cure and seal

[stealman]

I am planning to place a integral colored concrete parking area, patio and side walk at my shop. I would like to use a cure and seal product to let it cure properly and so it is sealed as well. Do these products work well? Can anyone recommend a good product? And what is the best sealer to use afterwords for long term sealing?
Thanks

 

[Shea]

The cure and seal products work OK, but there are better penetrating and acrylic sealers that will deliver more protection and durability than a cure and seal product. I'm sure you will get recommendations from some vendors here as well as other people who have done just what you are doing.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Steal: definitely a useful product. However the sealer portion is usually not as stout as a stand alone sealer. If you go this route make sure you get a uv safe sealer(non-yellowing).

We have one to offer: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/legacy-curesealuv-p-258.html

 

[stealman]

The sealer portion is not as stout as a stand alone sealer. Will I be able to seal over the cure and seal with something better in a year without problems?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I would suggest spraying the slab down with a densifier first. This will help with the cure, slowing the dehydration of the slab.( our Hd36)

Apply the better (acrylic style) sealer a few days later.( our hd6600)

 

[stealman]

If I use a densifier as a cure, is that all I have to do? No Plastic cover and no water?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

It slows the hydration process down the same way the cure/sealer does.
It creates a partial barrier for the moisture.

If you had both you would slow it down too much causing surface issues. Pick one or the other.

Also...

Should you choose the plastic/water method, you can seal a few days post cure with HD-6600 to give you the finish you desire.

 

[stealman]

Legacy
You say use hd6600 for sealer. This is outside flatework. Your site says 6600 is for interior. Do you mean hd 6500?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Yes, sorry. HD6500 for the exterior work.

 

[stealman]

Does anyone else have experience with using a densifier as a curing agent? I like the idea, but cant find anyone else that will recommend this or knows anything about it except for Legacy. I would like to get a consensus on this technique.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Steal:
I forgot to mention that many "cure hardeners/sealers" are lithium or potassium based. The same ingredients found in most densifiers.

They all lock-in moisture, increasing hydration.

 

[stealman]

Thanks for the help. It sounds like it will make the concrete better. I am apprehensive though because I cant find a single person except for you who will say that it will work. Have you done it? It is sill pretty hot and very dry here.

 

[Shea]

Stealman,

It's not unusual for concrete contractors to use densifiers for curing and finishing. Sometimes the product is just marketed differently.

As Scotty said, many "cure hardeners/sealers" are lithium or potassium based. The densifier will aid in the hydration of the surface by reacting with the lime to help slow down the surface drying. This is what helps to prevent surface cracking, crazing, and it aids with troweling. Not to mention that it also hardens the surface, becomes a water repellant, and prevents concrete dusting.

 

[Truk Snave]

A densifier is NOT a proper cure. Legacy Industrial says that is cures concrete the same as a cure and seal....not true. If densifiers cured concrete properly then they would meet the ASTM C-309 spec. They do not. You can list any product as a curing agent!...a piece of paper can be a curing agent...that doesn't mean anything!

Cure and Seals that meet the ASTM C-309 and ASTM C-1315 should be used on freshly placed concrete for a proper cure. You can also use a cure that meets the C-309 and after the 28 day hydration process remove the cure and install a sealer!

There is a ton of misinformation on this subject....do the research if you don't believe me

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Truk:

ASTM International (ASTM), originally known as the American Society for Testing and Materials, is an international standards organization that develops and publishes voluntary consensus technical standards for a wide range of materials, products, systems, and services. ...

They are not a lab that tests anything. Like ANSI standards the products are only as good as the SELF TESTING by the manufacturer which is suggested but not done. Furthermore, many of the volunteers have an interest in what is and what is not a "curing agent".

Densifiers slow hydration. A plastic sheet slows hydration. Keeping a slab wet slows hydration.

And please tell us all how you remove a cure. It is a penetrating product, it cannot be removed without jacking the concrete to dust.

 

[Truk Snave]

Every architect, engineer,and spec writer use the ASTM standards for these products. The products are tested at a independent lab to meet or exceed those standards. In order to meet that standard all products have to be send out for testing, not in house testing. The entire concrete industry operates around these two specs when it comes to curing and sealing.


Do you have any lab testing to show moisture loss/retention for concrete with your densifier applied? I am guessing no because it would never pass as a cure. I went to your website but can't find any information that lists your densifier as a curing compound. http://legacyindustrial.net/images/HD39 Tech Data.pdf No information on moisture retention. Kool-aid is a curing aid! You can put any product on concrete and call it a curing aid. It is NOT a concrete curing compound.


If you don't want to use a cure & seal and you opt to cure and seal in two steps:

There are several ways to remove a cure.

A: a dissipating resin cure. (dissolves after and extend period of UV exposure, abrasion, and other natural environmental exposures

B: a curing compound that removes easily with mild detergent and light scrubbing...such as ChemMasters EasyStrip Cure

C: Acrylic cure and seals are film formers that lye on the surface...they do not penetrate like a penetrating sealer. i.e. silane or siloxane All acrylic film forming sealers and cure & seals can be stripped with a sealer stripper. i.e. soy gel. Penetrating sealers (silane and Siloxane) cannot be stripped.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

ASTM does not check products or the testing methods used by manufacturers. Again, it is a group of volunteers suggesting a test. I can put ASTM on my product, if I choose, and it would be your burden to prove it's not. Architects spec. everything under the sun and that does not make it right either.
I have seen epoxy, densifier and cure sealer in the same spec for the same floor, countless times. Is that correct? Does that make sense? Architects are not floor specialists. They rely on manufacturers data and the owners preference to establish the spec.

We don't cater to the mass-contractors market and therefore we don't advertise a "spec" suggested by you or ASTM. It's not our niche.

Lastly, densifiers slow the hydration process. Google it! It is one of many ways to achieve this. If you don't trust this statement, it is your option not to purchase it.

 

[Truk Snave]

ASTM does not check products or the testing methods used by manufacturers. Again, it is a group of volunteers suggesting a test. I can put ASTM on my product, if I choose, and it would be your burden to prove it's not.

ASTM sets the standards....yes The testing comes from an independent lab...not the manufacturers testing and not an ASTM lab. But you know this since you work for the manufacturer. If you don't have your products tested to back up your claim then you are not confident in you products


Architects spec. everything under the sun and that does not make it right either.
I have seen epoxy, densifier and cure sealer in the same spec for the same floor, countless times. Is that correct? Does that make sense? Architects are not floor specialists. They rely on manufacturers data and the owners preference to establish the spec.

Yes they rely on manufacturers data....the same data that you claim so yes they get it wrong sometimes.

We don't cater to the mass-contractors market and therefore we don't advertise a "spec" suggested by you or ASTM. It's not our niche.

You wouldn't meet any curing spec for the densifier, this is why you don't market to the "mass-contractor" or commercial construction industry. Ashford formula sells their densifier as a cure...they know its not. They list it as a "curing aid" Its all about the verbiage...technically anything is a curing aid. Doesn't mean it actually properly cures the concrete..

Lastly, densifiers slow the hydration process. Google it! It is one of many ways to achieve this. If you don't trust this statement, it is your option not to purchase it.

Densifiers may hold in a tiny bit more water than nothing but they don't have enough moisture retention to properly cure the concrete. The only way you can get away with using it is because it hardens the cream of the concrete, bring it back to the hardness that it would have been if properly cured. Its easy to pull the wool over a lot of peoples eyes. I work for a concrete chemical manufacturer.....I know the ********, I deal with it everyday

 

[Ryan]

Good god man... Its concrete paint. What is it with floor guys always arguing?

 

[Truk Snave]

Haha! Its more important for the longevity of you concrete! Why spend the money on concrete if your not going to install it right? Properly curing concrete is the key to long lasting concrete.

I don't like people who give out misinformation. If you are going to sell products to a customer, you need to make sure you are giving them the right material. I see so many people get screwed because someone sells them the wrong product

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Truk Snave: I'll keep this short and sweet.

You told us all a whole bunch when you revealed who you work for. Big chemical companies, like yours, have a huge participation in things like ASTM, influencing the standards to make your product the only answer.

Your outrageous posts make sense now.

We stand behind our claims and our reputation will speak for itself.