Daikin R410A leak (my bad)

[dcg9381]

Well, I've installed 3 of these and finally screwed one up as I didn't pressure test for 24 hours.

I have a coolant leak. I'm going to need to cut lines, re-flare, do a better job of pressure testing and refill with R410a.

Questions:
1) Any recommendations for decent flare tool set?
2) I assume I just vacuum pump this thing out pre-install?
3) Oil - I'm familiar with automotive HVAC systems (a bit). If I evacuate this, I can certainly figure out how much R410a goes back in it, but do I need to deal with compressor oil or look into that at all?

 

[fitter30]

Never used these but have some good reviews. Any name brand flare block should be fine. The biggest thing is to ream the tubing.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075RZ1MDZ/ref=sspa_mw_detail_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1QCX2IJTMI9YI

ttps://www.amazon.com/FlareSeal-Model-MSP-0408-Flare-Connections/dp/B07M81FBF9/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8s65pJ774wIVth6tBh2lOgd8EAMYAiAAEgLYqPD_BwE&hvadid=352536289423&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9022924&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1o2&hvqmt=b&hvrand=17301253215592554547&hvtargid=kwd-303807653009&hydadcr=24665_10401007&keywords=flare+seal&qid=1565540982&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

[brewchief]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y5TRNQT/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This CPS kit is what I use, easy to get consistent flares. I have a nice hilmor tool as well and it doesn't produce good flares as consistently as the CPS tool.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Jackfre]

In addition to the flaring tool you will need a refrigerant scale. It is the only way to tell what charge you are running. I have the Ritchie flaring tool but have had troubles with the 1/4” tubing. It doesn’t clamp tight enough and pushes the tubing. Currently I am I using the Hilmer.

 

[Git]

I bought this one and it worked great - pretty much foolproof

watch their video

Also Nylog on the flare
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008HOSQQQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[jjrbus]

When researching this I found that the majority of mini failures were due to faulty installations, I also found that many of the videos online were for R22 installs or people that had no idea what they were doing!

Daikin mini split install kit, which includes the flair gauge and torque wrenches and Black Max flairing tool. $$$$$

Nitrogen tank and gauge $$$

CPS VG 200 vacuum gauge $$

Video showing how to properly do flairs, priceless.

Don't worry about putting the nut on the line before flairing, that is only for pro's : )

Proper vacuuming, testing ect is in other videos.

 

[dcg9381]

Thanks for the advice and tooling on doing the flares... This "pre-flared" kit didn't work so well and honestly, it's my bad for not pressure testing for 24 hours.

So I know how to re-flare and how to re-charge the system (using the scale).

Questions:
1) I'll need to re-evacuate the system. Do I need to add oil like in automotive applications?

 

[brewchief]

Unless there was a huge puddle of oil around the unit don't worry about adding any.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Jackfre]

I bought this one and it worked great - pretty much foolproof

watch their video

Also Nylog on the flare
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008HOSQQQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This is the unit I put away. Initially, the first few flares it was excellent. Then after on a couple dozen flares it would not hold the 1/4” tubing securely. I think I am going to look at the 1/4” dies and see if it is filled with copper shavings that prevent it from properly clamping the tubing.

 

[MattT]

Nitrogen tank and gauge $$$

If you have a TIG you can use argon. Just have to buy the high pressure regulator.

This "pre-flared" kit didn't work so well and honestly, it's my bad for not pressure testing for 24 hours.

Do you still have the flare nuts that came with the unit? If you do then use them when you re-flare the lines. And if you've thrown them away it would be better to buy some new ones rather than re-use the ones that came with the pre-flared lineset. The nuts on pre-flared linesets aren't any better than the flares.

 

[jjrbus]

When I checked the ready made lineset flairs with the flair gauge 3 of the 4 failed. The nuts supplied with the ready made line set were also noticeably lighter than the ones supplied by Daikin.

 

[dcg9381]

If you have a TIG you can use argon. Just have to buy the high pressure regulator.

I have a MIG. I believe it's argon and C02.
I also have straight C02.

Do you still have the flare nuts that came with the unit? If you do then use them when you re-flare the lines. And if you've thrown them away it would be better to buy some new ones rather than re-use the ones that came with the pre-flared lineset. The nuts on pre-flared linesets aren't any better than the flares.

The lines are still connected. Conflicting advice here - throw them away or use them?


When I re-vacuum this thing, I do so with the service valves closed? I assume that's what keeps from sucking out the compressor oil?

 

[PoorOwner]

You should still have some refrigerant left in the unit? You need to reclaim it into a tank for recycling.

With a leaky lineset you need to recover to 0psi, close both the valves, do the repairs, leak check etc.
vacuum the lineset and indoor unit to 500 micron but not less than 200 micron.

If the whole unit is completely flat you need to vacuum the whole thing and condenser which would take longer.

The last step is weight in the charge.

supposedly a minimal amount of oil is lost, it's not like automotive where you spec to put the new charge with some amount of oil.

 

[MattT]

I have a MIG. I believe it's argon and C02.
I also have straight C02.

You don't really want to be introducing CO2 into the system.

The lines are still connected. Conflicting advice here - throw them away or use them?

The unit probably came with flare nuts & plugs capping the ports on the condenser & evaporator. These are the nuts you should use when you re-flare the lines if you still have them. If they're lost/thrown away then buy some good quality new nuts. Do not re-use the cheap nuts that are currently on your pre-flared lineset.

 

[dcg9381]

The unit probably came with flare nuts & plugs capping the ports on the condenser & evaporator. These are the nuts you should use when you re-flare the lines if you still have them. If they're lost/thrown away then buy some good quality new nuts. Do not re-use the cheap nuts that are currently on your pre-flared lineset.

Ahh, yes. Thanks for reminding me. I definitely still have them.

Thanks for all the help guys..

 

[Probedude]

vacuum the lineset and indoor unit to 500 micron but not less than 200 micron.

I didn't think there ever was a lower limit vacuum target. Why go no lower than 200 micron?

 

[PoorOwner]

I didn't think there ever was a lower limit vacuum target. Why go no lower than 200 micron?

At the lower micron the oil will out gas and break down.

You can do some research on that you will find something.

With the oil present it may be pretty hard to get to that low too.

 

[jjrbus]

vacuum the lineset and indoor unit to 500 micron but not less than 200 micron.

.

I read this and thought oh oh, even with my cheap vacuum pump I was under 200 microns!

Looked it up online and remembered I was vacuuming a new system with no oil in the lines.

But still with all my reading before I started I do not recall reading that.

 

[PoorOwner]

Here is the article I learned this information from. On the last page but overall
great information for learning about deep vacuum. much better than YouTube etc.

http://www.jbind.com/pdf/JB Industries Principles of Deep Vacuum.pdf

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I have a MIG. I believe it's argon and C02.
I also have straight C02.

CO2 is an absolute no-go for pressure testing. It has REALLY high moisture content.

Tommy

 

[dcg9381]

Here is the article I learned this information from. On the last page but overall
great information for learning about deep vacuum. much better than YouTube etc.

http://www.jbind.com/pdf/JB Industries Principles of Deep Vacuum.pdf

Thank you for this...

 

[dcg9381]

Looks like I'll need a real vacuum (Micron) gauge too... Something else for the tool chest. The HVAC section is getting fairly large.

 

[Probedude]

Looks like I'll need a real vacuum (Micron) gauge too... Something else for the tool chest. The HVAC section is getting fairly large.

I replaced my old discrete micron gauge + meter with one of these back when it didn't have blutooth and was only $99. Works great! Not sure the blutooth is worth the $100 premium.

https://www.trutechtools.com/Accutools-BluVac-Plus-Micro-Wireless-Digital-Micron-Gauge

 

[phansen39]

You don't need a micron gage.

 

[phongthuytamnguyen]

This CPS kit is what I use, easy to get consistent flares. I have a nice hilmor tool as well and it doesn't produce good flares as consistently as the CPS tool.

 

[jjrbus]

Looks like I'll need a real vacuum (Micron) gauge too... Something else for the tool chest. The HVAC section is getting fairly large.

Large and expensive $$$$$. My cheap Harbor Freight vacuum pump that I use for cars was able to pull under 500 micons with no problem. It is claimed fresh vacuum pump oil is needed before starting. The best place I found to buy it in small quantities in this area is NAPA.