Dado Blade stack doesn't cut flat - arbor slop

[HoosierBuddy]

Hey guys,

My craftsman 113 10-inch table saw has served me about like you might expect for going on 30 years. By that, I mean, it cuts wood in roughly the size and shape I hope it will and I have developed a massive skill set in hiding its inaccuracies in the finished work. We have reached sort of a non-aggression pact...I don't expect precision from it, and it, in turn, hasn't cut off any of my body parts yet.

BUT (and that's a big **** ladies)...Its performance when equipped with a freud dado stack is so horrendous that I'm thinking about taking out a hit on the thing. The 5/8" Arbor fits pretty well on a single blade, but when you put a stack on there, it gets out on the threaded area of the arbor. Even though those threads are nominally a square thread profile (like an acme 10 or some such bastardized-sheet)...they are way under 5/8 in diameter, so the stack is kind of all over the place once it's clamped in, and when run across a board, it leaves high and low cuts making the grooved piece unusable without rework.

My crazy plan is to pull the arbor, pop off the bearings, set the arbor up in a metal lathe, turn from the stop all the way to the threaded end down to about 3/8, press on a steel sleeve, turn that to 0.625", and rethread the end for a 5/8-11 nut. My thinking is I would only thread enough of the arbor to get a nut on it, and would use a spacer(s) as needed to clamp up against a single blade or a dado stack.

See image of OEM arbor here:
https://s.sears.com/is/image/Sears/PD_0009_113_508511?wid=2000&hei=2000

Question 1 - Does this sound reasonable?

Question 2 - Can you think of an easier way to do this? I was originally thinking of something like a thread on sleeve that would thread over a portion of the craftsman's arbor when a dado stack needed installed....but the 5/8 - 10 UNC thread chased me off that plan.

Phil

 

[Ecosta777]

I would be wary of the sleeve slipping when you go to thread it (presumably with a die). I would suggest single point threading on the lathe, and also going with a finer thread, like 5/8-18. Also I would suggest a shrink fit on the sleeve to ensure its on there the best it possibly can be. Aside from that, you could make a new arbor, which I did for one of my Craftsman saws.
Eric

 

[The Cobbler]

how much smaller diameter is the threaded portion?
could you run a nut on with loctite & then turn it down to the shaft OD?

 

[The Cobbler]

I see the ******* thread now.

 

[Hytekrednek]

it is just a band-aid, but you could try peening the arbor hole in the blade that is loose to tighten up the fit. Just be sure to peen it evenly around the hole. A center punch or the ball end of a small ball peen hammer, smacked with another hammer. I have done this with great success on a couple budget blades that had an over sized arbor hole. Took my time and just did a little at a time, slowly creeping up on the desired fit.
If you ever got a new saw, just ream the arbor hole out until it fits like it should on the new saw.

then there is always the wobble dado blade as and option, but not a great one in my opinion seeing as you valued a well cut dado enough to buy a $110 set.
Good luck. Please follow up with the details if you get it sorted out.
There is a well known rule-of-thumb in gunsmithing, always modify the cheaper part when you can.

 

[timewarp]

I think I would try to find the correct thickness of shim stock to wrap over the threads under the dado set. Or bore out the dado set to a diameter you could get a bushing that is a snug fit on the shouldered part of the shaft and long enough to hold the dado stack(realizing you’d need more than one for different thicknesses of dado.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BukitCase]

Maybe a LITTLE less crazy, but nuthin' to lose - assemble your dado stack on anything that's full 5/8", even the smooth part of a 5/8 bolt might work; then, CLAMP the stack together in two places, as opposite each other as will allow you to put the stack AND clamps (vise grips?) back on the arbor; remove the bolt/bushing, put the clamped stack on arbor, TIGHTEN the nut (hopefully there's room for the blade washers or this probably won't work) -

Once the blade nut is as tight as you dare, remove the vise grips and give it a try - nuthin' lost if it doesn't work, and might save screwing around with the harder bandaids... Steve

 

[gnpenning]

I think you are right about it serving you well for 30 years. Instead of having to mess with it and some other of the issues you alluded to, how about retiring it and moving up to a better saw?

After you fix this issue will the other issues be fixed?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Maybe a LITTLE less crazy, but nuthin' to lose - assemble your dado stack on anything that's full 5/8", even the smooth part of a 5/8 bolt might work; then, CLAMP the stack together in two places, as opposite each other as will allow you to put the stack AND clamps (vise grips?) back on the arbor; remove the bolt/bushing, put the clamped stack on arbor, TIGHTEN the nut (hopefully there's room for the blade washers or this probably won't work) -

Once the blade nut is as tight as you dare, remove the vise grips and give it a try - nuthin' lost if it doesn't work, and might save screwing around with the harder bandaids... Steve

Hmm...I like that idea. It might even work. I'll give it a shot!

Phil

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I think you are right about it serving you well for 30 years. Instead of having to mess with it and some other of the issues you alluded to, how about retiring it and moving up to a better saw?

After you fix this issue will the other issues be fixed?

Well, the other big issue is the fence. I mean, the fence is a joke and has been since the day I bought it.

I assume someone makes a good fence out there that will fit it.

My "dream saw" would be one of the nicer SawStop saws. They probably aren't the best saws on the planet, but I've got kids that use the saw and theoretical grand kids that might someday use my table saw...and I would be devastated is something happened to any of them...so if someone gave me a boatload of cash to upgrade my shop, that would be what I would choose. Likely not the best saw in the world...but a lot less likely to remove an appendage than most. And even that saw would probably benefit from an aftermarket fence.

Well...that's a whole different thread that already exists on this board...so forget I brought it up.

Phil

 

[alinc100]

I'd bet some quick shopping on craigslist and you'd find a much better saw.
Here is a quick example in 500 mile of Indy.
https://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/tls/d/delta-rockwell-unisaw/6666512941.html

 

[dwall174]

I have two old Craftsman table saws that I'm hoping to rebuild & set-up as a dual saw system, One saw will be mainly used for dado cuts & I've ran into the same problem with the arbor. It's actually a known problem with Ridgid & Craftsman saws made by Emerson! There's really two problems with the arbors, One is the undersized thread & the other is a undercut groove just before the back flange. (pic 1)

My crazy plan is to pull the arbor, pop off the bearings, set the arbor up in a metal lathe.

If you have access to a metal lathe, Then it wouldn't be too hard to remake just the 5/8" arbor shaft. The flange that's on the shaft is pressed on with a small tack weld to hold the flange in place. (pics 2 & 3)

My thinking is I would only thread enough of the arbor to get a nut on it, and would use a spacer(s) as needed to clamp up against a single blade or a dado stack.

I don't have a lathe, But I've been thinking of having one made something like you described. (last pic)

Doug

 

[dwall174]

Well, the other big issue is the fence. I mean, the fence is a joke and has been since the day I bought it.

I picked up a Align A Rip XRC from Sears parts direct awhile back for $120 shipped. I had a very similar fence on an old Ridgid saw I had & it was really accurate.

I don't know if Sears Parts Direct still offers the fence, But it my be worth checking into.

Doug

 

[McFarmer]

Jebus, how big a stack are you putting on ? Or did I miss that ?

I'd make two passes with a smaller stack.

 

[matt_i]

I would just machine a whole new arbor, but you'd have to do a little practice piece first to make sure you could duplicate the threadform. I would choose a 4130/4140 annealed steel as you don't want the stub breaking off and sending a 10" throwing star at you...pay attention to the corner radius at the large flange.

A possibility would be to Speedi-Sleeve the arbor, the issue I believe is that its not long enough, and I am not sure two of them is any better.

Another option is to get one of the "dial-a-dado" adjustable dados instead of the stack. It runs on a single centerpiece (one hole). My only complaint was that it wasn't a perfectly flat bottom, one could either get a little widow's peak in the center or a slight large radius across the entire bottom. I do regard the stack dado as a higher quality solution but

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I have two old Craftsman table saws that I'm hoping to rebuild & set-up as a dual saw system, One saw will be mainly used for dado cuts & I've ran into the same problem with the arbor. It's actually a known problem with Ridgid & Craftsman saws made by Emerson! There's really two problems with the arbors, One is the undersized thread & the other is a undercut groove just before the back flange. (pic 1)


If you have access to a metal lathe, Then it wouldn't be too hard to remake just the 5/8" arbor shaft. The flange that's on the shaft is pressed on with a small tack weld to hold the flange in place. (pics 2 & 3)


I don't have a lathe, But I've been thinking of having one made something like you described. (last pic)

Doug

Yup...that's it!

Great info Doug.

Phil

 

[The Cobbler]

making replacement arbors could be a neat little project for someone on here

 

[HoosierBuddy]

making replacement arbors could be a neat little project for someone on here

True that.

Make the unthreaded portion 7/8" to hold the whole freud stack, as that is likely as big as you'd ever need. Include a nut and a spacer to be used with a single blade. The user would reuse their original arbor washer.

Someone with CNC capabilities could turn those out by the gross. Sears probably sold MILLIONS of those 113 saws with the same arbor. They still sell a replacement (which is **** like the original) for right at $100 each.

Phil

 

[dwall174]

Make the unthreaded portion 7/8" to hold the whole freud stack, as that is likely as big as you'd ever need.

Yeah the arbor section from the flange can be lengthened a bit, Here's a drawing I got from another forum where they had a local machinist make a new arbor.

Doug

 

[The Cobbler]

..... Include a nut and a spacer to be used with a single blade.

or a long nut bored so the one end slips over the shaft (built in spacer)

 

[Curly48]

True that.

Make the unthreaded portion 7/8" to hold the whole freud stack, as that is likely as big as you'd ever need. Include a nut and a spacer to be used with a single blade. The user would reuse their original arbor washer.

Someone with CNC capabilities could turn those out by the gross. Sears probably sold MILLIONS of those 113 saws with the same arbor. They still sell a replacement (which is **** like the original) for right at $100 each.

Phil

HoosierBuddy. I like your idea of making an improved Arbor for the Craftsman 113 10" Table Saws. Have you ever had a Machinist look into making you a new Arbor?

I have the Craftsman Contractor 10" Belt Drive Table Saw 113.298842 I purchased it March of 1991. Its still in great shape, and it has served me well. I also have the Craftsman "Excalibur" 8" Adjustable Dado (48 Teeth Wobble Blade), which I want to replace with a new 8" Stacked Dado Set. I was researching Stacked Dado Sets when I cam across your post here, and I'm glad I found it.

I've seen another post on Y-tube (Table Saw Arbor Fix), where he put some JB-Weld on the undercut groove just before the back flange, let it cure overnight, then with the saw running, sanding it down with a block of wood wrapped with sandpaper. It's a quick fix that may help with that section of the Arbor, but not the threaded section. Maybe we could extend the KB-Weld out into the threaded section say maybe for the full 7/8" to allow the full assembly of the "Stacked Dado Set" to mount onto the Arbor. Then as you suggested use the Original Arbor Washer and Nut. Then when installing a Single 10" Blade add a Spacer?

I have some POR15 two part Epoxy Putty that I may try instead of the JB-Weld. I've used it on my truck before with great results.

What is everyone's thought on this idea for the Craftsman 113 Arbor Modification?

 

[marak]

.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

It's as topical now as it was 4 years ago really. Our "consumer quality" Craftsman Table saws are just 4 years older and have 12 more hours of run time on them.

So...I modified mine much like Cruly48 suggests except I welded the last thread or so on mine (instead of epoxy) and then cut the weld back on a lathe. It works great with a dado stack. To use it with a normal blade I use a hollow spacer between the nut and the washer that goes against the blade.

Curly I wouldn't mind the epoxy so much, but the sand paper idea seems a little jank. You have to maintain concentricity. I don't think you could keep the required tolerances without a lathe.

I got a private message from a fellow GJer a couple of weeks ago, and he was going to be selling a custom arbor he had machined that does exactly what was discussed in this thread. If you want me to pass that contact along to you, shoot me a message.

Phil

P.S. I also bought a nice fence for the saw. The quality fence improves the saw by a factor of 10.

 

[dwall174]

HoosierBuddy. I like your idea of making an improved Arbor for the Craftsman 113 10" Table Saws. Have you ever had a Machinist look into making you a new Arbor?

I got a private message from a fellow GJer a couple of weeks ago, and he was going to be selling a custom arbor he had machined that does exactly what was discussed in this thread. If you want me to pass that contact along to you, shoot me a message.

That would be me!
As I mentioned to Phil "Hoosier Buddy" I had an arbor made for my old Craftsman 10" saw, but I never got around to installing it.

The new arbor is installed in the old trunnion with new bearings.

I was hoping to sell it locally with the top & other items.
However, all I got was a bunch of low offers for it.

If anyone is interested in it send me a PM.

Doug