Dad Fried My Generator

[cajunrebel`]

So my father was having a mobile home put in on a property he just bought in Mississippi and needed power to help with constructing steps. His generator was still in Alabama at the time and I live 40 minutes away in Louisiana, so I lent him mine. Both generators are the same basic model, Troy built, 10 hp Briggs and Straton, 5550W, and both are inverter units I believe.
Well long story short (no pun intended here), my dad wired it up wrong to the 220V plug before hooking into his breaker box. Put a hot lead where the neutral goes, and let the smoke out of my generator head. I have not opened it up to see the damage yet, but I bet there is atleast a fried rectifier or voltage regulator. I have yet to find a local place (SE Louisiana, near New Orleans), that will even look at it. Most generator companies here work on large units on ships, boats and oil production platforms. This thing is a toy to them and it's also not even worth what most would want for 2-3 hours of labor.
If I go ahead and remove the end cap of the generator head and start diagnosing this thing myself, what should I look for other than obvious physical and thermal damage?

 

[larry4406]

Give the fried unit to dad in trade for his working generator and let him fix it.

 

[cajunrebel`]

We discussed that option. However, mine is about 5 or 6 years newer and has less than a 10th of the hours on the motor.

 

[rlitman]

Sounds like he created a dead short. Did it really let the smoke out?
In theory, that should stall the engine or trip a breaker, but if you disconnect it and restart it, there's a chance it will still work.

 

[cajunrebel`]

It let the smoke out. Plumes of black smoke. Breaker never tripped. Engine still runs and I have tried powering a tool (small drill) and it barely spun at all, and after a few seconds it began to smoke again from the generator head. Definitely something wrong with it.
My dad has agreed to repair or replace at his own cost, I am just trying to get the best deal for everyone.

 

[ForceFed70]

If there was that much smoke, Likely it melted a winding. There is no overcurrent protection on the neutral.

It'll need a generator head. Tho you may be able to get one of those companies who rewind alternator/motors to repair. My experience with those services tho is that it's generally cheaper to buy a new motor and only makes sense to rewind if buying a replacement isn't an option.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

We discussed that option. However, mine is about 5 or 6 years newer and has less than a 10th of the hours on the motor.

Swap just the heads. Keep your motor and frame.

 

[cajunrebel`]

Doesn't solve the problem of us both needing a generator, just passes the problem off to my dad.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Both generators are the same basic model, Troy built, 10 hp Briggs and Straton, 5550W, and both are inverter units I believe.

HIGHLY UNLIKELY !

That specific unit I think is made by B&S and is sold under multiple brand names. Mines carries a Craftsman label.

but I bet there is atleast a fried rectifier or voltage regulator.

Also, not likely, especially if my first statement is correct.

Likely one of the windings is melted, especially it it went a a dramatic way (lot of smoke). Small engine repair/outdoor equipment shops could at best install a new head.

I have a general understanding a alternators. The rotor is one continuous winding so you should be able to measure some resistance across the 2 slip rings. You should also be able to measure resistance from L1 to neutral, L2 to neutral and L1 to L2.

Finding a shop to rewind it (maybe an electric motor rebuild shop) will be difficult. The rotor is tricky to remove. Check YouTube. How To Remove a Generator Armature

 

[rockwithjason]

Price out a new generator head and then comparw to a new generator

 

[cajunrebel`]

The rotor and stator are each priced around $350 from troy bilt. Once I get a chance I will tear into it and see what is damaged. Also, it seems that the unit is not a inverter based generator looking at troy bilt's parts diagrams.
If both the rotor and stator are damaged, then it will be cheaper to replace the entire unit than to replace the two parts.

 

[laser3kw]

another long shot - cruise Cragslist and the like for a like generator that has a bad motor and then mix and match.

 

[cajunrebel`]

another long shot - cruise Cragslist and the like for a like generator that has a bad motor and then mix and mach.

That's not as far fetched as you think. This is an extremely common unit in South Louisiana. They made thousands of them after Katr in a and many people haven't needed them since. My Dad's unit was bought after the storm and was out only power source for many weeks until power was restored, thanks to a great crew of linemen from central Texas.

 

[Dr Stan]

Try a small engine repair shop or a motor rewind shop. Either they can or probably will know of someone who can repair the generator.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

If the smoke got out, that head is done. If you contact the manufacturer, you might be able to find the ohm specs for the rotor and stator, but without a megger, you could still have a short to ground without being able to tell with a standard DMM. Not something you want to find out about your rotor AFTER buying a $350 stator.

 

[cajunrebel`]

My local starter and alternator shop wants no part of fixing it. The owner wasn't even able to tell me who could fix it. My last job had a mega ohm meter, but I'm outta luck at my new one. I may have to check with our port engineer. Our fleet only has 13 boats, each with dual generators.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

My local starter and alternator shop wants no part of fixing it. The owner wasn't even able to tell me who could fix it. My last job had a mega ohm meter, but I'm outta luck at my new one. I may have to check with our port engineer. Our fleet only has 13 boats, each with dual generators.

Need someone with a Fluke 1587. Problem is portables usually aren't worth the time needed to fix them, so most folks don't want to waste an hour to fully diagnose them to begin with.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I would just buy a new one

 

[rlitman]

another long shot - cruise Cragslist and the like for a like generator that has a bad motor and then mix and match.

A pretty good idea.

HIGHLY UNLIKELY !

That specific unit I think is made by B&S and is sold under multiple brand names. Mines carries a Craftsman label.


Also, not likely, especially if my first statement is correct.

Likely one of the windings is melted, especially it it went a a dramatic way (lot of smoke). Small engine repair/outdoor equipment shops could at best install a new head.

I have a general understanding a alternators. The rotor is one continuous winding so you should be able to measure some resistance across the 2 slip rings. You should also be able to measure resistance from L1 to neutral, L2 to neutral and L1 to L2.

Finding a shop to rewind it (maybe an electric motor rebuild shop) will be difficult. The rotor is tricky to remove. Check YouTube. How To Remove a Generator Armature

Yes to all of this. Resistance measurements with an ordinary multimeter should be able to determine which coil is fried, but considering the price of either a replacement rotor OR stator, needing either one replaced would total the machine IMO. Not both, as stated above. Consider the time involved in the replacement, the fact that the machine is not new any more, and the possibility that replacing one would not get you a working machine (so that would be money thrown out). And even if it works, was anything else damaged that may not be immediately apparent?

Need someone with a Fluke 1587. Problem is portables usually aren't worth the time needed to fix them, so most folks don't want to waste an hour to fully diagnose them to begin with.

[rant on]Fluke is not the end-all-be-all of electrical metering equipment (as much as you'd think from reading this place). There's a reason people call these things Meggers. Megger is a brand name you know, and they're not the only ones that I feel are superior to Fluke. I see Fluke and Snap On tossed around here to a sickening degree.[rant off]

Anyway, for this, a $40 Chinese meg-ohmmeter will do you just fine too, and megging the coils is a good idea if you really want to go down the path of replacing either the rotor or the stator, and want to "bless" the other (before you dump money on a coil and find out that more than one is fried). But do be sure to isolate the coil from any other electronics before you fry more stuff with the meg-ohmmeter.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The rotor and stator are each priced around $350 from troy bilt.

As I said, this generator was sold under multiple brand names including Brggs and Stratton AND Generac.

I bought a lightly used one about 10 years ago for $300.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

[rant on]Fluke is not the end-all-be-all of electrical metering equipment (as much as you'd think from reading this place). There's a reason people call these things Meggers. Megger is a brand name you know, and they're not the only ones that I feel are superior to Fluke. I see Fluke and Snap On tossed around here to a sickening degree.[rant off]

Didn't say anything of the sort. Just suggesting he find someone or a shop that has an insulation tester, and that's a pretty standard model to find. Nothing to get worked up about.

As previously said, there are plenty of models that use that head. Have a Generac branded one in the shop now that ran the piss out of the 10hp Tecumseh until the valves sunk, and isn't worth rebuilding. Should be able to find one like that if you have any small engine shops around to call, or even posting a local CL ad to catch one before it goes to scrap.

 

[James-W]

If it were me I would just bite the bullet and buy a new one, and maybe share the cost with your dad. That way you get a new generator for half price and your dad feels like he paid for his mistake. I have a feeling the cost of repair would approach, if not exceed, the cost of a new generator. There are times when replacing something is a better value than repairing it and I suspect this is one of those times.

 

[Richard Cranium]

so often that is the case, cheaper to replace then repair, it is a throw away generation.
Nothing bad intended to the op or any one else, Just is bad when the parts are worth more then the unit. Even with out labor.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Consider it pay back for all his tools of his you let the smoke out of whole growing up.

 

[cajunrebel`]

I've paid bad any tools of his that I broke, with interest. He smoked a transmission is his 4x4 truck while stuck in a ditch and hung up on a tree in winter in the rain. I got under his truck, unstuck it, towed it out and changed his transmission. The transmission burned up because the tv cable came loose even though I told him it was damaged and needed to be monitored until it was replaced.

 

[rburke65]

At this point, I'd have to vote to buying a new one.

 

[cajunrebel`]

I will try and track down a used generator head, and if I cannot find one I will split costs with him on a new one and let him have my old one for parts.

 

[James-W]

I will try and track down a used generator head, and if I cannot find one I will split costs with him on a new one and let him have my old one for parts.

I will give that a "two thumbs up" because I feel that is a "win-win" situation for both of you.