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cutting thick(ish) steel

ovrrdrive

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Find someone with a CNC Plasma table in your area and see what they'd charge for it. My PM65 would do it but it might need a short recess about halfway though to cool off before it hit it's duty cycle. It would be a nice clean cut though.

There are a few big CNC Plasma groups on facebook that I see people asking for a job to be done all the time. That's where I'd start looking if it were me.
 
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sberry

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The cut charge is only that, now we have travel and expense added to it. A sawzall is starting to look more practical and would be done before getting back from a road trip plus have the fee still in pocket.
 

dr_clyde

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I'm amazed at what you guys will put up with to save a few bucks. 95" of cut in 5/8" steel plate with a sawzall?? Really? And when you're done, you'll have a plate that was cut by a sawzall.

I don't get much free time, so I guess I value it differently. Interesting.
 

sberry

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If the charge is 100$ plus some expence how much is your free time worth? What do you charge? You go to a day job, what is the hourly pay??? If the savings are more than these whats it worth? If the cost is a days pay for a man how would it make sense not to cut it in a couple hours, 6 hrs free time plus free pay for the day. If a torch cut would be acceptable how about the finish from a sawzall"
 

Thumper68

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I'm amazed at what you guys will put up with to save a few bucks. 95" of cut in 5/8" steel plate with a sawzall?? Really? And when you're done, you'll have a plate that was cut by a sawzall.

I don't get much free time, so I guess I value it differently. Interesting.

A lot of it come down to availability of services as well and timing.

When I needed the 1" plate cut I called around and asked for quotes from 4 different shops, 2 I left messages and 2 I talked to humans, I had the plate cut before I got the first quote back.

I did receive 2 quotes back to make the 144" of cut, water jet $150 and cnc plasma was $138, both places said I would have to drop the plate off for a few days, so we can add 4 hours of travel time as well, trip to drop off and trip to pick up.

Real glad I decided to do it myself with the Milwaukee saw.
 

sberry

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The perspective gets skewed. I am closer to the type of thing most do here. I have all of it, havnt turned on a tig in a d4ecade, don't own any monel, titanium, been a decade since I did a piece of stainless and even then chucked an electrode in, don't have brewing or a need for sanitary work and am not specifically in motor sports. I do hundreds of builds, 1000's of maintenance and repair jobs, havnt needed a hole in a table, a special clamp or flat table in 40 years of this and on the rare occasion I need precision shim a pinch if needed. Very rare.
If I worked a job where it was all alloy and did spec work for others it would be slightly different but worked on a nuke, never saw a certiflat table. Benches where they did have them in the fab shop was a plate on horses. Loot at flanghe jocky does the fancy pipe pics, none of that ****, most piping in a nuke was dome on a tripod and edges of tool boxes or in place.
A good share of the worlds fab work is done with a welder a torch and tools can fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Not every cut needs to be precision. I only notice most if it is truly horrible. Built 300 steel benches for a plant, not a drilled hole in them. Built with a tape measure, a square and a welding machine with a sander to smooth edges.
I would be lost without a wire feed, make 1000's of welds a year with them, not 1 tig.
 

dr_clyde

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The perspective gets skewed. I am closer to the type of thing most do here. I have all of it, havnt turned on a tig in a d4ecade, don't own any monel, titanium, been a decade since I did a piece of stainless and even then chucked an electrode in, don't have brewing or a need for sanitary work and am not specifically in motor sports. I do hundreds of builds, 1000's of maintenance and repair jobs, havnt needed a hole in a table, a special clamp or flat table in 40 years of this and on the rare occasion I need precision shim a pinch if needed. Very rare.
If I worked a job where it was all alloy and did spec work for others it would be slightly different but worked on a nuke, never saw a certiflat table. Benches where they did have them in the fab shop was a plate on horses. Loot at flanghe jocky does the fancy pipe pics, none of that ****, most piping in a nuke was dome on a tripod and edges of tool boxes or in place.
A good share of the worlds fab work is done with a welder a torch and tools can fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Not every cut needs to be precision. I only notice most if it is truly horrible. Built 300 steel benches for a plant, not a drilled hole in them. Built with a tape measure, a square and a welding machine with a sander to smooth edges.
I would be lost without a wire feed, make 1000's of welds a year with them, not 1 tig.


When did this become about TIG welding, nuclear piping and welding tables? Good God man, we get it. You can hack with the best of them. If OP wants a sketchy cut that takes a while and makes a mess, have at it with a grinder.

I was simply looking at value for money. If I had no tools, and wanted this job done, I'd make a call. I have a torch, plasma, mills, grinders, saws and all, that, and I'd still hire it done. Because I know when to hire a job and still come out ahead. A laser or plasma will result in a perfect cut with little to no work needed after the fact. I'll get a better job, for less effort. And then while the top is being cut, I can fab the base, or work on my truck, or just sit and drink a beer.

A plate saw costs, what, $200? Getting this job done by any number of methods in a shop would result in a nice finish, with little to no horsing around, FOR LESS MONEY! OP has no way to do this and get a result even close to what you'd get with even a straightedge and a cutting torch.

Most shops even offer pickup and delivery. My laser guy has a flatbed truck that goes out every day, all over town. One phone call. Done. Most guys don't even bother to ask about that.

We're not talking high brow and snooty here. This is down and dirty fab work. No need to re-invent the wheel just for the sake of "DIY".

Yes, I have a shop. Yes, I do metalwork of all kinds for a living. Yes, I know the insides of the industry. But what that gives me is an informed perspective. When the home guy come on this forum and asks a question about the best way to go about something, I will do my best to give the answer I think is appropriate. I didn't say, "go buy an expensive tool you may only use once". Nor did I say, "go for it, down and dirty with a sawblade that wasn't designed for your application". I gave advice leaning on my experience making things.

I look at things in the way of how I would do a job if I was trying to make money, because that tends to weed out ideas that have less merit, for one reason or another. I've usually done the other ways and said "That sucked. Don't want to do that again".

Good luck, OP. I hope whatever you end up doing you are happy with.
 

tarbellb

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While I agree with most of what you say dr_clyde, I think you are in a unusually high industrial part of the world and have more access to fabrication outlets.

Lots of shops Ive talked to out West typically do not want to screw with your "1 time" job. When I do approach a farmed out job like this, I try to make it the easy and rewarding job.
That means bringing the piece ready to go, marked out, easy accessibility, a case of beer, and on a Friday.

Everyones situation is different, and each has its unique solution. Transportation, time, cost, wanting to invest in tooling, learning to do something yourself, etc.... all come into play.

Seems transportation isnt much of a issue, so farming it out smartly by calling ahead and bartering a price seems like easy move.

Otherwise, load it onto the trailer so that you have easy access for cutting ON the trailer and go at it with whatever tool you decide.
 

dr_clyde

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I will concede that Michigan is a hub of industry. For that, I am spoiled.

Ultimately, I'm not the one doing the work, and free advice is worth what you paid for it.

I just call em like I see em.
 

ttpete

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Rent a cutting torch. Use a piece of angle as a guide. It will take you longer to go get the torch and return it after you're done than it will to make the cuts.

This. Probably have to rent an extra oxy tank to make sure you have enough.
 

DonPowers

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Another perspective, good excuse to buy a new tool, especially if you plan to do any amount of metal work.

As previously mentioned, I have the Morse Metal Devil circular saw, which may sit for a couple years between uses, but its there when I need it. Also have a 14" Milwaukee cold cut chop saw, which is being used on one of my current projects. The two tools combined were still less expensive than a decent plasma cutter.

Bottom line, buy a tool to do the job and you will have it for many more projects.
 

sberry

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Thumpers experience says a lot. Your plate guy.... well most of these are not close personal friends with a fab guy does them a great deal with free delivery. I look at it as making money also and getting the job done, usually today. The point about the nuke is that id someone thought they needed all that stuff then they would have had it since money want much of an object.
Saving a 100$ is making it. Its 50 an hour to the home body. You do have an informed perspective but its from a different viewpoint, I try to remember the people and situation and their perspective and get them the right machine instead of the one I like or the one I learned on.
The opinion is that everyone that doesn't use a water jet to build a work bench is a hack says a lot. I manage to built 1000's of items without a laser and a water jet. Don't even know anyone that owns one, probably similar to most of the guys on this forum.
It isn't that I cant do intricate work, oits just that I found out I don't need to and in the end much of it was a waste. Just like future proofing the wiring with conduit 2 sizes bigger, found out when I did this 30 yrs ago its never been used.
Guys will build a perfect 1000$ work bench and find ou9t they don't have much to fab once its done. I got buds build tools so they can build more tools, never used it once it is done as they don't have the work. My neighbor is a master of masters,. a hobby guy now, bought a 175 feeder and hasn't been over in a decade to have something welded.
 
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sberry

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We get a lot of advice from professional craftsmen here, absolutely masters but a lot of the advice is somewhat amateur. A guy needs a couple 1/2 holes in a plate its a good opportunity to learn to use a drill vs calling half the phone book for estimates on a mag drill and a rotobroach.
 

sberry

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Does any of this look like "hack" work?
My experience comes from owning a tig, having the ability to use it and finding out after some time I don't use it and wouldn't bother to buy one unless I had a burning need. I would really find out how much I couldn't do with a small mig before figuring that I had to weld every alloy ever invented.
I might be inclined to buy a 200$ saw though even with limited future use and pay on the rare occasion to have a piece tigged. That would be my advice to the first time poster wondering which machine to get,,, I would find out if he wants to become a career welder or dodder making some stuff in the yard for grand kids. Is he going to do general work or start building brew equipment.
 

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dr_clyde

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(snip)The opinion is that everyone that doesn't use a water jet to build a work bench is a hack says a lot.(snip)

That isn't what I said, so don't put words in my mouth. The opposite is usually true. However, industry has spent decades and billions of dollars developing processes and equipment to make manufacturing easier, faster, safer, and ultimately cheaper. It would be foolish to not take advantage of some of it, especially when it makes good sense. Work smarter, not harder.

The best businessman and master craftsman I know use the technology that best solves their problem. Sometimes that's a laser, but sometimes that's the 1950's flywheel shear.

The home shop guy sometimes doesn't know all the cool **** that is at their fingertips. Yeah, some shops don't want to deal with walk ins, but there are a lot that do. Ask around, beat the pavement, find the resources that work best for you.
 

sberry

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I am all for using technology, welders are famous for using new equipment. But you would be correct that the home guy isn't aware of every option. But part of the skill here is learning to do some of it the most practical way, common ways to do things for 1 off work.
Its different when one is forwarding the charges to another customer to farm out some of the latest greatest. I built 300 benches for a factory, I do have a plaz but certainly went to the supplier and gang cut most of the material at rates several times less per unit plus the timeleness that it required than I could by hand.
Shear and brake work is well worth it. Aint no way around it especially from a friendly supplier where charges are bare minimum or small flat rate and I am taking the drops from full pieces. But if I had to whack a sheet of 1/4 in half the tools need to be handy or I would be bighting the bullet while the next guy is trying to figure an easier way and work for 20 minutes with a sawzall before I load it up and drive around calling everyone I can think of to see how much it cost.
My Bud did that on some loader brackets a while back. He was unsure of himself and torch was having problems and he said he had 20 mins a piece in it and the finish was beautiful as it is from a sawzall.
Here are some brackets, torch cut, need 2 of them. There is surely an automatic process that would be more perfect, hand torch cut is fast but could have simply grinder cut them in short order if it would have had to be done. But they don't need to be more perfect and a guy could have taken them to another shop, paid to watch a cad plas cut them if and when they could get to it. Even if delivery is free we wait.
I charge 50$ the other day to build something I could have bought for 35, it took less than an hour and didn't have to get on phone, order and wait a week. I finished my job immediately.
Sometimes shoveling is easier than renting a trencher.
 

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dr_clyde

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Let me be clear. I am not saying take everything to a fab shop, don't innovate or do anything at home. In THIS instance, my opinion is that the OP take the plate to a shop. He is not equipped to do this cut correctly.

This is not the case for most things. Most of the time, the problem can be creatively solved with what's at hand.

But there is a time and a place to hire a job done. IMO, this is one of those times.
 

sberry

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I got to wonder, if I got a torch, a plasma a saw and a fab shop would I need to sent it out for laser water cut, why bother having the other tools?
The OP had about 8 ft of cut. Even being as simple as it could be, either grinder or sawzall. Lets assume a bottom line of 100$ for a cut charge and this doesn't include other expense of transport or wait but direct expense about as cheap as it could get done for avg guy and that is being gracious.
I could cut it with 20$ in blades without moving it in about 2 hours. That is a net of 40 per hr to pull on a sawzall, that's after tax and expense money directly in the pocket.
 

sberry

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It is certainly not a terrible idea if it works out to be convenient enough. I also don't mean to imply there isn't a time or place for it.
 
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rustyjames

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I got to wonder, if I got a torch, a plasma a saw and a fab shop would I need to sent it out for laser water cut, why bother having the other tools?
The OP had about 8 ft of cut. Even being as simple as it could be, either grinder or sawzall. Lets assume a bottom line of 100$ for a cut charge and this doesn't include other expense of transport or wait but direct expense about as cheap as it could get done for avg guy and that is being gracious.
I could cut it with 20$ in blades without moving it in about 2 hours. That is a net of 40 per hr to pull on a sawzall, that's after tax and expense money directly in the pocket.

Cut 8' 5/8" steel with a sawzall? I can't even imagine how long that would take, or blades you'd go through. Same with a grinder.
 

Griff93

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If the charge is 100$ plus some expence how much is your free time worth? What do you charge? You go to a day job, what is the hourly pay??? If the savings are more than these whats it worth? If the cost is a days pay for a man how would it make sense not to cut it in a couple hours, 6 hrs free time plus free pay for the day. If a torch cut would be acceptable how about the finish from a sawzall"

I got to wonder, if I got a torch, a plasma a saw and a fab shop would I need to sent it out for laser water cut, why bother having the other tools?
The OP had about 8 ft of cut. Even being as simple as it could be, either grinder or sawzall. Lets assume a bottom line of 100$ for a cut charge and this doesn't include other expense of transport or wait but direct expense about as cheap as it could get done for avg guy and that is being gracious.
I could cut it with 20$ in blades without moving it in about 2 hours. That is a net of 40 per hr to pull on a sawzall, that's after tax and expense money directly in the pocket.

If the cut charge is $100, the shop doesn't want to mess with it or isn't setup for it. I own a fabrication shop with a CNC plasma table. We would charge the op $35 to cut this for him if he were local. This is a 15 minute job including setup time and loading the plate.

I'd like to see you cut 8' of 5/8" plate in 2 hours with a sawzall. I'm all for working hard, but there's a point to where you're uselessly beating yourself up for nothing. I bet a lot of Sawzalls wouldn't survive the constant use it would take to cut 8' of plate without burning up the motor.

As for a laser, water jet, or plasma cutter, they all have their place and uses just like any other tool. They were created out of need. One big thing with them vs by hand is the detail and tolerance that they can produce. Making multiples of something is also where they shine.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about fabrication tables with holes in them. Have you actually used one? For lots of layout and 'jig' work they really help speed things up, especially if you have multiples of the same part. I bought one and use it daily. It's a good fit for us and makes it where some of the less skilled people in our shop can build parts in tolerance without many issues. Don't get me wrong, I can and have done a lot of stuff with a plate top table. To me it's a working efficiently thing.
 

mike13u

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Find someone with a CNC Plasma table in your area and see what they'd charge for it. My PM65 would do it but it might need a short recess about halfway though to cool off before it hit it's duty cycle. It would be a nice clean cut though.

There are a few big CNC Plasma groups on facebook that I see people asking for a job to be done all the time. That's where I'd start looking if it were me.

That's a 6 minute cut for a 65. Easy day, Overdrive.

Setting up and taking your time with a couple of grinders (they do get hot) with cutoff wheels is really no big deal at all. 7" models would be preferred. We have to do it at times on heavy plate for various reasons and its nothing. Yes, its slow. But its effective. Get a box of good disks (3M or Pferd). If it needs to be accurate, scribe out your cut line and then line several layers of duct tape on the inside and outside of your scribe line. Your grinder will stay between the tape lines and if it jumps it will nick the tape and not your work surface before you bring it back in-line.
Put on some earphones and get after it.
 

lotsoftools

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When I was going through welding school every now and then someone would stop by with something like that needed cutting. We needed the experience as students anyways. Maybe you have a junior college in your area?
 

joe49

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If the cut charge is $100, the shop doesn't want to mess with it or isn't setup for it. I own a fabrication shop with a CNC plasma table. We would charge the op $35 to cut this for him if he were local. This is a 15 minute job including setup time and loading the plate.

I'd like to see you cut 8' of 5/8" plate in 2 hours with a sawzall. I'm all for working hard, but there's a point to where you're uselessly beating yourself up for nothing. I bet a lot of Sawzalls wouldn't survive the constant use it would take to cut 8' of plate without burning up the motor.

As for a laser, water jet, or plasma cutter, they all have their place and uses just like any other tool. They were created out of need. One big thing with them vs by hand is the detail and tolerance that they can produce. Making multiples of something is also where they shine.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about fabrication tables with holes in them. Have you actually used one? For lots of layout and 'jig' work they really help speed things up, especially if you have multiples of the same part. I bought one and use it daily. It's a good fit for us and makes it where some of the less skilled people in our shop can build parts in tolerance without many issues. Don't get me wrong, I can and have done a lot of stuff with a plate top table. To me it's a working efficiently thing.

On laser,plasma, and water jet. More a evolution in cutting, not like cutting wasn't done before these process.

Nothing seems as useless as a garage person getting into a hole filled or spaced plate table and many single purpose accessories for it and thinking it is practical or necessary. When the plain table has no real disadvantage. Tacking up jigs has no real world disadvantage for small amount of time it is really needed. This isn't to say in a real fab shop it doesn't have use or is not worth the investment. Just that it isn't the only way and the money would be better spent upgrading your welder or oxy/acet equipment.
 

Jazz1

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Time for metal cutting band saw. No more sparks and fumes. One of my most versatile tools. The portable will suffice in many cases
 

sberry

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Nothing seems as useless as a garage person getting into a hole filled or spaced plate table and many single purpose accessories for it and thinking it is practical or necessary. When the plain table has no real disadvantage. Tacking up jigs has no real world disadvantage for small amount of time it is really needed. This isn't to say in a real fab shop it doesn't have use or is not worth the investment. Just that it isn't the only way and the money would be better spent upgrading your welder or oxy/acet equipment.
The above I agree with.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about fabrication tables with holes in them. Have you actually used one? For lots of layout and 'jig' work they really help speed things up, especially if you have multiples of the same part. I bought one and use it daily. It's a good fit for us and makes it where some of the less skilled people in our shop can build parts in tolerance without many issues.
First yes I have. Secondly we are not usually talking to shop owners here with multiple men doing fancy jigs in production. we are talking to a guy that doesn't have enough tools to make a simple cut.
He isn't a job shop, doesn't "have less skilled men" doing production. Wont have a daily use for it. Isnt going to speed up any work or save any money and will really turn it in to a specialized tool where a good simple bench may have a lot of use. It requires special expensive clamps instead of promoting a collection of simple basic ones that have multiple uses. This is really my point.
 
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sberry

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I mention this earlier. I had a job where I made about 300 benches for a rebuilding plant. We used a leg assembly shaped like Thumper used, a quite a bit more economical though. The bench is ok for one off but we tacked the jig to a plate and stand it up in the corner when we didn't need it and tossed it on the bench when we did. The pieces dropped in, no measuring and simple 11R clamps.
It was simple for "less skilled" labor and took about 5 minutes with no possible error. But its a thing for someone building 600 sets of legs and doesn't really apply to Joe home garage.
Secondly, Thumper is a fine fabricator but obviously this isn't production and time and cost not a factor.
 

GaryM909

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Why not call a rig welder in your area? Most carry bottles and if they are close enough they wont charge travel. Around here the structural guys charge about $80/hr. That way you wont have to haul that plate yourself.
 

sberry

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One of these days I am going to find a plate and build a new bench. The reason I havnt is that mine work and it wouldn't make or save anything to improve them. It was just scraps and a start from another job that should have been re designed early on but it works so well and its not for being perfect but having basic features where the rubber meets the road. An overhang, a bench under to toss stuff out of the way, a place to hang clamps and hammers and a cut can.
I have a couple holes I use on occasion and its location is everything and its size is practical. I don't find myself having to routinely "beat the shuit" out of stuff on my bench and like the top relatively thin enough that every clamp doesn't need to be adjusted far from the materials we work with. Many of these tops are thick enough they really don't need subframing, simply weld the legs to them. Tie some 2x2 10 ga tubing together at shelf height with some angle and possibly angle stiffner lengthways under to if its longer than 5 ft or 1/2 inch or lighter.
I understand dual purpose, could get by with a chunk of tube for a vise but rather have it fixed on another bench.
 

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iajonesy

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I sure hope the OP has his plate cut by now and we can bring this thread to an end. This thing got so far off topic it's crazy.

Mike
 
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M

metal1313

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I agree, as the OP this went far left/right of where it was intended. I did expect some Wild suggestions. If I can actually find someone to cut it I will, if not I'll figure something out. I can't rent a torch, no one locally rents them, and I wouldn't trust myself to do a good job. I have several grinders but all 4.5" and don't want to go that route. I'm working with a 12x16 garage for now, I don't have room for everything I want, including a 60g compressor or plasma at this time. The table isn't needed now, but will be very useful
 
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