Daisy Chaining Outlets

[garboui]

Im going to be installing a row of outlets today in a wall for a work bench. They will all be running off one circuit (possibly 2).

I know according to code you are supposed to daisy chain by marettinng the split at each outlet box. What I want to know is whats wrong with daisy chaining off the spare set of screw terminals on the duplex. afterall the current paths that are there all have to be able to carry a 15A load anyways.

 

[Bubbles]

That's all I ever do, second wire to the next one off the bottom set.
the last one use top screw on one side bottom on the other.
I think here 5 is the most your allowed to have in a row

 

[KenC]

Couple of things:

1. You'll find it a lot easier to manage stuffing the wiring and recept back in place if they are pigtailed. Connect the pigtails to the wires in/out. Stuff that back into the box. Connect the pigtails to the recept. Now you only have to deal with 2 wires when placing it in the box. Much less chance of damaging the insulation or recept itself.

2. When pigtailed, one box can be worked on with out breaking the chain. And a future recpt failure won't affect anything downstream.

 

[Zeke]

Ken C is right but if the boxes are small, folding the wires connected to the terminals in a "Z" will stuff them in there nicely. I prefer this method with a CFCI that has terminals. 3 wire nuts in the back of the box gets crowded sometimes.

 

[Cedge]

I solved a similar problem with pre-wired multiple outlet strips from Home Depot. Since I almost never have more than one item running at a time, it was a viable option for having 110 volt power access anywhere on my counters.

Steve

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I solved a similar problem with pre-wired multiple outlet strips from Home Depot. Since I almost never have more than one item running at a time, it was a viable option for having 110 volt power access anywhere on my counters.

Steve

Do they have them in both 15amp and 20amp?

 

[Cedge]

****
It's been 10 years since that purchase, so I don't recall their rating. The only thing that ever kicked a breaker was a 110 volt air compressor. You'd need to check with HD for specs.

Steve

 

[Midnight_America]

Both methods are permisable, so either daisy-chain or pigtail or a combination of both as you wish, assuming they are quality receptacles. If you're going to use the no name cheap receptacles, then I would daisy-chain. DO NOT use the back-stab option, even if it's available on either the cheap or quality receptacles. I'm sure I will catch **** from someone about the no back-stabbing method...so be it.

 

[awdblazer]

i do the daisy chain because, well when i came in to finish my buddies basement one circuit there was a dead short
well all i did was go to each of the plugs and started taking wires off one at a time and checking for shorts
if you pigtailed it would take a lot longer plus you may have to cut your wire down

 

[garboui]

Well the roughing of the cable is done now and just waiting drywall tomorrow. I plan on sticking with daisy chaining the outlets off the screws (Leviton). I have repaired enough stab locks gone bad to know not to use them. It was good hearing your guys opinions on it though (reassuring) as I've had a few people(not even remotely an electrician or tradesman) tell me not to in the past and that it was unsafe.

 

[kossuth]

Well the roughing of the cable is done now and just waiting drywall tomorrow. I plan on sticking with daisy chaining the outlets off the screws (Leviton). I have repaired enough stab locks gone bad to know not to use them. It was good hearing your guys opinions on it though (reassuring) as I've had a few people(not even remotely an electrician or tradesman) tell me not to in the past and that it was unsafe.

Like others have said daisy chaining is allowed for residential purposes. Now, in when you get into industrial/commercial applications the rules could well be different. When I used to do wiring installations as a soldier in the Army (back before they contracted everything out) we were not allowed to daisy chain outlets (not sure if it's a code issue or not) for various reasons. One thing to consider if you ever do decide to use pigtails rather than daisy chain is your box capacity. Case in point most of your single gang boxes are anywhere from 18-22 cu inches. If you are using 12 gauge wire, a 18 cu" box won't cut it. Things to consider if you ever do it that way.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Like others have said daisy chaining is allowed for residential purposes. Now, in when you get into industrial/commercial applications the rules could well be different.

The rules for resi and commercial work are the same. Pigtaling is NOT required by code. In commercial work it is pretty much SOP though. Typically because it is in the job specs.

I can't see how anyone would think it is easier to fold the wires in with pigtailing. It is MUCH easier using the device screws.
Also, the old "you can work on a box without disrupting the other receptacles" thing is WONRG. You should NOT be working on things live so this is a NON-issue.

 

[EricS]

Hi Garboui,
CEC 4-034(4)
"...the continuity of the identified conductor shall be independent of device connections,such as lampholders,receptacles,ballast,etc.,so that the devices may be disconnected without interrupting the continuity of the identified conductor."

kossuth,Speedy Petey,
It might not be required in the USA but Canadian code requires it both comercial and residential.
Part of the idea ia

 

[kbs2244]

I like to do the pig tailing with the outlets and face plates while sitting at a bench.
Then you can just walk over and wire nut them in place.
A lot less time standing.
(My knees are kind of old.)

 

[Speedy Petey]

kossuth,Speedy Petey,
It might not be required in the USA but Canadian code requires it both comercial and residential.
Part of the idea ia

Sorry, I never noticed the location.

 

[awdblazer]

Hi Garboui,
CEC 4-034(4)
"...the continuity of the identified conductor shall be independent of device connections,such as lampholders,receptacles,ballast,etc.,so that the devices may be disconnected without interrupting the continuity of the identified conductor."

kossuth,Speedy Petey,
It might not be required in the USA but Canadian code requires it both comercial and residential.
Part of the idea ia

that is for anything with a split neutral
aka kitchen countertops
you split that neutral and you now have 240 across whatever is on that circuit now

 

[kossuth]

The rules for resi and commercial work are the same. Pigtaling is NOT required by code. In commercial work it is pretty much SOP though. Typically because it is in the job specs.

I can't see how anyone would think it is easier to fold the wires in with pigtailing. It is MUCH easier using the device screws.
Also, the old "you can work on a box without disrupting the other receptacles" thing is WONRG. You should NOT be working on things live so this is a NON-issue.

Well, I'll tell you this much. When we would work on things back when, there were certain systems that you just didn't shutdown period. So yes we worked on LIVE circuits. But anyways, that was part of their reasoning for no daisy chains as circuit survivability. Big time power UPS systems didn't really exist yet to carry the load of systems for the duration of what a outlet repair might have been. Obviously things are alittle different now but those were some of their reasons. The other big reason is that at the beginning of the run you would have 15-20 amps of load on that tiny contact that went from the bottom outlet to the top that was carrying your current. Their concern was a burned out tab could take a whole system down. That part definately makes sense to me.

 

[EricS]

that is for anything with a split neutral
aka kitchen countertops
you split that neutral and you now have 240 across whatever is on that circuit now

Hi awdblazer,
Went back and looking at the code book but don't see anything that that it only applies to split neutral...CEC 4-034(4) is the only reference I found,as an apprentice I'm still learning and if you could at least give me a hint as to the code refrerence that says it only applies to split neutrals I would be most grateful

thanks,
Eric

 

[PhantomEB]

My shop will be daisy chained each other outlet so two circuits per wall but in conduit, so if I need to cut one wire down, wont be hard to just fish new wire thru.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Well, I'll tell you this much. When we would work on things back when, there were certain systems that you just didn't shutdown period. So yes we worked on LIVE circuits. But anyways, that was part of their reasoning for no daisy chains as circuit survivability. Big time power UPS systems didn't really exist yet to carry the load of systems for the duration of what a outlet repair might have been. Obviously things are alittle different now but those were some of their reasons. The other big reason is that at the beginning of the run you would have 15-20 amps of load on that tiny contact that went from the bottom outlet to the top that was carrying your current. Their concern was a burned out tab could take a whole system down. That part definately makes sense to me.

OK fine, and this still holds true, BUT....we are not talking about some commercial/industrial/professional building with critical circuits. This is someone's home shop. There is absolutely NO REASON for anyone, ESPECIALLY a DIYer to be working live.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

In the US, NEC requires that, for multiwire circuits, you install the receptacles or other devices so that the removal of one (temporary or permanent) will not interrupt the neutral (grounded conductor) of the circuit. If you are going to pigtail one, might as well do them all.

In my metal building, I ran conduit on top of the 7 ft purlins and placed junction boxes at the point where outlets were to be installed (posts and columns) and ran conduit down the post or column to a 4x4 deep box with the receptacles. I pigtailed from the upper box in the conduit run, down to the receptacle box.

Major issue is that if you are installing GFCI receptacles to protect a circuit, you need to wire them in the first position in the circuit and use the pass thru feature. After that, you can pigtail the remainder of the receptacles. Otherwise, you will need to use GFCI circuit breakers.

Charles

 

[KenC]

The rules for resi and commercial work are the same. Pigtaling is NOT required by code. In commercial work it is pretty much SOP though. Typically because it is in the job specs.

I can't see how anyone would think it is easier to fold the wires in with pigtailing. It is MUCH easier using the device screws.
Also, the old "you can work on a box without disrupting the other receptacles" thing is WONRG. You should NOT be working on things live so this is a NON-issue.

So, if you had a recpt fail, you would shut down the circuit while checking it out, and running to the supply house to get another, even if it's the next day? Me, I would shut it down, pull the bad unit, close the breaker and take my time with the replacement. That way my beverage cooler could keep coolin'! To each his own I guess. And, yes I have had a couple of recpts break. My fault, stepped on a cord that was plugged in and broke the cord cap and recpt. Other time I dropped a cylinder head, same result.

And, I just don't see how anyone could think folding 4 12g wires into a box is easier than 4???

 

[Speedy Petey]

So, if you had a recpt fail, you would shut down the circuit while checking it out, and running to the supply house to get another, even if it's the next day? Me, I would shut it down, pull the bad unit, close the breaker and take my time with the replacement. That way my beverage cooler could keep coolin'! To each his own I guess.

WHAT are you on about???
What does splicing have to do with running to the supply house???
And WHY would I have to leave a circuit off for a day???
AND....we are NOT talking about me. I was talking about a DIYer, and how they should NOT be working live.


Sorry, but this whole post make NO sense.

 

[kert]

So, if you had a recpt fail, you would shut down the circuit while checking it out, and running to the supply house to get another, even if it's the next day? Me, I would shut it down, pull the bad unit, close the breaker and take my time with the replacement. That way my beverage cooler could keep coolin'! To each his own I guess. And, yes I have had a couple of recpts break. My fault, stepped on a cord that was plugged in and broke the cord cap and recpt. Other time I dropped a cylinder head, same result.

And, I just don't see how anyone could think folding 4 12g wires into a box is easier than 4???

First thought was put a couple wire nuts on before you leave, but if you have to run to the supply house for a receptacle, there's a good chance you don't carry wire nuts either.

 

[egdede]

Use pig tails, especially if there is a shared neutral.

 

[Falcon67]

I use pigtails. I used all 4" boxes with the nice covers that mount the plugs. Easy to mount the boxes where I wanted, then ran the feed wiring (MC cable), then just sat at the bench building plug covers.

"Master" outlet (with GFCI) is on the left, plug runs branch out in both directions with MC cables

 

[tfi racing]

Hi awdblazer,
Went back and looking at the code book but don't see anything that that it only applies to split neutral...CEC 4-034(4) is the only reference I found,as an apprentice I'm still learning and if you could at least give me a hint as to the code refrerence that says it only applies to split neutrals I would be most grateful

thanks,
Eric

You omitted the first line of that subrule,go have another read.

 

[383 240z]

Can somebody post a photo of this? I'm way more visual with this stuff.

I'm guessing this is what you mean? With the middle of the circuit box, do you have to remove the tabs between the screws? Keith

 

[kbs2244]

The way the illustration shows it will only work if you leave the tabs between the screws in place.

It is not pig tailed.

It is a single circuit.

 

[383 240z]

Yea I am seeing that now. Any pics of the pigtailed version? Keith

 

[pattenp]

 

[383 240z]

If I do it that way, do I have to pull a red wire? Or can I use the black wire that I have? Keith

 

[pattenp]

Use the black wire.

 

[EricS]

You omitted the first line of that subrule,go have another read.

"Where conductors of a multi-wire branch circuit are installed..."
Thanks Tfi,
My bad,reading that line I pictured multiple receptacles I need to slow down and read EVERY word carefully.

Eric