Dating Proto ratchets

[old salvage]

Does anyone know when they switched from chrome to black cover plates ?
How bout when they started stamping 'professional' on tools ?
To negate some of the stupidness of my question here's a pic of two 5249's I got at a yard sale this weekend (2 bucks each). If that doesnt do it feel free to hijack this thread.

 

[foul_ball]

lacking the knowledge for an educated response, I'll opt for being a smart ***.

Those two lovely ladies are cheap dates! Keepers for sure...

 

[old salvage]

And neither one knows about the other

 

[Merkava_4]

Remember, no kissing on the first date.

 

[cruiser808]

Salvage, unlike Snap-on, Plomb/Proto has never given us a clear date of manufacture. Since I have alot of Proto stuff, I'll try to help.

I checked my 1963, 1984, 1991 and 2003 Proto catalogs and this is what I figure. Your Proto ratchets were made somewhere between the late sixties to late seventies. The reason I say this is that the ratchets that have the silver finish plates and the square PROTO logo on them are pre-Stanley. By 1984, Stanley had taken over from IR (it's on the catalog) and changed the PROTO logo to round letters. This still exists today. Also, the 1984 catalog shows both types of ratchets, black face and silver face showing a possible transition.

Please be advised, this is just my first shot at this, so I'll defer to others and check more of my stuff when I get a chance. I also have some Plomb/Proto LA stuff. that I will pull out. With enough feedback from this group, I'm sure we can narrow it down even more. By the way, great find!

 

[old salvage]

Cruiser
thanks a zillion!
I had seen these ratchets in pics and thought they looked awkward and that the heads were too big. Then I saw them at the yard sale, picked them up and was immediately taken. Along with two breaker bars, and a couple of adjustable wrenches they are my only Proto tools. I'm on the lookout for more now though. They all feel so well made and balanced.


Merkava
I already stripped them and put fresh grease inside.

 

[billymade]

Funny, I feel the same way as you; I never considered buying one in the past because I thought they were low quality but my latest pawn shop deal has changed my mind! This "double duty" caught my eyes because of the 1/2" x 3/8" double drives and I thought people on this board would get a kick out of it. Now that I have cleaned it and put it back together I really like it; the only downside is some of the teeth are broken. I will be looking for other ones now!

 

[old salvage]

^^^
Thats a great tool for a go to box or to keep in your vehicle.
I was wondering when you first posted that if its possible to get a new regular gear and weld the extra drive plug on without ruining the temper.

 

[wrenchr]

Here is one to consider. Not mine for the record.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stanley-Proto-B...ryZ20773QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[billymade]

Huh, good question! I wish they would have parts for it but from the look of the Patent date it is from the 50s-60s era; I doubt they have parts! I wonder if there is NOS rebuild kits out there in some old warehouse or old timers toolbox? It is a cool tool, too bad its teeth are partially broken! I'm sure if I was a machinist I could redo the teeth or something!

 

[cruiser808]

Cruiser
thanks a zillion!
I had seen these ratchets in pics and thought they looked awkward and that the heads were too big. Then I saw them at the yard sale, picked them up and was immediately taken. Along with two breaker bars, and a couple of adjustable wrenches they are my only Proto tools. I'm on the lookout for more now though. They all feel so well made and balanced.


Merkava
I already stripped them and put fresh grease inside.

Yes, the heads on th 5245's are way too big! If you work on compact cars, you should go Snap-on or any of the other truck tools. But, if you work on BIG nasty stuff like coastal seawalls or electric plants, then Proto will do just fine. Hey, I use the smaller PROTO stuff all the time to fix my family cars, and even some serious classic cars here in Hawaii.

 

[cruiser808]

Funny, I feel the same way as you; I never considered buying one in the past because I thought they were low quality but my latest pawn shop deal has changed my mind! This "double duty" caught my yes because of the 1/2" x 3/8" double drives and I thought people on this board would get a kick out of it. Now that I have cleaned it and put it back together I really like it; the only downside is some of the teeth are broken. I will be looking for other ones now!

Well, from a historic standpoint on trying to get to a patent, this particular ratchet was the brain child of a Mr. Irwin R. Vogal in 1957. It seems he and Proto depended on the Vogal company to complete the patent. I
don't know, but I do have the Proto ratchet that Vogel suggested with the pat. number.

 

[wrenchr]

Well, from a historic standpoint on trying to get to a patent, this particular ratchet was the brain child of a Mr. Irwin R. Vogal in 1957. It seems he and Proto depended on the Vogal company to complete the patent. I
don't know, but I do have the Proto ratchet that Vogel suggested with the pat. number.

That design dates back to the plomb days.

 

[eschoendorff]

Huh, good question! I wish they would have parts for it but from the look of the Patent date it is from the 50s-60s era; I doubt they have parts! I wonder if there is NOS rebuild kits out there in some old warehouse or old timers toolbox? It is a cool tool, too bad its teeth are partially broken! I'm sure if I was a machinist I could redo the teeth or something!

I dunno... that design is still in use today. I feel pretty confident that you should still be able to get parts.

These Proto ratchets are robust, but bulky and the 24 tooth design is pretty archaic.

Simply put, if you are looking fro a go-to ratchet, there are better units out there for the money. But if you find one of these at a garage sale or pawn shop for a couple buck, buy all mean buy them!

 

[old salvage]

Huh, good question! I wish they would have parts for it but from the look of the Patent date it is from the 50s-60s era; I doubt they have parts! I wonder if there is NOS rebuild kits out there in some old warehouse or old timers toolbox?

Yup, you never know. Whole 60 yr old boxes of identical sockets have shown up on e-bay . Have seen lots of rebuild kits for craftsman ratchets too.

 

[cruiser808]

That design dates back to the plomb days.

That well may be, however the Vogel Tool Co. version was patented August 27, 1957. Mr Vogel filed for this back on Dec. 27, 1955. Pat. No. 2,803,980.

 

[billymade]

This is marked on the gear plate; I wonder if Vogel Designed for Proto or just OEM'd by Proto for Vogel; what came first the chicken or the egg? I have been trying to dig up some info on Vogel or the company and haven't had much luck except for this website which may not be related: http://www.vogeltool.com/

 

[cruiser808]

Proto made another model with dual 3/8" drives.

 

[billymade]

So, you have one just like mine it looks like; does yours have the "BY PROTO FOR VOGEL TOOL CO. DOUBLE DUTY" on the gear plate on both or either of these as well? I just emailed Vogel Tool Co. to see if they made our ratchets; probably not related but worth a inquiry!

 

[cruiser808]

So, you have one just like mine it looks like; does yours have the "BY PROTO FOR VOGEL TOOL CO. DOUBLE DUTY" on the gear plate on both or either of these as well? I just emailed Vogel Tool Co. to see if they made our ratchets; probably not related but worth a inquiry!

Yes, the long one. The short one with the dual 3/8" drives simply says "5249 Proto, Los Angeles, MFD USA". Let us know how your inquiry turns out.

 

[billymade]

One thing that is odd is that your 5249 is a good Proto # and is still a currently shipping item; I wonder if the drive got swapped out somehow or they didn't bother to change the # on the body?
http://www.google.com/products?clie...a=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

 

[cruiser808]

One thing that is odd is that your 5249 is a good Proto # and is still a currently shipping item; I wonder if the drive got swapped out somehow or they didn't bother to change the # on the body?
http://www.google.com/products?clie...a=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

Well, perhaps, but I really don't think so. The ratchet, while very old, is in almost new condition and has same patina throughout, including the gear. Additionally, the gear would have had to come from somewhere and exactly fit the 5249 body. The dual gear also has 24 teeth like its one-sided cousin. A mystery to be sure.

 

[krusty the clown]

That well may be, however the Vogel Tool Co. version was patented August 27, 1957. Mr Vogel filed for this back on Dec. 27, 1955. Pat. No. 2,803,980.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=ynhpAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=0_1

 

[Tool Pants]

Some time ago I saw on ebay a double headed Proto ratchet made for Vogel, 3/8" and 1/2" drives. I checked here to get the scoop. Then another one showed up on ebay and at the same time, the one with dual 3/8" drives.

I got sniped on the dual 3/8" but won the Vogel. Seller says it is in very good condition and shows little signs of use, so I hope when I get it and take it apart I do not see broken teeth like billymade.

I can understand the 3/8" x 1/2" Vogel. I do not understand the reason for the dual 3/8".

 

[48548]

I was going to bid on the dual 3/8 the other day, but didn't really see the point of it, and instead bought two 5248s protos, the 1/4 body with a 3/8 head, as i like to know that I have tools that have a purpose and the dual 3/8 didn't make any sense to me, and would also cause it to stick out even more.

 

[Tool Pants]

I received the Proto for Vogel today.

Weird. No signs of it having ever been used. May take it apart this weekend to see what is inside.

Did Plomb have this dual head style?

How about Urrea for both styles?

 

[Tool Pants]

Here it is apart. Typical Proto design with 24 teeth. I see no signs it has ever been used. The gear and the dual drives are chrome plated. Think I'm going to contact the seller to find out how he has a new old ratchet. Maybe because it was weird the owner never used it....

It came with the 3/8" drive facing the shift lever, like billymade's picture. But as you can see from the last 2 pictures it can be assembled either way.

Now I need to find the dual 3/8" drive version.

For billymade, check out Urrea and see if they have a replacement gear.

 

[old salvage]

Wow! Thats in great condition !

 

[billymade]

Wow, X2! That thing is mint! By the way; the vogel email inquiry didn't go anywhere... this current Vogel tool company start in the 80s or 90s and they specialize in machine tools.
I'm assuming that yours must be a newer production unit; because, my gear plate said "patent pending" and yours actually has the patent # on it!

 

[Plombob]

I received the Proto for Vogel today.

Weird. No signs of it having ever been used. May take it apart this weekend to see what is inside.

Did Plomb have this dual head style?

How about Urrea for both styles?

Plomb never made a dual headed design. However, if you find a spare Vogel gear, it will fit the Plomb rat.

 

[Plombob]

Wow, X2! That thing is mint! By the way; the vogel email inquiry didn't go anywhere... this current Vogel tool company start in the 80s or 90s and they specialize in machine tools.
I'm assuming that yours must be a newer production unit; because, my gear plate said "patent pending" and yours actually has the patent # on it!

25 years ago there was a Vogel Tool at 11221 Venice Blvd. in Los Angeles. It was a large tool store and had a lot of vintage and military tools. I saw the rat there. Could have been THE Vogel, but I'm not sure. As far as I know, they are gone.

 

[Plombob]

^^^
Thats a great tool for a go to box or to keep in your vehicle.
I was wondering when you first posted that if its possible to get a new regular gear and weld the extra drive plug on without ruining the temper.

Ratchet repair kits are available, and I hear they are free, although I've paid for them at dealers.

 

[petty4243]

call this number for proto customer service...1-800-800-TOOL... they have maid me several ratchet kits for no charge... not even a shipping charge

 

[Tool Pants]

Proto for Vogel. I did ask the seller where he got a new old ratchet . An estate sale he said.

One drive for metric and the other for inch.

Belive it or not.

 

[Tool Pants]

If anyone is interested there is one on ebay. A bit different because the plate does not have the Proto name.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=190321875721

 

[Uncle Buck]

Good luck finding a gut kit for that one eh!

 

[Tool Pants]

3 months late, I'm really going to see double. Just won on ebay the Proto 3/8" double drive version. Thank you Mr. Vogel.

The plate on this one has a standard Proto/Plomb 5249 part number for a normal 3/8" drive.

When I receive the 3/8" x 3/8" I'll take it apart. It does not look to be in the as new condition as the 3/8" x 1/2" Vogel. Pictures are from ebay because I do not have it yet.

 

[cruiser808]

Good luck finding a gut kit for that one eh!

So true. But all is not lost as the ratchet body will still accept a conventional 5249 3/8" gear repair kit from Proto.

By the way, great find, Tool Pants.

 

[MOPARHOUND!]

Saw that auction, cancelled snipe late, pursuing another ratchet up for auction. Have a Proto 3/8" x 3/8" example in the collection, but it has industrial finish. Good to see that one went to someone on the board.

 

[Tool Pants]

Here is the Proto 5249, except it has a double 3/8" drive. Now my Proto/Vogle 3/8" x 1/2" drive has a little buddy.

Time to take it apart.