current wiring project at work, thought i'd share.

[Kracin]

this is for a 200 ton stamtec press. full wiring job from scratch, new cabinet, new wire runs. we are on the last week of the project and it should be goin in soon.

been too busy to take a lot of other pics, but i might grab a few of the press and some other parts of the project, we just started disassembling the other press it's replacing to get ready for the move soon.

for size reference, this press has a footprint of about 10x8, and is about 15' tall.

 

[ADSR]

wow! I guess you can throw the KISS principle out the window!

That's crazy!

 

[1/2 Cup]

Thanks for sharing, I can really appreciate the work that's gone into to that control panel.

Keep the pics coming. Well done.

Regards

 

[jerryd68]

Thanks for sharing, I can really appreciate the work that's gone into to that control panel.

Keep the pics coming. Well done.

Regards

Hey that looks very familiar, I have built many control cabinets using compact logix, contrologix, PLC-5, SLC, etc... Actually to the KISS this is fairly simply compared to how things used to be done. Once you understand how a logic controller operates and what the controller can do then it becomes much simpler than hard wired circuits.

 

[Kracin]

Hey that looks very familiar, I have built many control cabinets using compact logix, contrologix, PLC-5, SLC, etc... Actually to the KISS this is fairly simply compared to how things used to be done. Once you understand how a logic controller operates and what the controller can do then it becomes much simpler than hard wired circuits.

this very much.

it may look like a lot, but i'll grab a picture of the terminal strip with all the input/outputs on it, but it beats relay logic any day.

the best way to put it is you have everything hooked up to the plc for control power. when something makes or breaks it allows a signal voltage (either 24VDC or 110VAC in this case) to make its way back to the plc, causing the plc to see that input as ON, or 1, and you use those inputs in your program to make the logic for how it runs.

once everything is hooked up, there is no need to change things, you simply go and modify your plc. all wires stay as those specific inputs, and you can make those inputs do different things at that point.

 

[Bluearmflames]

Are you using the ASI interface for photo eyes? I just finished two panels for an in house processing system that we designed. It's based on schnieder electrics premium processors. Our company does both allen bradley and modicon...

 

[tdkkart]

Looks like most of the electrical cabinets I open at work. RARELY do we have a problem with a PLC, more often blow fuses or tripped overloads, usually from operator screw-ups.
Occasionally a motor problem will pop up., but that's pretty rare too.

 

[rockwithjason]

are the sola power supplies redundant? we were using them for a while but then we went to rino power supplies with the redundancy module. I really should learn about the allen Bradley platform, we use modicon quantum and m340 here running unitypro

 

[fuzzytek]

What brand plc are you using?

 

[fuzzytek]

Very nice by the way. I can't get enough of seeing stuff like this.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Ok, I have a question now, What's the calculator/label maker looking thing ?

 

[rockwithjason]

it's a label maker that brady puts out. they are nice units. i believe that is an allen bradley plc

 

[APEowner]

Nice work. I just opened a cabinet the other day that all the wires the same color and without labels.

 

[jeff000]

Looking good, I love making new control panels, sometimes, lol. Letting a panel shop make the panel is nice sometimes too.
Why do you have AC and DC in the same panduit?
Doesn't look like you have any analog inputs, but still a good idea to keep them separated.

Looks like a few wire labels missing yet too. The new Brady shrink labels last a lot longer than their stickers too.

 

[Kracin]

Its coming along, we actually finished the cabinet and all on the other side of the plant, we are reinstalling everything again now in place of a press that was already in production. Pictures for now, ill post some updates and details when I get off work, busy day ahead

last pictures is cabinet in place and rerrunning the conduit and wire runs from the cabinet

 

[Kracin]

Its a compactlogix plc from ab, pics attached.

We havent had any issues running the 24v together, we do stay away from putting the 480 away from any of the control wiring as much as possible. But we have 480, 120 and 24dc in this cabinet.

480 is obviously for the various motors, 120 for the master start circuit and a few minor things like fans. One output card, and devicenets. Outlets of course too.

24 is mostly for the inputs. And a few 24 outputs for powerflex 4 units

 

[Kracin]

Quick size reference, was on top finishing the main motor and one junction box on top, feet next to the crank while I was landing wires

 

[shocker998md]

Wild work. I hate wiring

 

[Kracin]

Wild work. I hate wiring

Its not so bad until you pull 30 wires through a conduit and the engineer in charge of the project changes his mind on something and you need to add a few more of a color you didnt have spare lol. That and not having the proper parts in stock for the job

 

[Premium08]

Nice work, from one maintenance man to another. Wish I could've had some projects like that at work, but I put my two weeks in today.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[NUTTSGT]

it's a label maker that brady puts out. they are nice units. i believe that is an allen bradley plc

Thanks, it looks like a nice and expensive little unit.

 

[garboui]

how many hours was that, got a final wire/connection count?

 

[ddawg16]

PanelView Plus 700 touchscreen.

Newer series of CompactLogix....requires ver 21 or higher of RS5000.

I don't really care for those Sola's....I use AB most of the time...if I really need some umph, I go Lambda. Sola's are over priced.

Need to work on those wires on the door....in most places that would not fly. Wires need to be attached with sticky backs and you need a service loop at the hinge. The wires need to run parallel with the hinge so when you open and close the door, the wires twist instead of bend. You also need some protective wrap on the bundle near the hinge.

This is one of my panels with a PV 1200



And the inside.



I need to find some with the gutter covers off.

One little suggestion on the panel wiring in the gutters....put in what is called a service loop. So instead of doing a home run from point to point, you put a loop of wire inside the gutter before you land it. This gives a bit more 'wiggle' room in the event changes need to be made in the field.

I'll dig up some pics off my work puter in the morning.

And please understand I'm not ragging on you....just offering some advice. No one is perfect the first time around...you don't want to know how many mistakes I've made over the years.

 

[Kracin]

Thanks, its not complete yet though, notice the two other missing emt spots on top, just put them In place. There is more stuff coming tomorrow including the sticky back zip tie holders for the door , thats as far as it will open too, so theres no worry of the wired being pulled or rubbed by the door. The other box on the press is right behind the main cab door in thay picture


I appreciate the advice though, another cabinet I did the door similar to what you mentioned, to minimize the damage to wires if it gets opened enough or if someone swings it open too hard by accident. With this particular one I agree I could have made the wires for the door a bit longer to allow for more manipulation though

 

[Kracin]

Also, the extra wire for changes is located in the LBs and boxes before the wire comes into the cabinet, so there is more wires, plus at least 4 spare wires per emt in case of additions or changes

 

[AndeiH]

Hey guys what do you do for a living? I'm looking to change careers and I love motor control and PLC circuits.

Thanks

 

[ddawg16]

Hey guys what do you do for a living? I'm looking to change careers and I love motor control and PLC circuits.

Thanks

It can go by several names...industrial controls, factory automation, etc.

Look for a local PLC supply house. Allen Bradley, GE, etc. They can give you the names of local fabrication shops.

No, I'll be very honest...without experience, don't expect to start off with a nice wage. Good panel guys take a year of more to train. You start off learning how to wire panels..then learn how to program PLC's...then move on to VFD's.

In most cases, it usually involves long hours and travel. But you get to see some neat ****.

 

[ddawg16]

I mentioned I'd post a pic of how the wires should be done on a door...

Here is one example. Notice how the wires are in a loop and then parallel the door hinge? This way, when you open and close the door, the wire bundle does more twisting than bending.

 

[ddawg16]

And here is a pic of how we do 'service loops'. You end up with a bit more wiggle room on the wires.

We we do the wiring for the PLC cards, cut all the wires a bit longer than needed....wire up the PLC card first with it off the chassis...then attach...dress wires and terminate into the terminal blocks.

 

[MFolks]

Panduit wire/cable runs? They sure make wiring easy.

 

[Kracin]

And here is a pic of how we do 'service loops'. You end up with a bit more wiggle room on the wires.

We we do the wiring for the PLC cards, cut all the wires a bit longer than needed....wire up the PLC card first with it off the chassis...then attach...dress wires and terminate into the terminal blocks.

looks good, the extra wire running with them though may serve to make them look a bit more messy though in the cabinets we make.

i thought you were talking about different outgoing wires and such. not the actual plc side of the terminal strip. in that case, how often do you find yourselves changing that side of the strip though?

Inputs 0-15 will be landed on the same spot on the strip, and go out to the same components. any changes made happen in the plc, and added components go on the spare wires and are ran after the fact. i don't think i see too many times where it would be handy to have all that extra wire for that side of the plc.

 

[Kracin]

Hey guys what do you do for a living? I'm looking to change careers and I love motor control and PLC circuits.

Thanks

that depends on where you go and what you want to do. ddawgs description sounds like the people who would be fabricating machines meant for production facilities not affiliated with the people who make the machines.

where i work we do a bit of everything which puts us inside cabinets doing new wiring as well, and doing some plc coding, but typically most of the plc coding is done by engineering and we end up doing the troubleshooting for startup to get the bugs worked out.

It can go by several names...industrial controls, factory automation, etc.

Look for a local PLC supply house. Allen Bradley, GE, etc. They can give you the names of local fabrication shops.

No, I'll be very honest...without experience, don't expect to start off with a nice wage. Good panel guys take a year of more to train. You start off learning how to wire panels..then learn how to program PLC's...then move on to VFD's.

In most cases, it usually involves long hours and travel. But you get to see some neat ****.

where i'm at, none of us are professionals at doing panel wiring, i work for a certain giant in modular store shelving. and there are a lot of machines that get bought as bare machines that we end up doing everything for to make work. we take care of all of the in house maintenance, as well as the in house repairs, project work, electrical, pneumatics, plumbing, welding, hydraulics, PLC, VFD, servo drives. pretty much everything, so it's more of a jack of all trades master of few.

the cabinet that i was doing right now is the second one i've had to do, and the first one was just a half. so i'm far from a master at it. so i appreciate the tips ddawd.

we get to do it all because we even make machines in house that are built for a special purpose, ones that just can't be bought because no one makes them.

it's an interesting job for sure, one day could be a huge wiring project, another day you could be tearing down a ram and flywheel to overhaul a press, another day you could be building a structure for a new assembly area, and then at the end of the week you'll deal with production machines going down and spend a lot of time troubleshooting.


as for pay, it isn't bad, but it isn't awesome. ranges between 45-75k depending on your "level"

 

[jeff000]

Its not so bad until you pull 30 wires through a conduit and the engineer in charge of the project changes his mind on something and you need to add a few more of a color you didnt have spare lol. That and not having the proper parts in stock for the job

Engineers.... ugh. They should need a year in the field before they can have any input on anything in the field. If they "engineer" something to need a 1" pipe, I use 1 1/4. And I never use 1/2" unless there isn't room for 3/4".

But in the field when you are trying to get something to work, red lining the drawings is what happens if the wire is the wrong color or something like that. When you are flown in on a helicopter sometimes anything can be an color, lol. I've got a few red grounds/bonds out there, white negatives, etc.
I've pulled spare wires out from other panels in the area to fix things. Hell I have a #2 from a set of jumper cables being used in a panel out there. lol

Thanks, its not complete yet though, notice the two other missing emt spots on top, just put them In place. There is more stuff coming tomorrow including the sticky back zip tie holders for the door , thats as far as it will open too, so theres no worry of the wired being pulled or rubbed by the door. The other box on the press is right behind the main cab door in thay picture


I appreciate the advice though, another cabinet I did the door similar to what you mentioned, to minimize the damage to wires if it gets opened enough or if someone swings it open too hard by accident. With this particular one I agree I could have made the wires for the door a bit longer to allow for more manipulation though

When drilling into a complete (ish) panel I like using those magnetic parts holding dishes you can get for a couple bucks, nothing like having that ninja fleck end up in the exact wrong spot for power up or in a live box.
And the main reason for keeping the wire tight to the door is so that when billy joe bob the red neck opens it up to see why something isn't working he doesn't snag a wire on something in his pocket or whatever else, and to keep the weight of the wire off the terminations.

Hey guys what do you do for a living? I'm looking to change careers and I love motor control and PLC circuits.

Thanks

Up here you would be an electrician working on the panels, or if in a panel shop then a labourer. Instrument techs would be in some panels sometimes too. Automation and controls are generally Electricians.
In automations and controls as a Jman you could make between 80-200k here. As a panel guy in a shop I would say you would top out around 80, but that would be like head guy, more like 60k for most.

I am an Electrician, and while I seldom make large panels from scratch (I'm too expensive, they contract that out) I do a lot of field rewire/changes/fixes. And have done a few major rebuilds.

I spend the last week rewiring for a PLC upgrade at a facility. The facility outage should have only been 2 days, but the guy they originally had out to do the job tore every single wire out and the old plc, and then left. On the 4th day I was called in and told I had negative 2 days to get it back up and running..... I had the plant running basically in manual in a few hours just hacked together painfully gross. And then ended up with about this.
The PLC side looks much nicer, but has ip's and other information I can't post on the net, lol.

 

[garboui]

Engineers.... ugh. They should need a year in the field before they can have any input on anything in the field. If they "engineer" something to need a 1" pipe, I use 1 1/4. And I never use 1/2" unless there isn't room for 3/4".

Dont clump us all in. Ive been on both ends and design as such. I can have equal rants about collaborative projects with other engineers. so far all my panels have been built about 30/70 by me.

In automations and controls as a Jman you could make between 80-200k here. As a panel guy in a shop I would say you would top out around 80, but that would be like head guy, more like 60k for most.

where are you from, your sig does not say. for this pay id gladly leave eng.

 

[jeff000]

Dont clump us all in. Ive been on both ends and design as such. I can have equal rants about collaborative projects with other engineers. so far all my panels have been built about 30/70 by me.





where are you from, your sig does not say. for this pay id gladly leave eng.

There are some good engineers, but they are few and far between. I've worked with some pretty pompous engineers. If I have the items in my hands and say they do not fit, I don't care that your math says they fit, because they don't fit if they don't fit.


I'm in Edmonton Alberta, I'm an electrician and 2nd year Instrumentation tech. I'll make around 160 this year, and will have taken 6 weeks off or so vacation. If I wanted to I could make 200+ pretty easy but would require more out of town work than I want.

 

[garboui]

not to OT any more, but I take that its a lot of oil and gas work?

 

[JDon99]

I have been in the maintenance side of things for 10 years now. We mainly use ControlLogix5000s on our larger equipment and SLCs on the smaller stuff, some MicroLogix here and there, most of the larger systems use DeviceNet. Those service loops can be nice but once the wire trays have been gone through by a bunch of goons, it can turn into a mess.

The current-day automation sure does beat the old relay logic from back in the day. We have some machines that still run on all relay logic and I have been telling them to let me convert one over to a PLC, they just don't want to spend the money.

 

[ddawg16]

not to OT any more, but I take that its a lot of oil and gas work?

Nope.....That is only a small fraction of the business.

 

[Kracin]

I have been in the maintenance side of things for 10 years now. We mainly use ControlLogix5000s on our larger equipment and SLCs on the smaller stuff, some MicroLogix here and there, most of the larger systems use DeviceNet. Those service loops can be nice but once the wire trays have been gone through by a bunch of goons, it can turn into a mess.

The current-day automation sure does beat the old relay logic from back in the day. We have some machines that still run on all relay logic and I have been telling them to let me convert one over to a PLC, they just don't want to spend the money.

we have all kinds of different units as well. slc500 , micrologix, GE Fanuc

it seems to be whatever the engineer feels like at the time, but it turns into a pain to keep track of them all and the way they are all different.




and i agree, extra wire is nice until one wrong person gets into your cabinet, and then it ends up a damn rats nest of wires because they tore off the covers to everything, pulled wires out to trace instead of neatly tugging wires to find landing points. then they throw it all back in haphazardly or not at all and leave it... PITA when the wrong guy works on stuff.

 

[1/2 Cup]

we have all kinds of different units as well. slc500 , micrologix, GE Fanuc

it seems to be whatever the engineer feels like at the time, but it turns into a pain to keep track of them all and the way they are all different.




and i agree, extra wire is nice until one wrong person gets into your cabinet, and then it ends up a damn rats nest of wires because they tore off the covers to everything, pulled wires out to trace instead of neatly tugging wires to find landing points. then they throw it all back in haphazardly or not at all and leave it... PITA when the wrong guy works on stuff.

I agree as well, its my pet peeve too.

Regards