Daughter's Panel Surprise

[Max]

I've seen a lot of really bad panels in this sub forum, and I thought that it might be fun to see a panel that was well done. Not my work - it's in my daughter's recently bought house near Seattle. The house is about 30 years old.

I did add two more breakers myself, but it was as neat and clean when I was done. The only bad part was that there is no outside disconnect, so the bottom feeders were always hot. I'm a wimp and would have preferred them off if possible.

 

[PCustoms]

I've seen a lot of really bad panels in this sub forum, and I thought that it might be fun to see a panel that was well done. Not my work - it's in my daughter's recently bought house near Seattle. The house is about 30 years old.

I did add two more breakers myself, but it was as neat and clean when I was done. The only bad part was that there is no outside disconnect, so the bottom feeders were always hot. I'm a wimp and would have preferred them off if possible.

Mwbc?

 

[Max]

Mwbc?

Nope. I put in two separate 20A outlet sets in the garage. (12g Cu, Yes to GFCI, yes to TR outlets.) 20A was required by the 2 HP 20A @ 120VGrizzly table saw and once I put in one...

 

[PCustoms]

Nope. I put in two separate 20A outlet sets in the garage. (12g Cu, Yes to GFCI, yes to TR outlets.) 20A was required by the 2 HP 20A @ 120VGrizzly table saw and once I put in one...

Really?

What's with all the red wires, and what looks like 12/3?

 

[Max]

Really?

What's with all the red wires, and what looks like 12/3?

I'm sorry, I thought that you meant my added wiring. Yes most of the original wiring is mwbc. I have another shot of the top of the panel on my phone and most of the nmb is 12/3.

 

[Norcal]

It's neat and not a trash panel like Eaton BR, so doing good. The Siemens breaker does not belong there.

 

[Max]

It's neat and not a trash panel like Eaton BR, so doing good. The Siemens breaker does not belong there.

Good eye. I’ll replace that guy the when I am out there at Christmas.

 

[larry4406]

If those are MWB circuits, shouldn't the black and red adjacent breaker pairs of the MWBC be handle tied?

 

[mike93lx]

If those are MWB circuits, shouldn't the black and red adjacent breaker pairs of the MWBC be handle tied?

That became a requirement in the 08 code cycle, IIRC

 

[Max]

That became a requirement in the 08 code cycle, IIRC

And it’s a 30 year old house. Still, it’s not much work so if I get bored at our Christmas visit….

 

[mike93lx]

And it’s a 30 year old house. Still, it’s not much work so if I get bored at our Christmas visit….

You might be able to grab a bag of clip on handle ties and make it a $20, 5 minute project

 

[Max]

You might be able to grab a bag of clip on handle ties and make it a $20, 5 minute project

I agree - especially as I’ll already be in the panel to replace the Siemens breaker. Although given the higher prices and taxes in WA I think I’ll buy them here.

 

[mike93lx]

I agree - especially as I’ll already be in the panel to replace the Siemens breaker. Although given the higher prices and taxes in WA I think I’ll buy them here.

Wait til you find out about online shopping. It'll blow your mind

 

[starquestMM]

i'm jealous of the main being on the bottom next to the feed. 0/2 in that reguard here.

 

[mike93lx]

i'm jealous of the main being on the bottom next to the feed. 0/2 in that reguard here.

Are your main and feed on opposite ends of the panel? Or are you saying your's is top feed and top main?

 

[starquestMM]

Opposite ends, both old house and this one are bottom feed and top main. defiantly makes it harder to work in :/

 

[Max]

Wait til you find out about online shopping. It'll blow your mind

I bought all of the tools and had them delivered before I got there. So I had stuff like a multi-tool for drywall ready to go.

But the two outlets I put in, plus the whole house fan were too unknown to pre-order. I do wish I had brought the wire though - THHN was $31.91 for 50' and $59.26 for 100'. 100' of 14-2 was $69.35 and 12-2 was $91. Add in over 10% sales tax and I was hurting.

Edited to add: locally, 100' of 12-2 is $80 so $11 cheaper, 50' of THHN is the same price.

 

[Max]

Opposite ends, both old house and this one are bottom feed and top main. defiantly makes it harder to work in :/

Do you have an outside disconnect or do you have to do the "don't touch that dance" that I had to do?

 

[Norcal]

i'm jealous of the main being on the bottom next to the feed. 0/2 in that reguard here.

I hate when someone with 1 more brain cell then a cow, puts the main lugs/breaker at the top on a bottom fed panel, many decades ago one had to with a vertically mounted main breaker but there is no excuse today with horizontally operated handle in current loadcenter designs. Oh and the reason we know they had one more brain cell then a cow, 'cause they didn't **** over everything.

 

[starquestMM]

Do you have an outside disconnect or do you have to do the "don't touch that dance" that I had to do?

no disconnect also. Working towards solar, so that'll be an improvement.

 

[cmandp]

I bought all of the tools and had them delivered before I got there. So I had stuff like a multi-tool for drywall ready to go.

But the two outlets I put in, plus the whole house fan were too unknown to pre-order. I do wish I had brought the wire though - THHN was $31.91 for 50' and $59.26 for 100'. 100' of 14-2 was $69.35 and 12-2 was $91. Add in over 10% sales tax and I was hurting.

Edited to add: locally, 100' of 12-2 is $80 so $11 cheaper, 50' of THHN is the same price.

I do wonder how TSA would react to bringing a spool wire as a carry on. I wouldn't want to try it in case they take it away

 

[Norcal]

I do wonder how TSA would react to bringing a spool wire as a carry on. I wouldn't want to try it in case they take it away

I flew back with some 2/0 copper cable.

 

[sparky 1971]

You might be able to grab a bag of clip on handle ties and make it a $20, 5 minute project

That looks like a Homeline to me and Square D handle ties are a joke, take the breakers out, install the tie then try to snap both breakers in at the same time without dropping anything even thought the guy in the video makes it look easy. I wonder if a Siemens or BR would fit instead?

 

[mike93lx]

That looks like a Homeline to me and Square D handle ties are a joke, take the breakers out, install the tie then try to snap both breakers in at the same time without dropping anything even thought the guy in the video makes it look easy. I wonder if a Siemens or BR would fit instead?

The lack of a sq d logo makes me think they aren't. But now I can see the homeline logo on the right side. Good eye

 

[PCustoms]

The lack of a sq d logo makes me think they aren't. Murray MP? If that's the case, the Siemens make be ok

I'd bet money that's a SQ D homeline panel, but you're right, I don't see any logo on the breakers

 

[sparky 1971]

The lack of a sq d logo makes me think they aren't. Murray MP? If that's the case, the Siemens make be ok

I'm pretty sure it's Homeline, they weren't proud enough of them 30 years ago to put their name on the breakers like they do now. The main looks like a QOM2200 to me.

 

[mike93lx]

I'm pretty sure it's Homeline, they weren't proud enough of them 30 years ago to put their name on the breakers like they do now. The main looks like a QOM2200 to me.

Yeah, I went back and edited. You are right

 

[PCustoms]

Yeah, I went back and edited. You are right

Enhance!

 

[sparky 1971]

Yeah, I went back and edited. You are right

And the handle ties are still a joke!

 

[Max]

It is indeed a Square D Homeline panel. Sorry that I didn't see your comments earlier. BTW, it's fortunate that it has a lot of extra spaces as it will not accept Square D tandem breakers.

If I can, I will use these guys - sturdier and no breaker removal required.

Square D Homeline Plastic Handle Tie for 2 Pole Breakers

This Square D Homeline Plastic Handle Tie is designed for use with 2 pole breakers. Made from durable plastic, it securely connects the handles of two breakers.

www.sselectricalsupply.com

 

[sparky 1971]

It is indeed a Square D Homeline panel. Sorry that I didn't see your comments earlier. BTW, it's fortunate that it has a lot of extra spaces as it will not accept Square D tandem breakers.

If I can, I will use these guys - sturdier and no breaker removal required.

Square D Homeline Plastic Handle Tie for 2 Pole Breakers

This Square D Homeline Plastic Handle Tie is designed for use with 2 pole breakers. Made from durable plastic, it securely connects the handles of two breakers.

www.sselectricalsupply.com

The top five slots will accept tandems. The notches in the bus stab are there for that reason. I've never seen those handle ties for SqD, that's the way to go whether they are listed or not.

 

[Max]

The top five slots will accept tandems. The notches in the bus stab are there for that reason. I've never seen those handle ties for SqD, that's the way to go whether they are listed or not.

Thank you! I found out about the whole notch thing because the first breaker I bought was tandem and it didn't work. Then I compared with and old one and figured out the notch depth problem. Sadly I tried it in slot #6 and never tried the upper slots...

 

[mike93lx]

Thank you! I found out about the whole notch thing because the first breaker I bought was tandem and it didn't work. Then I compared with and old one and figured out the notch depth problem. Sadly I tried it in slot #6 and never tried the upper slots...

If you look at the label on the cover, it will show those spaces differently, indicating that tandems are allowed

 

[Poolshark314]

The only bad part was that there is no outside disconnect, so the bottom feeders were always hot. I'm a wimp and would have preferred them off if possible.

Could always add the covers to the lugs to help prevent accidentally hitting one

 

[lund]

I do wonder how TSA would react to bringing a spool wire as a carry on. I wouldn't want to try it in case they take it away

Ha. I pack wire a lot since I regularly fly in to Cali from Michigan and I can get supplies much cheaper in Michigan and save time going to the store. I think TSA sees everything under the sun on their scans. But my suitcases often flag attention. It is not a big deal. Just do not lock them. If they search they will just open and leave a tag. I have never been delayed or called for it.

But do not pack batteries of any type outside of carry ons. There is a lot of paranoia over that and scanners will probably pick them up. It is a legit safety issue also since controlled space fires on a plane would be problematic and Lithium Ion batteries in particular can burn strongly. I also wonder on the logic of leaving hybrid or electric cars in attached garages or solar battery packs given the capacity for those to burn. Yes, I realize gas burns too ... but it is harder to ignite than many think and battery fires can be scary hard to put out. I suspect usa lawyers will have a field day as the number of in-house battery fires inevitably go up.