Cutler hammer switch wiring

[lafester]

My South bend heavy 10 has a coolant pump but it is 230v only. I got a deal on a 115v model and want to use the same switch. Not sure what goes where on this one... Do I just eliminate the red wire? Where to ground?

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[mm08822]

What is the nameplate data from the 120v motor?

Are the 2 black wires providing power to the switch or go to the motor?

 

[The Cobbler]

are the black wires the feed? if so you have 240 only.
the red wire doesn't seem to be doing anything, other thn attached to the switch on one side only.
as mentioned, which is the feed side? and what do you have for voltages if the feed is the r, b & w?

 

[SGKent]

1. Which motor is connected to that switch now?
2. I hope you have unplugged everything associated with that device?
3. Have you tested the switch to verify it is a 3 pole single throw switch? Smoke is a bad way to learn there was some weird non-expected internal bus in that switch.

 

[lafester]

Thanks guys. Black wires were the feed and the red wire wasn't even connected to the motor.

I have since gone ahead and tried it out with the new motor and it seems to work fine... White to white and black to black and no smoke. I used another switch so I could test remotely and shut it down instantly.

Not sure how to ground it though.



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[lafester]

What is the nameplate data from the 120v motor?



Are the 2 black wires providing power to the switch or go to the motor?

Here you go.

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[The Cobbler]

okay, be careful. it sounds like you're wired to 240, the motor wont last if that's the case.
measure the voltage across the 2 blacks & see what you have for voltage seriously.....

 

[mm08822]

Not sure what you have to work with in the way of wiring means to easily address grounding the motor.

Take pictures of the wiring between the power source to the switch box & from switch box to motor.

 

[mm08822]

Thanks guys. Black wires were the feed and the red wire wasn't even connected to the motor.

I have since gone ahead and tried it out with the new motor and it seems to work fine... White to white and black to black and no smoke. I used another switch so I could test remotely and shut it down instantly.

Not sure how to ground it though.



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Is w-w and b-b from a bench test or you already changed the wiring supplying the switch box on the lathe?

 

[lafester]

Just a bench test.

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[lafester]

Not sure what you have to work with in the way of wiring means to easily address grounding the motor.



Take pictures of the wiring between the power source to the switch box & from switch box to motor.

Well the motor was grounded to a mounting screw in the switch box. Power is grounded to the power box. Is that good?



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[The Cobbler]

seriously, before you worry about the ground, have you checked the voltage across the 2 blacks?
are the r,w,b wires from the 120 motor or the 240 motor?
if it's the 120, the wires should be red, white & green or bare . which colour is the ground?
the ground can mount to the steel box, assuming it hs a ground thru the armored cable feed

 

[mm08822]

Well the motor was grounded to a mounting screw in the switch box. Power is grounded to the power box. Is that good?



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Well now I see a green wire from the motor cable terminated in the switch box. The rubber cord looks to be passed through a bx connector (missing set screw). It should be replaced with a strain relief connector.


Does the lathe have 120v on it?
What plug is on end of the power cable to the lathe?

How do the 2 black wires get to the box? Can you replace them with a black, white and green? AND they will need to provide 120v.

 

[matt_i]

Sooo....1/10hp is around 75 Watts.

For simplicity's sake I would purchase a 100VA control transformer 240vac primary and 120vac secondary.

Wire the transformer's primary in parallel with the motor, the secondary side can be switched*. Its also adviseable to protect the secondary side of the transformer, a BUSS glass fuse or the like would be sufficient, I'd go with a 1 amp glass fuse to start.

* For those occasions like "always" when you don't want to use the coolant pump......All that said its my free advice you don't want any flood coolant on a manual lathe. Coolant gets *everywhere* including inside the headstock, apron and other places you really don't want it, rusting everything in the process.

 

[lafester]

Ha, yeah the lathe was pretty well covered in oil. But... No rust or corrosion to be found. I just want everything to be functional as it was originally. I can use a different switch if this one is no good as is.

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[lafester]

Oh the lathe at least has factory drain holes and guards preventing coolant from running down into the headstock. Not saying it still isn't messy or impractical. This came from from an industrial enviornment that needed constant cooling. But... Now I get fun toys to play with with in a hobby setting.

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[lafester]

seriously, before you worry about the ground, have you checked the voltage across the 2 blacks?
are the r,w,b wires from the 120 motor or the 240 motor?
if it's the 120, the wires should be red, white & green or bare . which colour is the ground?
the ground can mount to the steel box, assuming it hs a ground thru the armored cable feed

I'm showing the old wiring as found - 230v motor single phase. The old lathe motor was 3 phase but I bet they used a converter as these seem to have been wired together in the power box. If I end up using this a lot I will will get a vfd and put the old lathe motor back in.

At the moment nothing is connected on the lathe. On the bench I have the switch wired black to black, white to white and then nothing in the third slot. Are you asking to measure voltage when it is hot... black to black?

 

[lafester]

Well now I see a green wire from the motor cable terminated in the switch box. The rubber cord looks to be passed through a bx connector (missing set screw). It should be replaced with a strain relief connector.


Does the lathe have 120v on it?
What plug is on end of the power cable to the lathe?

How do the 2 black wires get to the box? Can you replace them with a black, white and green? AND they will need to provide 120v.

Yes, the lathe has 120v with a heavy duty standard plug. I am not sure if I will power both motors together or not. I believe they were before. It's only a 3/4 hp motor on the lathe.

The 2 black wires run through a pipe going through the cabinet and out the back, then over to the box.

Of course, yes I can replace the wiring... not sure if I have anything long enough on hand at the moment, but maybe.

 

[lafester]

okay, be careful. it sounds like you're wired to 240, the motor wont last if that's the case.
measure the voltage across the 2 blacks & see what you have for voltage seriously.....

Somehow I kept missing your posts. I don't have 220 power so that would be impossible? I haven't done anything other then a couple 5 second tests so far just to see if it worked.

 

[lafester]

So looking at my last pic I thought I saw a diagram in there... Can't see it at all without a light in it.

So yeah, looks like you just wire straight across.

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[alfredeneuman]

Sooo....1/10hp is around 75 Watts.

The motor says right on the nameplate that it draws 2.2A, or 264 Watts

 

[matt_i]

The motor says right on the nameplate that it draws 2.2A, or 264 Watts

Yea I sped by that. So its much closer to 1/3hp or highly inefficient...*slight* difference from the 1/10 rating lol.

500VA transformer is $99 at automation direct if you choose that route.

Most of the machine tools I've been around are 3 phase and they use control transformers for things like lights and small 1ph motors due to the issues of sometimes having 480vac input power and no manufacturer is going to require 2 separate feeds...I've seen illegal add-ons like 120vac receptacles wired from one line to ground without the transformer and always removed them.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Of course, do as you wish because it is yours, but I have never run flood coolant on a nonproduction lathe in the 40+ years I have run them. It is a messy proposition for an average home shop. On the other hand, all the production lathes at work ran flood coolant, either water based or oil based. The operators had as much oil on them as the machines did.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Yea I sped by that. So its much closer to 1/3hp or highly inefficient...*slight* difference from the 1/10 rating.

You're figuring the wattage on 747.5 watts per horsepower, without any losses. NO machine on Earth is 100% efficient.

 

[alfredeneuman]

480vac input power and no manufacturer is going to require 2 separate feeds...I've seen illegal add-ons like 120vac receptacles wired from one line to ground without the transformer and always removed them.

1 line to ground on a 480 system is 277V

 

[matt_i]

1 line to ground on a 480 system is 277V

Yes, correct again. I was thinking of 240vac machines with an "owners alternate" 5-15 outlet wired with one hot and one ground to supply 120vac. It didn't quite read that way tho...

 

[The Cobbler]

Somehow I kept missing your posts. I don't have 220 power so that would be impossible? I haven't done anything other then a couple 5 second tests so far just to see if it worked.

OK, that was not clear. I thought you had a 240 machine and were wiring the 120 pump to it.

 

[matt_i]

You're figuring the wattage on 747.5 watts per horsepower, without any losses. NO machine on Earth is 100% efficient.

Correct but if I put in 264W (the 2.2FLA) and get only 75W (the 0.1HP) of mechanical work out of it....thats a 28% efficient device. Electric motors are better than that (that's IC engine territory!). Planning for 100% efficient isn't always bad because the wiring errs on the side of being conservative.