curiosity- Concrete posts/columns instead of wood???

[ndm]

Concrete posts/columns instead of wood?

I have been curious for a long time of why couldnt a person do concrete columns in place of the posts in a Post frame constructed Shop?

Why? well in my simple mind, the concrete would be well, stronger and would not get eaten up by the elements as easily as the treated wood.

Now dont get me wrong, I can think of quite a few advantages of wood to include cost, flexibility, time, etc.. I just think to myself, well since concrete is used for ground contact in so many ways and it lasts a lifetime, then it theoretically would work as the post in a post frame constructed structure.

I also realize that a 4X4 wood post might have to turn into 6X6 concrete posts due to maybe lateral forces on the concrete post...but maybe not?

Anyone have any thoughts on this subject?

I am not planning anything. I am just pondering the subject and have been for a while.

 

[tjdux]

Perma columns. Google it.

But basically its a hybrid of concrete columns. Price wise wood is far cheaper and plenty strong for a building but wood doesn't do well underground. So perma columns are concrete underground and little above then wood post the remaining way up.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[red61cj5]

x2. Perma columns are the same size as the post on top of them. According to the literature, they are made of 10,000 psi concrete, and have metal reinforcement through them all the way down. Reasonably priced, and a pretty good product in my opinion

 

[Tmart86]

Doesn't Morton buildings already offer something similar to the perma column.

 

[firebirdparts]

This'll blow your mind, but wood is actually just as strong in compression as concrete, plus it's a lot tougher. There's just not much reason not to use wood in a lot of places. On the other hand, Dave Barry wrote, "Wood is the world's most popular building material because it is one of the few materials that can both rot and burn." And that doesn't even consider termites.

Engineering is all about performance vs. cost. Building a building for yourself is quite different. How you feel about it is worth something.

 

[ptgarcia]

Everything is built on concrete out here, whether it be on concrete footings, slabs, columns, whatever. I can't say I've ever been involved with a project where wood posts were buried instead of bolted to concrete columns, and I've been in the industry for 29 years now.

 

[matt_i]

Imo its about cost which is sort of driven by concrete's penchant for cracking.

You can see the horror in a person's eyes when they realized their unreinforced concrete column is cracking on an oblique/skew plane all the way thru the cross-section. The posts have to support moments in the post frame and the cracks support no tension...

Then there comes the idea of a steel reinforcement, could be more expensive, could be tensioned within a sleeve.

How to attach to concrete? tapcons, epoxy, wedge anchors come to mind. There are pre--made sonotubes which promise nice exterior finishes if one carefully vibrates the concrete. Sort of hard to build with round columns though. The concrete could be square but that would mean making a form out of 4 pieces of wood and casting it.

All of the mods seem more expensive from a labor + material aspect than a 4x or 6x post, which also has the nice property of holding nails and screws without drilling.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Doesn't Morton buildings already offer something similar to the perma column.

Yes they have their own patented Morton Foundation System that has a threaded rod running through the column to adjust the height of the column prior to securing it.

 

[6768rogues]

Concrete column bases are frequently used for steel buildings. Not a big deal, they work.

 

[kbs2244]

All structural concrete columns need a reinforcing rebar tube inside them.
Concrete is great for compression strength, weather resistance, pest resistance, etc.
But it has no tension strength.

It needs through steel, fastened at each end, for attaching roofs, even road slabs, against wind lift.

 

[dutchgray]

They used to build a lot of agricultural barn frames built here out of reinforced concrete, columns and the roof structure, held together with very large bolts. Google Atcost barn,
We have demolished a few and even dismantled one so it could be rebuilt, needed a 50mm wrench from memory for the bolts.

 

[Skunkape]

I came to this crossroads early on when I was planning my shop. My conclusion? I won't be around in 50 years to have to deal with it. Pole barn it is.

 

[ishiboo]

There is a farm near here with an old fence that circles what I would guess is over a hundred acres. The fence posts are concrete, and all of them look in beautiful shape.

I think perma columns are the best option. A fully concrete pole would be very heavy to work with, difficult to attach things to, etc.

 

[73RR]

Another option would be to set a steel column in the hole and fill-er-up with concrete. It will be around for a very long time. Easy enough to weld mounting tabs for what-ever stuff. Inexpensive? No.

 

[acer66]

Did not know that these exist and this one looks pretty cool.

 

[PurdueSD]

I have a Morton building going up right now. They've taken the concrete column idea several steps ahead. Bottom of the column has a screw jack to adjust the height. They use a 5' long allen wrench on a drill to adjust height through the top after its set in the hole. All the columns end up exactly the same height. They pour concrete off a truck in every hole. No concrete cookies. The concrete posts come pre drilled for attaching their wood sill brackets. Its a neat deal!

View media item 72467
View media item 72496

 

[ishiboo]

I have a Morton building going up right now. They've taken the concrete column idea several steps ahead. Bottom of the column has a screw jack to adjust the height. They use a 5' long allen wrench on a drill to adjust height through the top after its set in the hole. All the columns end up exactly the same height. They pour concrete off a truck in every hole. No concrete cookies. The concrete posts come pre drilled for attaching their wood sill brackets. Its a neat deal!

That looks like quite the setup! IMO though since that's pretty much the Cadillac of pole barn posts, they should be putting on composite grade boards with that setup as well and not more PT in ground contact.

 

[PurdueSD]

That looks like quite the setup! IMO though since that's pretty much the Cadillac of pole barn posts, they should be putting on composite grade boards with that setup as well and not more PT in ground contact.

Hah, we were just talking about that. Composite boards don't have any stegth to them. Decks are built over PT and you have to even shrink the joist spacing down to 12". Im. sure somebody will come up with something for that next.

Morton is definitely more no doubt. I'm incredibly happy with them so far though.