Cub Cadet Mowers Any Good?

[dr_clyde]

Yes, I know, another lawn mower thread. I read some of the past threads on it, and they all pretty much in GJ fashion recommend either a ZTR or a top end garden tractor no matter what.

Anyway, I digress. My mom is looking for a riding lawn mower. Her old John Deere is starting to nickle and dime her on repairs and she wants something with an automatic trans (hydrostat vs traditional clutch).

She's in her early 60's and is retiring this year. She's not mechanically inclined, AT ALL. She's divorced, but her sister's husband John can help her with basic stuff. I live an hour and a half away, so I'm not easy to get there and help or I'd just bring my ZTR over and do it for her. More than likely John will be doing the actual mowing. But, I would like it to be something she can use if needed.

She's got an acre and a half, roughly, with some hills and trees. She doesn't want to spend a lot. It would be a stretch to get her to spend 2 grand I suspect. She mentioned $1000 and I think $1500 is more realistic on what's available.

I'm ok with used if the right machine comes along, but that's hard to do this time of year, and I would prefer something new with a warranty.

Bottom line, I need a reliable riding mower for about $1500. No garden tractors, no zero turns, nothing complicated. Just needs to mow, and it needs to start easily. She won't use it if she doesn't understand how it works. It was pulling teeth just to get her on the JD she has now.

My local outdoor power equipment dealer has a Cub Cadet xt1 lt42 for sale for $1499. I like this better than the other mowers I've seen in this price range. Cast iron front end and Kohler engine, plus dealer support.

I as a rule don't like buying low end equipment, but I do feel better about getting it from a dealer that I trust. I've bought a few big ticket items from this dealer, and they've taken care of me. Their service department is great and the sales staff is very good as well.

Is there any experience with Cubs of late, or does anyone have any better thoughts?

 

[PelicanPines]

Got an xt2 fab deck... love it. Mowers Direct online... shipped to my door... even put it in my garage. Needed to uncrate it myself ...

 

[bobcatdan]

In that price range I doubt you can do better. I'd suggest looking at simplicity, but I don't know if they can be had in that price range.

 

[Negen]

Cub cadet mowers if I recall correctly belong to the mtd group. You should be able to find craftsmen and Troy built versions of cub mowers in different price ranges . difference being mainly engines. Power more , Briggs or Honda. This was my experience earlier this year when I was shopping. Also they have brands you can order online that seem to me to normally be regional.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[bobcatdan]

Cub cadet mowers if I recall correctly belong to the mtd group. You should be able to find craftsmen and Troy built versions of cub mowers in different price ranges . difference being mainly engines. Power more , Briggs or Honda. This was my experience earlier this year when I was shopping. Also they have brands you can order online that seem to me to normally be regional.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

Cub is part of MTD or what became of MTD, I think they went under and are called something eles now. Either way cub is not the classic cub many think off in terms of high quailty yard equipment. That all said, cub is the high end offering of the MTD product line. While one can see many similarities between all the MTD products, cubs generally are a little better. At $1500 New, you are not getting top of the line from any name. With cub having an actual dealer support. That gives them an edge.

 

[kelpaso1]

Sure. My Cub Cadet has over 900 hr's and still going strong. I have a chance to buy a newer one from a guy that is selling his house and will be all over it. They are made by MTD but is their higher quality line of mowers.

 

[American Locomotive]

Cub Cadets are definitely MTD's top-end offering. But other manufacturers like Husqvarna or John Deere, or Toro/Wheel Horse also offer high-end mowers.

"Kohler Engine" doesn't mean much these days anymore. Kohler used two have one line of engine - the flathead K-Series. Then they expanded the lineup to their OHV Command series - also a very excellent engine. But Command engines were expensive, and mower manufacturers wanted the Kohler name, so they added the low-end cheap and cheesy Courage series that did a ton of reputation damage to the brand.

But money talks, and they've continued doing that even further now. Kohler has many different engine lines to suit just about every possible price point these days. They're all pretty much junk except for their "premium" Command Pro brand.

Basically, unless it's a Command Pro Kohler engine, it's not going to be any better than a Briggs and Stratton or even a chinese clone v-twin.

 

[dr_clyde]

Cub Cadets are definitely MTD's top-end offering. But other manufacturers like Husqvarna or John Deere, or Toro/Wheel Horse also offer high-end mowers.

"Kohler Engine" doesn't mean much these days anymore. Kohler used two have one line of engine - the flathead K-Series. Then they expanded the lineup to their OHV Command series - also a very excellent engine. But Command engines were expensive, and mower manufacturers wanted the Kohler name, so they added the low-end cheap and cheesy Courage series that did a ton of reputation damage to the brand.

But money talks, and they've continued doing that even further now. Kohler has many different engine lines to suit just about every possible price point these days. They're all pretty much junk except for their "premium" Command Pro brand.

Basically, unless it's a Command Pro Kohler engine, it's not going to be any better than a Briggs and Stratton or even a chinese clone v-twin.

Eehh, for the price, I highly doubt its anything but the cheaper one. But, I've been burnt so many times by the ****** Briggs that I avoid them when I can.

 

[kelpaso1]

I beg to differ. Like I said, mine has over 900 hr's on it and it is a Courage engine. I also have never fixed a Courage internal engine failure. But the way people DON"T maintain their ****, anything can break.

 

[vavet]

I've read it's take courage to own one of the Kohler Courage engines - I have no experience with them to back that up.
I did a lot of reading on mytractorforum.com a few years ago. Most of the folks there will point you to used, but the used they're talking about are great only if you want to tinker with it and end up with a pretty capable machine.
Keep an eye out for the units at the end of the line at HD and Lowe's. These are the ones that had some sort of rework and are usually marked down a couple hundred bucks.
I bought mine used with 2 hours on it through Craigslist. the guy I bought it from got a deal because it was reworked. He got it home and realized after the return period had expired that it wouldn't fit in his shed if he put a bagger unit on it...and he wanted a bagger. So he bought a smaller mower and listed this one on CL. It's an XT1 GT50. I'm going into my 3rd season with it. it's been terrific. I can't get the bluetooth hour meter to sync with the app on my phone...but it still cuts grass just fine.

 

[bobcatdan]

Cub Cadets are definitely MTD's top-end offering. But other manufacturers like Husqvarna or John Deere, or Toro/Wheel Horse also offer high-end mowers.

"Kohler Engine" doesn't mean much these days anymore. Kohler used two have one line of engine - the flathead K-Series. Then they expanded the lineup to their OHV Command series - also a very excellent engine. But Command engines were expensive, and mower manufacturers wanted the Kohler name, so they added the low-end cheap and cheesy Courage series that did a ton of reputation damage to the brand.

But money talks, and they've continued doing that even further now. Kohler has many different engine lines to suit just about every possible price point these days. They're all pretty much junk except for their "premium" Command Pro brand.

Basically, unless it's a Command Pro Kohler engine, it's not going to be any better than a Briggs and Stratton or even a chinese clone v-twin.

The wheel horse name has been dead for 20 years and I don't think Toro has really offered a tractor style mower in a number of years. As for kohler engines, it's all price point, a good twin cylinder kohler is over a grand. It's all a crapshoot at a $1500 price point.

 

[MoonRise]

In no particular order:

Cutting an acre and a half with a 42" deck is going to take a while. I'd recommend something with a bit bigger cutting deck just to cut down on the time required to do all that cutting.

Which unfortunately may mean a 'better' machine and also some more $$$$.

Unless for some sort of access reason, you have to stay with a 42" deck.

42" deck with 10% mowing overlap at 5.5 mph speed (listed top speed of the XT1) should ideally do 2.1 acres per hour.

Going at a mid speed of 3.5 mph (on any sort of 'mild' hill/slope, that is usually pretty fast most of the time IMO), cuts the mowing rate down to an 'ideal' (no stops, or turns, or slowing down for trees/obstacles, etc) 1.3 acres/hr.

Going to a 46" deck, an XT1 LT46 can theoretically do 2.3 acres/hr at 5.5 mph top speed and not quite 1.5 acres/hr at a 3.5 mph mid-speed.

Go to a 50" deck XT1 GT50 (mid-grade machine, but the next level Cub machine that goes at a faster top speed than the Cub LT machines which all top out at 5.5 mph) at 6.2 mph top speed, can theoretically do 2.8 acres/hr at that 6.2 mph and 1.6 acres/hr at a mid-speed of 3.5 mph.

Just an FYI on the theoretical cutting rates. Btw, that is just completely theoretical (from an app ). So no stopping or slowing or whatever. Slowing on hills or stopping or backing up or going around trees obviously make the cutting rate go down and the cutting time go up.

If you and Mom look into it and decide to stay with the 'smaller' cutting deck, no problem. Just as long as you are aware that a lawn tractor with that size deck will take a LOT longer to cut 1+ acres of grass.

Trying to get the app's theoretical cutting rate to match up a bit to the real world, my machine's 44" deck with a 10% cut overlap is supposed to be able to do 1.4 acres/hr at 3.5 mph per the app (about all I can generally go on my hill/slope). Real world, it take me about an hour to do maybe 1/3 acre (turns, trees, changing directions, hill/slope). No way can I go at the machine's top speed on my terrain. At 5th gear (yes, manual transmission) out of 6 total, I have unintentionally gotten onto two wheels on the 'flat' part of my slope going cross-slope. Down-slope, I'd end up crossing the sidewalk and the grass strip between the sidewalk and the curb and end up dropping off the curb before I could even stop. Pucker factor indeed! YMMV and all that. A continuously-variable speed hydrostatic trans might enable me to vary speeds a bit more, but only on certain parts of the terrain.

That machine is a single cylinder machine. I personally prefer a twin cylinder once you get up to 'bigger' engines. A little smoother generally than a single cylinder 'thumper'.

Again, all IMHO and FYI and all that.

 

[bobcatdan]

Ballparking this, but my mow time is one hour for 1.25 acres with a 61" deck so I'd say 1 1/2 hour with a 42"

 

[MoonRise]

The app I used calculates a 61" deck at 10% overlap doing a full 1.25 acres/hr was getting an average speed of 2.3 mph.

At that avg speed and the same 10% cut overlap, a 42" deck would do 0.88 acres/hr. So you'd be looking at ~2 hours, give or take, to cut 1.5 acres.

 

[jd_1138]

MIL bought a CC from a local dealer, and she likes it. Her neighbor uses it to mow her 2 acres and his 1 acre. He does it for free for use of it for his land. It is a few years old now and has the Kawasaki engine. I changed out the break in oil after a few hours of service and put in some synthetic oil.

 

[dr_clyde]

I don't really think Mom cares if it takes a bit longer.

I personally got a nice zero turn and cut my mowing from 2 hours to 45 min because I hate mowing.

She's got a 42" deck now, and I honestly think a bigger machine is a bit more intimidating and harder for her to maneuver around her flower beds and such. And I'm just making an educated guess in total acreage mowed. When I mowed it for her, I could get it done in maybe an hour and change. So maybe closer to an acre or so. Still not a ton of land to mow.

She's retired. Who cares if it take another 30 min lol.

 

[American Locomotive]

Eehh, for the price, I highly doubt its anything but the cheaper one. But, I've been burnt so many times by the ****** Briggs that I avoid them when I can.

That's my point. If it's not a Command Pro, it'll be just as ****** as any other engine on the market. Plus, it's a big single cylinder engine. I find that the big singles tend to be harder on belts, and not as smooth running as the V-twins.

The wheel horse name has been dead for 20 years and I don't think Toro has really offered a tractor style mower in a number of years. As for kohler engines, it's all price point, a good twin cylinder kohler is over a grand. It's all a crapshoot at a $1500 price point.

The Wheel Horse name hasn't been dead for over 20 years. Toro used the brand up until recently. I have a '98 Wheel Horse 269H, and it's been a solid little machine, with a nice Kohler Command engine.

But I just did some research, and it turns out Toro discontinued the Wheel Horse brand in 2007 - bummer. I was not aware of that.

I beg to differ. Like I said, mine has over 900 hr's on it and it is a Courage engine. I also have never fixed a Courage internal engine failure. But the way people DON"T maintain their ****, anything can break.

Courage engines blow up all the time - the single cylinder "twin cam" ones are infamous for puking their guts everywhere. Some Courage engines last the distance, some don't. Lots of QC and quality issues with those motors. They're a "value" engine.

 

[kelpaso1]

Courage engines blow up all the time - the single cylinder "twin cam" ones are infamous for puking their guts everywhere. Some Courage engines last the distance, some don't. Lots of QC and quality issues with those motors. They're a "value" engine.

Well I think that has to do with poor maintenance. I have been in the "lawn mower" business for 13 years and have never had to fix any internal engine problems unless someone ran it out of oil, or hit a rock and stopped the engine dead. Briggs, Tecumseh, Kholer, and even china clones are pretty reliable.

As someone who does this for a living, do you? I see so many hack repairs people do I just shake my head. People are stupid and is the reason I have a job.

 

[American Locomotive]

I've seen many, many blown up Courage engines. Lots of valve issues, lots of camshaft problems, lots of headgasket issues and don't forget the infamous Courage block cracking issue.

Just do a search for "Kohler Courage block crack", and you'll find page after page of complaints. It's not internal failure resulting in a cracked block. It's a running working engine will suddenly split the block, and start shooting oil out the gaping hole, while the engine is happily running away. "Poor maintenance" is not going to grenade a camshaft ACR mechanism or crack a block.

I'm not trying to necessarily hate on Kohler or the Courage engine. It's just not any better than any other engine on the market. There's a reason why Kohler is constantly renaming their low-end engines, while their premium "Command" engines have had the Command name for over 20 years.

 

[bobcatdan]

Personally I think Kawasaki are the best small engine, but doubt you are going to find one in a $1500 machine.

 

[kelpaso1]

Well you have your opinion as I. But you didn't answer my question. Do you work as a small engine mechanic full time, or just tool around with them? Helps to list your credentials.

 

[American Locomotive]

I have at one point in my life, not recently. I still keep in contact with people in the business.

I get you're trying to discredit me somehow, that's fine and dandy. But the Courage engines are Kohler's low-end value engines, as are the single cylinder "5400" series engines. They are not any better than any other low-end engine, and have significant issues regardless of whether or not you've personally experienced them.

The Courage V-Twins are basically "value" Command engines and are decent enough. The twins are a lot better than the Courage Single-Cylinders. Later Courage singles are better than earlier ones in regards to catastrophic failure, but introduce a lot of annoying things like hard to fix oil leaks.

I would spend the extra money to get a Kohler Command in my mower over a standard Briggs or Chinese motor. I wouldn't pay any premium or go out of my way to get a Courage/5400/7000 series motor over a standard Briggs or China motor. They're a nothing special motor.

 

[seanb02]

Personally I think Kawasaki are the best small engine, but doubt you are going to find one in a $1500 machine.

I always liked the older Kohler engines over the Briggs offerings in small equipment. Hadn't done any real research on newer engines, and went into the Husqvarna dealer last year looking to pick up a riding mower with the Kohler. Guy in there talked us into the Kawasaki. 46" mower deck, came to $1700. It has been excellent so far, a lot more torque output than similar HP rated engines from other makes. Only around 200 hours on it so far, but haven't had to do anything but basic maintenance at this point. At 200 hours a year will see how it is 5 years down the road.

 

[6PTsocket]

Cub cadet mowers if I recall correctly belong to the mtd group. You should be able to find craftsmen and Troy built versions of cub mowers in different price ranges . difference being mainly engines. Power more , Briggs or Honda. This was my experience earlier this year when I was shopping. Also they have brands you can order online that seem to me to normally be regional.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

MTD bought Cub from International Harvester. Those old I. H. Cubs are sought after. For years, MTD ran Cub Cadet as their premium brand and did not share any important components with their other brands. Today, Cub has a broader line. The lower end is probably no better than Troybuilt and Yardman and their other cheap stuff. They still make higher end models that are solid tractors but they are not cheap and never were. I am not familiar with the current models but my old 2145 from 1995, with shaft drive, bolted on wheels ( no C clip) ), cast front end, heavy gauge steel, bullet proof hydrostatic axle,14 hp Onan is still going strong. BTW, the low end John Deeres are made by MTD. There is a lot of that. Ariens tractors could be built by one company and the snow blowers by somebody else. Simplicity and Kubota are good brands. I would really have to look if I was in the market. There are a lot of tractor threads. The OP should post his question there. There are knowledgeable people here but probably more on one of those threads.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[70chevellegsp]

I'll come at this from another direction. You live in MI? Your mowing season is 25 +- weeks? 2 +- hours per week mowing, so probably less than 50 hours per year on the mower? If you have a $1,500 budget and the Cub suits your needs, go for it and be diligent with your maintenance. It should/could/may last many years (20 years will get you ~1000 hours on the engine). Sometimes decisions have to based on budget. There are definitely better, more durable units out there, but probably not for $1,500.

A side story - I bought a Craftsman lawn tractor in 1992 with a B&S engine. Middle of the road, probably around $900 new. I used it for 7 years and then sold to my wifes friend. It's still cutting today. Probably has around a 1000 hours in 26 years, but has been well maintained. Now, it was a simple tractor with a belt drive transmission, but it's been very reliable.

 

[kelpaso1]

I have at one point in my life, not recently. I still keep in contact with people in the business.

I get you're trying to discredit me somehow, that's fine and dandy. But the Courage engines are Kohler's low-end value engines, as are the single cylinder "5400" series engines. They are not any better than any other low-end engine, and have significant issues regardless of whether or not you've personally experienced them.

The Courage V-Twins are basically "value" Command engines and are decent enough. The twins are a lot better than the Courage Single-Cylinders. Later Courage singles are better than earlier ones in regards to catastrophic failure, but introduce a lot of annoying things like hard to fix oil leaks.

I would spend the extra money to get a Kohler Command in my mower over a standard Briggs or Chinese motor. I wouldn't pay any premium or go out of my way to get a Courage/5400/7000 series motor over a standard Briggs or China motor. They're a nothing special motor.

Sorry, I guess my post didn't come out right. It's just that you say they, and all other brands of engines are junk, but I have not seen that in my experience, unless they were poorly maintained or abused. But as for the rest of the mower, well that's another story.

 

[PBCampbell]

I seem to remember that the Courage engines had problems with the plastic cams failing when that series engine was first introduced. I haven't read about any such problems in the past decade or more though.

 

[finn]

MTD bought Cub from International Harvester. Those old I. H. Cubs are sought after. For years, MTD ran Cub Cadet as their premium brand and did not share any important components with their other brands. Today, Cub has a broader line. The lower end is probably no better than Troybuilt and Yardman and their other cheap stuff. They still make higher end models that are solid tractors but they are not cheap and never were. I am not familiar with the current models but my old 2145 from 1995, with shaft drive, bolted on wheels ( no C clip) ), cast front end, heavy gauge steel, bullet proof hydrostatic axle,14 hp Onan is still going strong. BTW, the low end John Deeres are made by MTD. There is a lot of that. Ariens tractors could be built by one company and the snow blowers by somebody else. Simplicity and Kubota are good brands. I would really have to look if I was in the market. There are a lot of tractor threads. The OP should post his question there. There are knowledgeable people here but probably more on one of those threads.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Bad information.

Deere makes their own low end 100 series lawn tractors in their Granville Tn. facility. MTD is a competitor, not a supplier to Deere.

 

[dnschmidt]

I live in the desert with stones for my yard. I therefore know nothing about this subject and prefer to keep it that way. My landscaper rakes them when he services my property. The golf club I use to belong to used Toro and the fairways were always nice.

 

[bobcatdan]

Bad information.

Deere makes their own low end 100 series lawn tractors in their Granville Tn. facility. MTD is a competitor, not a supplier to Deere.

It's muddy waters in my book. On the cheap Deere's, there are a number of things with the frames that is very MTDish. At bare minimum there is some engineering shared there. Looking at the two, it's not hard to imagine they come from the same place even if they are made in different factories. Most of Deere's true lawn and garden equipment is made at the Horicon Works.

 

[bimmer1980]

For the price point, the Cub seems to be not a bad deal...

While I personally don't have any experience with the Cub, I can say, don't buy the low end Toro/MTD mowers..... my B-in-law has a 42" Toro with the belt drive "variable" speed. It uses two belts and a two-sheave pulley system to get the variable speed. They work ok, but definitely not as nice as hydro. The belts are a real pain to change!!! It also just hopped the belt off when he was turning and burning....guess who had to go up and get the belt back on?? I have also had to put a new motor in it as it blew the connecting rod....That was about $550... Mower was about $1000 or $1200 new....

The mother in law has the 38" hydro Toro and that works ok...other than the strip of uncut grass in the middle....

The other thing to look out for with the two-blade decks is how much overlap is on the blades. Hydro Toro noted above will leave a strip of grass in the middle if you go to fast and if the blades are slightly worn... There is not much margin there....

I like my Deere F525 for maneuverability and reach in and around trees....

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Honestly if she's anything like most people get something similar to what she has, avoid the retaining. If what she has is/was a decent quality Deere I'd go through it well. Shouldn't take more than a few hundred bucks to address all of the nickle and dime type items.

 

[MadMechMaster]

For what it's worth, I am starting my third season with my 42" XT1. No big complaints.

I do hate their version of an R key. Pain to get out when removing the deck, but they do lock on. I guess that you'll be sharpening the blades for her though.

 

[bpjr]

I posted about Cubs a while back. Last year I was at a sod farm here in Florida...100s or 1000s of acres of nothing but sod fields. Cub Cadet had maybe 50 different mowers, riders, walk behinds, etc, out there cutting the grass. They weren't being gentle either and a sod farm employee said their farm was a testing site for Cub Cadet. It raised my opinion of Cub Cadet for sure.

The internet is full of posts on Kohler Courages with major problems...years and years of owners experiencing this. 30-60 yrs back anything Kohler meant durability but not now.

Last but not least. I contacted John Deere last yr and received a note back saying they built every mower here in the USA and if it says John Deere its the same no matter who sells it.

 

[finn]

It's muddy waters in my book. On the cheap Deere's, there are a number of things with the frames that is very MTDish. At bare minimum there is some engineering shared there. Looking at the two, it's not hard to imagine they come from the same place even if they are made in different factories. Most of Deere's true lawn and garden equipment is made at the Horicon Works.

Not muddy at all. Deere transferred production of some or all of their ZTR production from Horicon to Greenville, where they make the 100 Series lawn tractors. The transfer was about four years ago, so the 100 series has been thereat least that long, or longer.

There is a bunch of the MTD/Deere bs on the internet but not one single reliable source that can confirm which Deere models are made in which MTD plant (because there aren’t any). All the MTD sourcing Deere tractors is hearsay.

I verified my information with a search that led to an official Deere press release announcing the ZTR transfer to the Tennessee Deere plant that makes the 100 series.

 

[1990 Grand Wag]

Get an older IH Cub or one of the older MTD "cyclops" cubs with low hours, or an MTD cub 3000 series! Let me add my $0.02 cents about the Kohler Courage engines.....................garbage, avoid at all cost!!!

 

[jonesg]

Honestly if she's anything like most people get something similar to what she has, avoid the retaining. If what she has is/was a decent quality Deere I'd go through it well. Shouldn't take more than a few hundred bucks to address all of the nickle and dime type items.

Agree, rehab is a lot cheaper.
I'd prefer older to the newer stuff.

 

[seber]

This should clear up the JD controversy.
http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractors/001/0/6/1062-john-deere-d100.html

 

[bobcatdan]

Not muddy at all. Deere transferred production of some or all of their ZTR production from Horicon to Greenville, where they make the 100 Series lawn tractors. The transfer was about four years ago, so the 100 series has been thereat least that long, or longer.

There is a bunch of the MTD/Deere bs on the internet but not one single reliable source that can confirm which Deere models are made in which MTD plant (because there aren’t any). All the MTD sourcing Deere tractors is hearsay.

I verified my information with a search that led to an official Deere press release announcing the ZTR transfer to the Tennessee Deere plant that makes the 100 series.

All I'm saying is if you work on MTD and cheap Deere's there are a lot of similarities. It would really seem that enengineers from both companies got together at least for brainstorming a time or two.

 

[bobcatdan]

I'll add I'm not just referring to the D series. Go back to the L series of the mid 2000's, very similar to MTD. The lower end units before those were general just simpler examples of the higher units. Also to be clear, while I think designs are very similar to the point they could have been designed in conjuction, no where am I saying the two roll down the same line.