Cyclone for dust collection- to much power?

[tarbellb]

I diving into my dust collection again and thinking about pairing a Dust Deputy (smaller 14" model) w/ my 1hp , 11.5amp, 11in mobile dust collection motor.

My concern is can there be to much power for a cyclone?

These Dust Deputy sized cyclones are typically paired with a shopvac, not sure if a) my DC is more powerful, b) if it is, does that negatively effect the performance?

Any help is appreciated.

My DC is basically like this HF model-

And the Dust Deputy-

 

[rlitman]

I think that the issue would be the restriction would limit the airflow. So your larger blower would still perform like only a shop vac was hooked up to it.

FWIW, centrifugal separators only perform marginally better than a Thein baffle, with both letting through a lot of fines. I made a Thein for my 1.5HP blower, and then directed the output at a large pleated filter.

 

[MoonRise]

Regular DustDeputy is listed as for use with shop-vac type machines.

If you go with the bigger SuprDustDeputy, those units are listed as for use with actual dust collectors.

https://www.oneida-air.com/inventory.asp?catid={17F46883-40BB-471E-982F-E5F28583241B}

And besides that, the shop-vac sized DD's have a 2" inlet/outlet port.

The SuperDD's have bigger dust-collector-sized ports. Which would actually match up (physically and performance-wise) with a dust collector.

4" hose on your dust collector? Maybe try the SuperDD with 4" port

https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD002040A&CatId={17F46883-40BB-471E-982F-E5F28583241B}

(and Yes, your dust collector most likely has more air flow than a shop-vac type machine.)

Or, just call OneidaAir at their 800 number and ask their tech folks.

 

[MoonRise]

btw, with a metal regular-sized garbage can and some 4" duct fittings I made a cyclonic-type 'separator'.

Similar 1 hp (nominal) portable dust collector and 4" line inlet port as what you showed (different make/model, but similar in size and performance I'm sure).

No more chips/chunks end up going to the dust collector, only some dust/fines (I really need to get a better filter bag with a finer micron rating). But just from the standpoint of not filling the dust collector bag with planer/jointer shavings and also from not sending all the shavings and chips into the impeller it was definitely worth it.

YMMV and all that.

 

[Rbreddin]

I agree with the others, get the larger "super dust deputy"..

ideally, you want all the tubing to be the same size as your input device and made out of hard walled duct (due to it's lower coefficient of friction). you want the smallest amount of flex duct along the system as possible.

when it comes to things like the dust deputy, you want them to be slightly larger than the duct, so that the air just slows down enough to drop the large pieces "out of solution", while still carrying the fines through the impeller housing and the filter bag.

 

[dogdog]

SuprDustDeputy .... or made your own. there is/was a calculator / spread sheet from that original creater's site... Bill Pentz..... have more info than the Oneida site.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/

I have problem with fine dust clogging the filters when I used these things for dust... not wood chips but for dust... it still works great though.

 

[tarbellb]

All good suggestions, I shouldve noted that:

I am trying to make a very compact dust collection unit on wheels to be mobile in the shop.

First I was just going to buy the smaller Ridgid 5hp WD4070, and build around that.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-4-Gal-5-0-Peak-HP-Portable-Wet-Dry-Vac-WD4070/202077241
But then I realized that I have a 1hp collector laying around and thought about converting that into this unit.

The general scope of what I want to do-

Dust Deputy (14" model) cyclone paired to a 1hp x 11" propellor dust collector tied into a cabinet w/ dust bin. All built-in to a 24"x 24"x 48" tall cabinet to keep noise down. Substitute the giant bag for a a standard Ridgid pleated filter.

Its a little odd, Im working on the 3D model to see the whole package together, but seems doable?

Inspiration -

 

[Rbreddin]

I've got a very small shop and I'm also going to be looking for a truly compact design.
right now, something with a 18"X18" footprint that can hang on a wall and connect to a rigid duct distribution system is probably where I'm headed..

I've got an air scrubber that I'm installing as well.

 

[dnschmidt]

I've got the original metal dust deputy and it's mated to a dedicated shop vac and my router table. Best investment I ever made. Works great with MDF dust which is a Mother. These Cyclones are great inventions.

 

[jeffer949]

I have a 6.5hp craftsman shop vac with a Standard DD. I feel it is to small as I lost some suction with it installed. But Ill take the trade off for not having clogged filters all the time.

 

[rlitman]

I have a 6.5hp craftsman shop vac with a Standard DD. I feel it is to small as I lost some suction with it installed. But Ill take the trade off for not having clogged filters all the time.

Any sort of filtration will reduce suction. Cyclones are not immune to this.

 

[tarbellb]

Thanks for the reminder about the Thein baffle rlitman, I forgot about those. That could be the direction I go if truly trying to go as compact as possible.

------
So, any air flow engineers out there want to gander on -

can you exceed a cyclone cfm rating?

Sounds like it will just choke off some cfm at the cyclone and perform as intended?

 

[rlitman]

Thanks for the reminder about the Thein baffle rlitman, I forgot about those. That could be the direction I go if truly trying to go as compact as possible...

My setup uses several 5 gallon buckets stacked. The bottom bucket holds about 2 gallons of dust (since the upper bucket rims fit inside and take up some space). The two cut up buckets above that house the baffle, though I used metal ones I found for this. The piped inlet comes into the side of this, and the blower sits directly on top, with the inlet of the centrifugal blower positioned directly above the center of the bucket lid (basically where the Dust Deputy is in your photo). I cut my baffle using plywood and a jigsaw, scaling the proportions down to 5 gallon bucket diameter size. It's pretty efficient so long as the bucket isn't overfull.

The blower throws the air horizontally, and I turn that down, and back past a pair of pleated filters. I chose the largest filters I could get at HD, as they were the most economical per surface area. I have a 1" sacrificial MERV 11 filter in front of a 4" deep MERV 16 filter (I want to say they're 20x25). The whole setup is pretty much the same footprint as your photo, but I have a 4" piped inlet, and get some real air moving through it.

edit: Here's a picture I found of the filter box mid-construction. I hadn't even removed the wrappers from the filters yet.

 

[BukitCase]

I started off with one of these (pre-"vortex")
http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/dc-...hp-1ph-115-230v-2-micron-canister-kit/708659K

Then added a Super dust deputy - all my DC piping is 4" pvc drain, smooth-walled, no 90's anywhere, blast gates for 11 tools so far (with 3 more waiting for more floor space) - works well so far, haven't emptied the original bag since adding the cyclone (several YEARS now)

My collector's on a 2'x4' dolly; I originally built it to be "portable", but 4" flex hose on the floor got old quick so now everything's either overhead or against walls.

I also have 4 shop vacs in different areas, only ONE does NOT have a Dust Deputy. Not as compact a footprint as you're wanting, but I LOVE just emptying a bucket/barrel, and MAYBE blowing out a filter every couple YEARS... Steve

 

[Lelandwelds]

Just call the factory. They really helped a friend's cabinet shop.

Has any one tried the Chinese knockoff for $20? I have a vacuum that I use just as a shop vac. It's a Rigid and is really quiet. Replacing it's filter is a PITA.

 

[A29]

Using the $20 Chinese mounted on a 30 gallon metal can. Works great

 

[cheechi]

Maybe this thread can be helpful to you.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360828

 

[Rbreddin]

you might want to read THIS site as well..

generally speaking, the smaller units dont pull enough CFM to actually remove the harmful dust (at the machine), so it essentially floats around for several hours giving you more opportunity to inhale it.

sobering read..

 

[redmondjp]

you might want to read THIS site as well..

generally speaking, the smaller units dont pull enough CFM to actually remove the harmful dust (at the machine), so it essentially floats around for several hours giving you more opportunity to inhale it.

sobering read..

Having just had a neighbor die from COPD, you really don't want to breathe any dust/particulate matter, regardless of the source, that is so fine that it never comes back out of your lungs. My work location just moved under (yes, under) the flight path from a major airport. So now we are breathing high PM from the jet exhausts all day. Nothing I can do about it w/o finding another job.

 

[RKA]

The simple answer is it depends on what you are collecting dust from. Sanders, track saws, handheld router all benefit from high velocity. Your vacuum connected to the dust deputy will do the job. But machines like a table saw benefit from high volume, where your 1hp collector motor and a super dust deputy will work well. You won’t get good results using the vacuum with the table saw or the 1hp with your sander. I’m sure someone has done it and says it works “fine”, but this is the Internet, you’ll get all permutations of opinions.

As for mixing the small cyclone with the 1hp, I suspect it won’t work. The small cyclone creates high static which would kill the airflow and velocity from the duct collector. You’ll probably burn up the motor and you won’t have enough velocity in the cyclone to force the larger particles out, so many would get passed onto whatever filter you have connected downstream. If it’s that bag, you’ll just be breathing dust.

 

[WWheeler]

 

[tarbellb]

Well played Wheeler...

Glad this thread got some more traction.

I called Oneida, she didnt give much insight into why, but said yes the 1hp unit is to powerful for the smaller Dust Deputy. I suspect RKA is right about it bypassing the cyclone and ending up in the final stage.

Likely just get the smaller cyclone and smaller Ridgid vac and build a system. Save the 1Hp unit for a Thein Baffle and use on a larger scale.

Any others out there who have poured countless hours into dust collection systems...?

 

[Rbreddin]

...I suspect it won’t work. The small cyclone creates high static which would kill the airflow and velocity from the duct collector. You’ll probably burn up the motor ...

How are you going to burn up a motor that attaches to an impeller which only moves a compressible gas?

 

[rlitman]

How are you going to burn up a motor that attaches to an impeller which only moves a compressible gas?

To this point, the motor of an impeller pump sees the least load when the flow is stopped. That's why a vacuum motor rises in pitch when you block the opening of the hose.

 

[Rbreddin]

Bottom line..

You need enough suction to pull ALL the particulates out of the air AT THE SOURCE, then you need to be able to slow that air down so the particulates largely fall out of solution(air) and gather in the bag..

the Fines are the problem, anything will pickup the big pieces and what we call sawdust, it's the **** that we can't see that kills us, not the stuff we can..