Cutting HF some slack

[Fender1325]

Heres a new years resolution for ya, Im going to stop paying 30-50% markup on name brand cheap chinese sh*t at home depot and lowes, and spend my money at harbor freight.

Im going to go out on a limb and say I generally have liked HF tools better than kobalt and husky.......and......wait for it........milwaukee. Thats right I said it!!!!!! BOOM! ZING! POW! Let the flaming begin.

Na, but I think Im beginning to find what tools you can go cheaper on than others. I need to be more honest this year with how hard Im going to work a tool. Some times these lesser priced tools actually work out. Power tools at HF Im still iffy on to be honest, unless its something I wont need often and the HF price is miles better than the competition.

But, atleast in my experience, razor knives, vice grips, clamps, welding gloves, squares, screw drivers, hex keys, hammers, etc. I have owned from HF and the big box stores and its just plain not worth paying more for.

So cheers to HF.

 

[AA/FC]

Congratulations

 

[Vantastic]

Don't feed the trolls.

 

[Kenskip1]

I started this process last year.I purchased there 4000K generator along with 1/4, 3/8,1/2 drive ratchets angle grinder, cut off saw,air chisel,and I have had no complaints.All at a significant cost savings.What more could you ask? ken

 

[Fender1325]

No trolling just an observation looking back on this year and money spent on tools.

HF generally gets a bad rap here on GJ, and trust me I have bought some plain **** from them, but Im just giving a tip of the hat to them because they make some fair stuff.

I have realized I have bought some things from Home Depot or Lowes this year from Milwaukee (needle nose vice grips, angle grinder), Irwin, Husky, Kobalt that Im paying 30-50 percent more than its HF counterpart, and Im un-impressed and underwhelmed.

Another example, needed a 4 way lug wrench. Napa wanted $26 for their on the shelf tool and I caught myself and said ya know what lets see the HF one. 10 bucks. Same quality.

 

[AA/FC]

No trolling just an observation looking back on this year and money spent on tools.

HF generally gets a bad rap here on GJ, and trust me I have bought some plain **** from them, but Im just giving a tip of the hat to them because they make some fair stuff.

I have realized I have bought some things from Home Depot or Lowes this year from Milwaukee (needle nose vice grips, angle grinder), Irwin, Husky, Kobalt that Im paying 30-50 percent more than its HF counterpart, and Im un-impressed and underwhelmed.

Another example, needed a 4 way lug wrench. Napa wanted $26 for their on the shelf tool and I caught myself and said ya know what lets see the HF one. 10 bucks. Same quality.

I agree.... If you're gonna buy Chinese junk to begin with, you might as well but it direct from the Chinese junk store, aka HF.




lol

 

[vartz04]

Opposite of my plan. I'm buying stuff I'll pass down to my son instead of ****.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stikman56]

As long as you know what is what over there it's fine. Some is good,some is a waste of money.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Compared to the **** you are use to buying the HF might not be any worse and be cheaper to purchase, but for just say 25% more you can get a better tool and possibly one that is from a 1st world country.

 

[blown94conv]

Maybe I missed it, but what exactly are you proud of here? Actively looking to buy the cheapest **** you can, endorsing the off shoring of American jobs in manufacturing to China, supporting the Chinese manufactures who are well known for their enviromental concerns...

Not all of my tools are Made in the US, but it does factor in my choices. I don't know, but I wonder if in other countries if the race to the bottom is as celebrated as it is here, just so we can say we have the most stuff.

 

[Coopduc]

Or it could be the OP is a hobby type that has an average income, and would rather spend his money for food for his family rather than brag about how he just spent $100 on a SO ratchet.
Everyone makes choices based on his situation. Can't criticize until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

 

[toddoky]

If a guy is having a hard time affording food for his family, he really shouldn't be buying tools from anywhere.

 

[General Geoff]

Show me a brand new, U.S.-made 3 ton floor jack that costs less than $400.

That is why HF gets my business.


Even Hein Werner jacks are now just *assembled* in the US with global components, i.e. Chinese steel. Might as well get the same thing for $60 at HF.


(I have a 3-ton floor jack I got from HF over a decade ago, still going strong and it only cost me $60)

 

[General Geoff]

If a guy is having a hard time affording food for his family, he really shouldn't be buying tools from anywhere.

Buying tools is usually cheaper than paying someone else to fix something. I would argue that if someone has difficulty making ends meet, buying (essential) tools is very much justified.

 

[Hiball]

Or it could be the OP is a hobby type that has an average income, and would rather spend his money for food for his family rather than brag about how he just spent $100 on a SO ratchet.
Everyone makes choices based on his situation. Can't criticize until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

Seriously? It's amazing how far some of you guys are willing to go, to justify a purchase. It appears 2016 will be filled with the same HF versus SO BS, I think some of you should use the Internet to study up on all the brands between HF and those "$100 SO ratchets".

@OP If your happy that's all that matters. What is the point of the thread? Are you looking for reassurance from the community, life is too short to sweat tool purchases.. It boggles my mind to see so many members feel the need to repeatedly justify any brand purchase. Is it some kind of disclaimer on the packaging that you must at all cost defend the brand?

 

[Hiball]

Show me a brand new, U.S.-made 3 ton floor jack that costs less than $400.

That is why HF gets my business.


Even Hein Werner jacks are now just *assembled* in the US with global components, i.e. Chinese steel. Might as well get the same thing for $60 at HF.


(I have a 3-ton floor jack I got from HF over a decade ago, still going strong and it only cost me $60)

Oh brother..

 

[General Geoff]

Oh brother..

I'm not your brother, if you want to criticize what I have to say, do it constructively. Don't beat around the bush.

 

[Hiball]

I'm not your brother, and if you want to criticize what I have to say, do it constructively. Don't beat around the bush.

I've spent countless hours disassembling jacks to document the difference between jacks for the GJ community, if you simply refuse to take the time to understand the differences and wish to make blanket statements as them being the "same". Who am I to get in your way, just don't take it personally when people question your internet claims. The bush has now been Run the Hell over.

Steven

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Without going item by item and risking repetition, HF does fill a need. I shop there on occasion and I am sure many others do too. The things I have purchased are still in use and I can't think of anything I bought that broke or self destructed. Granted I am selective and don't buy much in the way of "tools", but still I shop there.

 

[toddoky]

Buying tools is usually cheaper than paying someone else to fix something. I would argue that if someone has difficulty making ends meet, buying (essential) tools is very much justified.

You're assuming the said broke purchaser has the skills/intellegence needed to complete the hypothetical maintenance/repair task in order to realize the savings. I've known a few guys who own tools that can fix very little with them.

 

[onarant]

I have always purchased tools based on how much or how hard I will use them. So far my HF purchases has worked out well for me. I do stay away from their power tools though.

 

[Tenex]

Makes sense to me. If you're going to buy Chinese tools with a lifetime warranty then you might as well get them from HF instead of paying a premium for Craftsman, Husky, or Kobalt.

 

[General Geoff]

I've spent countless hours disassembling jacks to document the difference between jacks for the GJ community, if you simply refuse to take the time to understand the differences and wish to make blanket statements as them being the "same". Who am I to get in your way, just don't take it personally when people question your internet claims. The bush has now been Run the Hell over.

Steven

Tell me then, what is the functional difference between a $60 HF floor jack and a $400 Hein Werner jack? What does the Hein Werner do that the HF jack doesn't? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Fender1325]

Haha! OP here. So much to respond to but thats good! makes for a discussion.

"Opposite of my plan. I'm buying stuff I'll pass down to my son instead of ****."

Speaking from experience - I have a lot of hand me down tools from my Dad. Some are from HIS dad but its rare. I really like that sentiment, but in my experience, most of the hand me down stuff is - although quality at one time - worn slap out, OR obsolete. A pipe wrench, a sledge hammer - those things will last generations. A circular saw? A router? Eh. If your son gets into a trade or is serious about tools, he'll be buying his own tools. I supplement with hand me downs, but one by one, they break. Theyre over 30 years old in most cases. Many of it craftsman. You simply cant buy that quality today for a COMPARABLE price to what it was back then, adjusting for inflation.

"Compared to the **** you are use to buying the HF might not be any worse and be cheaper to purchase, but for just say 25% more you can get a better tool and possibly one that is from a 1st world country."

See I used to think that. But I know better now. Brand names in Home Depot and Lowes are masters of disguise. They are NOT what they once were. I do not care what anyone says about that sentiment. They are NOT. And I've learned this over the past year. I'm just not going to pay more anymore. If they aren't going to provide superior tools, I'm not going to pay more. The equation is that simple. Are they all ****? No! BUT the majority are not superior and do not justify the 30-50 percent mark up.

"Maybe I missed it, but what exactly are you proud of here? Actively looking to buy the cheapest **** you can, endorsing the off shoring of American jobs in manufacturing to China, supporting the Chinese manufactures who are well known for their enviromental concerns...

Not all of my tools are Made in the US, but it does factor in my choices. I don't know, but I wonder if in other countries if the race to the bottom is as celebrated as it is here, just so we can say we have the most stuff."

I 100 percent support made in america where I can. The chinese vs. american thing has been a thorn in my side, sometimes it genuinely pisses me the F*** off. Side note- do you know we impose little to no tarriffs for imported chinese tools? Yet, china imposes hefty ones on us. America also has the highest corporate tax rate - virtually shunning off our great american brands to go overseas. Dont get me started.

This post is actually more to say enough is enough to Home Depot and Lowes. If you're going to take my american brands and bastardize them, I'm not going to pay you American prices or some kind of premium. You want to make it in China? I'm going to pay made in China prices. Its just that simple. And honestly, HF is getting the job done just as good in many cases - NOT ALL - but enough for me to make this thread.

"Or it could be the OP is a hobby type that has an average income, and would rather spend his money for food for his family rather than brag about how he just spent $100 on a SO ratchet.
Everyone makes choices based on his situation. Can't criticize until you have walked a mile in his shoes."

My income is average blue collar. American tools were once affordable to guys like me, but it has gotten silly in this country, and on this forum. Do I own $40 Klein dykes? Yes. Do I own a $200 Metabo Angle Grinder? Yes. (I bought the milwaukee as a "cheap" 2nd after my heavily used HF bit the dust. It got great reviews and I never liked dewalt grinders. I wish I spent the money on the HF honestly. You try things and you learn!) If its something you use a lot and you need it to perform then I do spend the extra because I have to. But the percentage of affordability of American or 1st world quality tools has shrunk vastly.

I have saved my family lots of money by fixing things myself. Vehicles, homes, etc. I do not have trouble making ends meet by any chance, but I'm not made of money.

 

[Farmall450]

Compared to the **** you are use to buying the HF might not be any worse and be cheaper to purchase, but for just say 25% more you can get a better tool and possibly one that is from a 1st world country.

Exactly.

 

[DougWil]

Harby is a good "value" on non electrical items like jack stands, jacks, wrenches etc....
But their electric powered tools are ****.

I went through dozens of various versions of their 4-1/2 disc grinders, jumping through the warranty hoops before giving up and buying Filipino Milwaukees.
Some grinders lasted only a few hours, other a few months.

The noise of the poorly made, poorly meshed and bubblegum soft HF bevel gears grinding away tells you it isn't going to last long.
Frequently the pressed on cooling fan would come loose from the shaft, letting it freewheel and rattle along.

 

[Fender1325]

God knows not everything HF makes is golden - their welders ****, (I have Hobart made in the USA, and I'm looking into Lincoln or Hobart for my next upgrade).

But Kobalt, Husky, Stanley, Irwin, Diablo, some Dewalt and some Milwaukee, porter cable, I'm sure theres more. I have been duped by those brands. I spent more for the name and shouldnt have.

 

[Fender1325]

Harby is a good "value" on non electrical items like jack stands, jacks, wrenches etc....
But their electric powered tools are ****.

I went through dozens of various versions of their 4-1/2 disc grinders, jumping through the warranty hoops before giving up and buying Filipino Milwaukees.
Some grinders lasted only a few hours, other a few months.

The noise of the poorly made, poorly meshed and bubblegum soft HF bevel gears grinding away tells you it isn't going to last long.
Frequently the pressed on cooling fan would come loose from the shaft, letting it freewheel and rattle along.

I have a metabo for heavier jobs and cutting, and I had the rock bottom $12 HF 4.5 grinder for flap disc removing mill scale or a quick touch up of a weld.

The HF died in a year. But it was light weight and comfortable for me to use. And it was 12 bucks.

At the time I said ok, no harm or foul, but I need something to hold up better than a year. I'll step up the budget for the next grinder. Having owned a dewalt that I returned for vibrating way too much, I got the Milwaukee - my first milwaukee power tool. Gets great reviews. It was just OKAY enough for me to let the return policy lapse, but I wish I did now. The power switch is the worst offender. How it slides up but then you have to push down to hook it in the on position. It frequently takes me 2 tries to get it to stay on.....just annoying. Vibrates a lot, sometimes needs the special spanner. I know you do it by hand, I do all the time on the Metabo, but sometimes this one doesn't tighten enough on a cutting disc.

I think I paid something like 15 bucks for the milwaukee needle nose vice grips. (I needed them right then and there) and I just find them cumbersome to disengage. Do they get it done? Yes. So does the angle grinder. But I'm not happy with them, every time I use them. Some tools are a breeze and others arent.

 

[Hiball]

Tell me then, what is the functional difference between a $60 HF floor jack and a $400 Hein Werner jack? What does the Hein Werner do that the HF jack doesn't? I'm genuinely curious.

Its not a question of the functionality, they both have hydraulic systems that can elevate a load. The differences is in the design, quality of seals used and ergonomics/longevity. NOW before I get accused of simply bad mouthing the cheaper jacks, Know this... I've spent countless hours answering questions in my overseas tutorial/emails/pm's to help members with there problems with these jacks. I not saying that everyone needs a $400 dollar Jack, but to claim a $60 dollar Jack is equal to a $350 dollar HW 93652 regardless of now being assembled with global components in KC Missouri is silly. The 93642/52 Hydraulic unit has been in service for 75+ years, I field calls weekly if not daily in some cases with people looking for these older Walker/Lincoln jacks, unfortunately the used buyers market is drying up and condition is getting worse, requiring more machine work to get them operational, thus less cost effective to rebuild.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Heres a new years resolution for ya, Im going to stop paying 30-50% markup on name brand cheap chinese sh*t at home depot and lowes, and spend my money at harbor freight.
.
.
.
But, atleast in my experience, razor knives, vice grips, clamps, welding gloves, squares, screw drivers, hex keys, hammers, etc. I have owned from HF and the big box stores and its just plain not worth paying more for.

AGREE ! I need a razor knife a few months ago. $3-$5 at Sears or HD. 99¢ at HF and it probably came out of the same factory !

Went to HF today and bought 3 small items. One was over $5, the other 2 were not. I got 20% off on each and a couple of FREE flashlights and a FREE tarp because I walked out the door and back in again !

I need to figure out what other <$5 items I need so I can get 2 more flashlight so I will have 4 for the grandkids !



Stay away from the plastic "squeeze" bar clamps, unless you are not going to put a lot of pressure on them. They look like everyone else's squeeze clamps, except the key locking piece on the other brands is metal, not plastic. Anyone with decent grip strength will break the little plastic piece,

 

[d.mcfarland]

I think you are saying that there are some really good values to be had at HF. For example a ton of us have their impact sockets and beat the snot out of them and they work.

But don't confuse that with the tools are "better" than ones at Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. based on price alone.

I also think that you are saying that the rebranded Chinese tools with good old fashioned names on them to make them seem "better" aren't what they use to be. That's true. So with that said, I think instead of cutting them some slack you are more or less realizing the modern tool market.

 

[Fender1325]

I dont need a jack often, but the Craftsman 3 ton with 2 stands and a creeper was a great value at roughly $100 if I remember right.

For my usage I could never justify the higher expense of one of the high end jacks.

Some things I try to buy a few notches above HF. Jacks, Ladders (werner), impact driver (craftsman c3)

The lines between our beloved american brands and chinese junk have gotten blurred. Our old tool quality has come down, and the chinese has come up. The income available to spend on tools for people who use them has come down. Its all changing.

 

[Fender1325]

I think you are saying that there are some really good values to be had at HF. For example a ton of us have their impact sockets and beat the snot out of them and they work.

But don't confuse that with the tools are "better" than ones at Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. based on price alone.

I also think that you are saying that the rebranded Chinese tools with good old fashioned names on them to make them seem "better" aren't what they use to be. That's true. So with that said, I think instead of cutting them some slack you are more or less realizing the modern tool market.

Precisely

 

[theoldwizard1]

Its not a question of the functionality, they both have hydraulic systems that can elevate a load. The differences is in the design, quality of seals used and ergonomics/longevity.

Can the typical HF/Chinese floor jack be "improved" with new/different seals at a "reasonable" price (less than the initial cost) ?

 

[General Geoff]

Its not a question of the functionality, they both have hydraulic systems that can elevate a load. The differences is in the design, quality of seals used and ergonomics/longevity. NOW before I get accused of simply bad mouthing the cheaper jacks, Know this... I've spent countless hours answering questions in my overseas tutorial/emails/pm's to help members with there problems with these jacks. I not saying that everyone needs a $400 dollar Jack, but to claim a $60 dollar Jack is equal to a $350 dollar HW 93652 regardless of now being assembled with global components in KC Missouri is silly. The 93642/52 Hydraulic unit has been in service for 75+ years, I field calls weekly if not daily in some cases with people looking for these older Walker/Lincoln jacks, unfortunately the used buyers market is drying up and condition is getting worse, requiring more machine work to get them operational, thus less cost effective to rebuild.

I can appreciate that the HW jack design is older, more robust, has arguably better ergonomics and costs more to manufacture regardless of where the manufacturing is done. Unfortunately, the HF jack is "good enough" for the DIY'er demographic, and at less than 1/5th of the cost, for most consumers, it *is* simply a question of functionality vs expense.

Thank you for taking the time to respond with specifics.

 

[ovrrdrive]

It's amazing to me how many people take genuine offense to what you do with your money. It's mind boggling...

If it's a one use tool for me it's coming from HF. If it's a low stress tool that appears to be made reasonable well it's coming from there too. If there's a safety issue upon failure or something I use to make money with I'll spend whatever is needed to get quality I'm happy with. I'll even spend more than that sometimes to get a brand that makes me feel warm and fuzzy too.

What I won't do is give half a **** what anyone on an internet forum thinks of what I choose to do with my money. If you want people to buy your product make a good product for a fair price.

 

[Fender1325]

It's amazing to me how many people take genuine offense to what you do with your money. It's mind boggling...

If it's a one use tool for me it's coming from HF. If it's a low stress tool that appears to be made reasonable well it's coming from there too. If there's a safety issue upon failure or something I use to make money with I'll spend whatever is needed to get quality I'm happy with. I'll even spend more than that sometimes to get a brand that makes me feel warm and fuzzy too.

What I won't do is give half a **** what anyone on an internet forum thinks of what I choose to do with my money. If you want people to buy your product make a good product for a fair price.

well said sir

 

[Hiball]

Can the typical HF/Chinese floor jack be "improved" with new/different seals at a "reasonable" price (less than the initial cost) ?

To a point... For instance, when I machined that groove of the Ram you sent me, it was to upgrade your Ram to accept a Quality Ucup versus the 2 piece design that you previously had. The big reason the older Yasui based jacks (think Green/White Sears) units where so good was because they used quality seals, bigger cross section Orings/massive Ucups along with durable Rod finishes on the pump/ram along with wipers on both to prevent contaminates. You don't see these types of seals/qualities on today's cheaper jacks, the manufacturers don't want them to last that long, they have figured out that they can create a New color scheme, bring excitement to the marketplace and resell a new Jack more often.

 

[Fender1325]

I wanted to share this with you guys - its a total side note, non scientific, and purely for a laugh....

My father in law asked to borrow my circular saw to cut some concrete. His old milwaukee gave up the ghost and he just bought a new makita that he didn't want to F up. Mine is a really old craftsman my dad handed down to me. It came with a 7 1/2" blade size that nobody makes anymore. My guess is its early 80's.

Sure enough mine ate it too. I kind of expected it because it hadn't been faring too well in recent use.

Out of pure entertainment I wanted to perform a strength test on the two dead circular saws by throwing them in the air as high as I could, and letting them land right on the concrete driveway. Mr. Milwaukee went up and came down with a glorious crash. Broke some bits off and the base totally bent and shifted cockeyed. Mr. Craftsmen went up and came down hard. Got a hairline crack in the body but everything moved well. Went up and came down again and the front handle cracked. Went up a 3rd time and finally bent the base and cracked off a piece of the blade guard. I was happy to see it hold up much better to its more recent Milwaukee challenger.

Again not scientific, and purely for a laugh.

 

[TerryH]

I just got back from Harbor Freight but I feel dirty now.