Day 5 on Generator power

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

We have been on backup generator power since last Wednesday (2/22) when an ice storm came through southern Michigan.

This is the first long stretch we have had to use the generator since installation.
Prior to this we have put a total of around 30 hours on the generator in 10ish years.

Other than being out of town when it happened and having to walk the wife through hookup, all has been running flawlessly.

Only thing I may change in my set up is to get a propane conversion kit so it can be a dual fuel unit.
This does two things: 1) Fuel storage is almost indefinite & 2) Amount of fuel storage can be much larger.

 

[dcg9381]

How big is your generator? Sounds like you're able to fetch gas...
Are you running 24/7?

 

[mike93lx]

Propane works well if you put in a big tank. Using small tanks can freeze them up, and a 20lb cylinder only holds about 4 gallons.

I used to run a portable generator on 40lb tanks. Run time was fine, but they would freeze in the winter when getting low. Could always use them for long term storage and then go out and get gas during a long outage.

Good luck, hope the power gets restored soon

 

[dcg9381]

I've got a 500 gallon propane tank, with a 20KW generator, it'd be dead in about a week. I think I calculated about $7/hr in fuel costs to run... But when you need it, you need it... Sounds like yours is portable though, so other than hauling gas, you should be good.

You sound much better prepared than most. What do people do up there 5 days w/o power?

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Yeah, I have been reviewing the fuel consumption, now that we have run it long enough.
On Gasoline It is consuming around 1 gallon / hour.
So on Propane likely slightly more, thinking of a 300 Gallon tank, which would get me a 7-10 day run capability.

Unit I have is a Generac GP17500E
16 Gallon fuel capacity so fill 2x a day, which is not bad running 24/7.

Two feeds - why I picked this generator and a portable.
30Amp feed to my garage w/ interlock inside panel.
50Amp feed to my house w/ interlock inside meter socket.
(One Meter w/ two main panels essentially)

But I travel for work, had to walk wife through hook up on the phone, as I was in KC when things went dark.
She got it done, but would like to have it where she won't have to fuel it while I'm not home.

Ice line was about 5 miles south of us (OH state line) and gasoline is easy to get.

I've got a 500 gallon propane tank, with a 20KW generator, it'd be dead in about a week. I think I calculated about $7/hr in fuel costs to run... But when you need it, you need it... Sounds like yours is portable though, so other than hauling gas, you should be good.

You sound much better prepared than most. What do people do up there 5 days w/o power?

People get cold, move in with friends/family who have power, Hotels were full - if they had power.
Life goes on I guess.

 

[dcg9381]

People get cold, move in with friends/family who have power, Hotels were full - if they had power.
Life goes on I guess.

What prevents freezing waterlines, etc? Down here in Texas, massive damage when houses froze due to lack of power.

Interesting way to use two feeds... Never seen that before!

 

[mike93lx]

What prevents freezing waterlines, etc? Down here in Texas, massive damage when houses froze due to lack of power.

Interesting way to use two feeds... Never seen that before!

If I didn't have backup power, I'd shutoff the water and drain what I can. Don't turn it back on until the heat has been back on for a bit

 

[dcg9381]

If I didn't have backup power, I'd shutoff the water and drain what I can. Don't turn it back on until the heat has been back on for a bit

That's what I'd do too, but around here none of our houses were setup with low point drains (no basements). It bit a bunch of people in the *** as city water stayed on, lots of people coming home to flooded houses/yards.

 

[mike93lx]

That's what I'd do too, but around here none of our houses were setup with low point drains (no basements). It bit a bunch of people in the *** as city water stayed on, lots of people coming home to flooded houses/yards.

Even without a basement/crawl space drain, you can get a lot of water out of the pipe. Either way, shutting off the water will stop the major damage. A burst pipe when there isn't pressure coming behind it isn't generally going to be terrible

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Fortunately it has not been really cold, lows around freezing highs have been in the 40's-50's since the power has gone out.

If you don't have back up heat / generator, you would have to drain water lines to prevent freezing.

The two feeds originally was due to the well pump being off the garage panel.
The Well was replaced and now is off house. Garage panel feeds small detached garage (Single 20a circuit), chicken coop (Single 20a Circuit) and hot tub.
It has been VERY nice to sit in the hot tub after running the chainsaw all day. Even if I can only run one circulation pump! If I try to run both pumps the 30amp on the generator trips a side.

 

[P51Mustang]

Being without power for a long time does ****. Sounds like you are getting by fairly well. I have been there and do feel for you. We had a derecho go thru here back in the summer of 2020. The 100 mph plus winds did a number on the power lines and we were without power for 8 days. After the pain of feeding a 5500w gas generator every 6 to 8 hours for 8 days, the wife and I decided to man up and get a standby generator system. The generator is on its own 500 gal propane tank and we went big enough to run everything in the house and shop (24kw). It is a nice feeling knowing that we are covered even if we are not home (I would worry about my sump pump) Could be something to think about as my gut feel is that these kind of outages are going to become more common.

Lets hope that you get back on line soon!

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I just called my LP supplier to see if they would lease me a tank for generator use only.

Unfortunately the location of my existing 300 gallon tank (opposite side of house across the drive from my generator hook up) prevents me from just putting in a 500 gallon and putting in a T. That would be way to easy.

If leasing is not an option I will have to go the route of purchasing a tank. Which is quite pricey from what I am finding.

I did order a propane dual fuel kit for my generator yesterday. http://www.propane-generators.com/kit_installation.php

When the time approaches they have "estimated" restoration for the day, it has got bumped twice. Each time just 24H, I'm certain it is just a computer guessing.

The generator shut down on me this morning, I was like WTF? Did a quick look and it had consumed enough oil that the unit shut down. At least I know the oil pressure switch is operational.

No sump pump here, we are on a hill and basement drains to daylight on side of the hill.
Biggest concern is freezing this time of year.
With the two feed system I have I couldn't do an automatic one unfortunately.
This works great for our electrical set up with the exception of fuel consumption / refueling.

 

[dcg9381]

I just called my LP supplier to see if they would lease me a tank for generator use only.

Unfortunately the location of my existing 300 gallon tank (opposite side of house across the drive from my generator hook up) prevents me from just putting in a 500 gallon and putting in a T. That would be way to easy.

If leasing is not an option I will have to go the route of purchasing a tank. Which is quite pricey from what I am finding.

You could "trench around" the house, if the house LP inlet is on the other side. My generator actually has it's own regulator.

Prior to having the 500 gallon LP tank (which I think cost around $3k), I kept (2) x 100 lb propane tanks around filled.

The other option is to install a "wet kit" on your existing tank so you can fill your own propane bottles.... Most companies won't do this for you, but you can buy the parts online.

 

[mike93lx]

With the two feed system I have I couldn't do an automatic one unfortunately.

You have two services?

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

May have a score on a used 500 Gallon tank for cheap.
Waiting on response on date / certification.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

You have two services?

One service/meter.
Two feeds to main panels.

Described above.

 

[mike93lx]

One service/meter.
Two feeds/main panels.

Then you just need your transfer switch right after the meter with the two feeds tied to that

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Already wired and own this system, not changing it at this point.

 

[P51Mustang]

We live on 6 acres (we are on a well so no power, no water). My power comes in from the road to my meter pole. I have a junction box on the pole where the line power is split to a feed to the house, a feed to my two car garage (not a very high amp feed) and a feed to my shop building (the other out buildings are feed from the panel in the shop). This may be somewhat like what you have as the meter does basically feed two main panels. I had the generator and its tank placed close to the meter pole and the auto transfer switch placed between the meter and the junction box. The generator tank ended up about 200 foot from my other tank. Here is a photo of my set up.

I get my propane from a local company that is very easy to work with but he also did not want to lease a tank for the generator. This was OK as I did not want to lease the tank anyway (I also own my other tank). Tank costs have gone up a bunch (at least double since 2020 he told me). He sold me a tank for about $1200 installed (this may have been a deal as I do know the guy, I did not check with anyone else). He did give me the option of putting in a tee on the existing tank and running a gas line to the generator but I did not like this idea as with the stand alone tank I know that it will always have enough gas for the generator for just in case (plus it would have been a long run). He figured that we may have to top off the generator tank around every seven years if it only runs on the weekly check out run.

I had the same problem with low oil a couple of times when I was running my small generator those 8 days. I have a pole top disconnect left over from the days when my place was a farm. When I needed the generator I would pull disconnect, place my generator up by my shop, hook the generator up to a twist lock outlet that was wired into the shop panel and backfeed the shop and house. Maybe this was not the best way to do it but with the pole top disconnect it worked.

My power company made the same kind of estimates for when the power would come back. They backed it up at least three times. I did understand why as they had to basically rebuild the power lines for about 1/3 of Iowa.

Again, good luck and lets hope that you get back on line soon!

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Was notified at 2:30 this afternoon that it was restored by their automated system.

LOL - not so fast.
Still no power.
Now the map shows a larger area out which encompasses me and 99 other customers.
Before it was 34 customers.

 

[P51Mustang]

Sounds like my power company!

 

[dave*99]

I wouldn't normally make this suggestion....
But since I believe you plan to keep your portable generator and 2 plug hookup......
Consider a long flexible hose to run the propane from your large tank. Maybe then an upgrade to 500 gal would make sense?
Maybe some of that run could be in the basement to get closer to the genny location.

 

[mm08822]

Change the oil and filter(?) on the generator next time you gas it up. Sounds like it's been running hard.

Run it empty with stabilized gas before putting away,

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Not broke in yet =, extra oil consumption.

 

[cherokee]

Propane works well if you put in a big tank. Using small tanks can freeze them up, and a 20lb cylinder only holds about 4 gallons.

I used to run a portable generator on 40lb tanks. Run time was fine, but they would freeze in the winter when getting low. Could always use them for long term storage and then go out and get gas during a long outage.

Good luck, hope the power gets restored soon

Several years ago we had an ice storm and we went without for 14 days, sure hope the OP is not on it that long. It was IIRC in Oct, so the nights got quite cold, and I had the same issue you did. What I did was put the tank right next to the exhaust, I think it was just enough to keep it from freezing. I only used the little tanks and had to switch them out far too often.

Now we have one that is always attached, on an automatic transfer switch. It just uses the large tank that the entire house uses.

 

[Jeepster04]

Do you heat the house with propane?

My power was out for 3 days (I think?) and I only ran the generator for 3-4hrs a day. I have natural gas heat, so I would warm it up to 70F or so then wait till it got down to 55F in the house. It was below 32F during this time. Far as I know, no one had frozen pipes.

What prevents freezing waterlines, etc? Down here in Texas, massive damage when houses froze due to lack of power.

Interesting way to use two feeds... Never seen that before!

They had their plumbing in the attic. They set themselves up for failure. Most of the homes in my area have the plumbing in the crawlspace/basement. It would take ALONG time for that to freeze. My kitchen sink is the only plumbing that's in an exterior wall, but its evidently ok. I have pondered replumbing it and bringing it up through the floor.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Power was restored last night around 9pm

Yes the generator will get a full service after this. Oil, filters & plugs. I always stabilize the gas and close the gas valve and let her run out the gas in the line.

One of the reasons looking for an LP tank is so the wife does not have to hook things up if I’m not home. It will be a separate tank dedicated to the generator.

When tank is sourced I will provide an update.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

We heat with Fuel Oil, Existing 300 Gallon LP tank is for: Hot Water Heater, Dryer, Stove, Gas Fireplace.

 

[shaeff]

That's awesome, glad you're all set up and your wife was able to get everything going. I have a big portable generator like yours, though not quite that big. Mine's a Porter Cable 10,000 running watts, 19,500 surge with a Honda 20hp v-twin. It'll run my entire house (about 2400sqft).

I've got no place to store it and don't feel like building a wheel kit for it. It's too heavy to move from my basement to where it needs to be to hook up. For now, it stays out on the side of the house on a pallet with a plastic slipsheet to prevent ground moisture from getting at the underside. My plan was to put it in a doghouse and wire it into my basement so I don't have to leave the house to get it going, only for fuel-up.

We're on a well, propane boiler heat/hot water, and an air handler for each floor (two total). Lights are all LEDs except the basement. It'll run my central air, but only one unit at a time and it grunts when it starts but recovers quickly. I need to put some Hyper Engineering Soft Starts on the compressors, that'll help immensely.

That way, my wife would be able to take care of it all with detailed instructions. As it sits, when we lose power it's usually a nasty storm, I don't want her out in that trying to get a generator going. Eventually I'll get around to it...

As of now, it stays gassed up and ready to rock. I start it every Saturday morning to jog it and make sure it stays charged. I hit it with a desulfating charger every so often because it tends to sit for long periods of time.

Edit: NWOhioChevyGuy- do you use the idle control to reduce fuel costs for extended run times? I don't on mine, I'm always afraid of burning out the fridge or something...

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I did use the idle control this time around in an attempt to save some fuel, but seams like enough draw that it never really kicked in.

I did notice that my fridge compressor & my furnace pump sounded differently on the generator power.

 

[P51Mustang]

Good to hear your power is back. It is a nice feeling!

 

[shaeff]

I did use the idle control this time around in an attempt to save some fuel, but seams like enough draw that it never really kicked in.

I did notice that my fridge compressor & my furnace pump sounded differently on the generator power.

Might not be a bad idea to check your hz while running on idle control when your fridge and furnace run. Drop much under 60hz I believe damage can occur. I *think* the spec is like 59-63.5hz output for generators to be considered safe operating range.

Doesn't hurt to check.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

"Good on you" to the OP, for being ready for an emergency.

With a backup generator, some fuel in storage, and a well for water you should be good for a lot of needs.

In my opinion, everyone should keep whatever they would need to make it through a week or two of no utilities and no resupply. But, I bet not 1/100 do....unless you are Mormon or Amish. Those two groups seem to be prepared for loss of first-world comforts to a much greater degree than most.

 

[Drunkonunleaded]

OP, sounds like we both got caught by the same storm. We lost power from Wednesday - Friday, other family members didn't get theirs back until late Saturday night.

I had the generators running, but didn't have the foresight to determine whether my furnace could be plugged in (vs. hardwired) and I have yet to have the breaker box and transfer switch installed. Fortunately, the existing gas fireplace was enough to keep the living room and kitchen fairly warm.

One thing I got in the habit of doing was checking the oil every time I refuel the units. The current generators (Champion inverters that I runin parallel) don't burn much oil, but the older one seemed to burn an ounce per hour or so. FWIW, I only run Amsoil small engine synthetic in things such as these. Not sure if that plays a part or not.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I had the generators running, but didn't have the foresight to determine whether my furnace could be plugged in (vs. hardwired) and I have yet to have the breaker box and transfer switch installed. Fortunately, the existing gas fireplace was enough to keep the living room and kitchen fairly warm.

There are a lot more sophisticated solutions than this, but I installed a single circuit transfer switch at my furnace. I hooked in my furnace, my natural gas water heater (the power vent motor), my sump pump and one receptacle off this to plug in a miscellaneous load. The switch is less than $100. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200196724_200196724

It might have taken me an hour to wire it in...and most of that was rerouting the wire to the sump pump plug in. Fortunately I have an unfinished basement, so stringing new wire is easily accomplished.

I put it in 3 years ago or so. It hasn't been needed yet. I did test it and it works like a charm. Plug in a long extension cord, string it out the basement window to a generator, plug it in, throw the transfer switch and the generator runs the furnace, water heater vent motor, sump pump and powers up the receptacle for use to charge a cell phone or run an led work lamp or such. Gotta keep it under 15 amps total with this very basic solution.

Like I said, there's better solutions like a whole house NG backup generator with an automatic transfer switch....but I spent less than $100 rather than a few thousand $........If my power was less reliable, I'd go for the big-dollar solution....but my power company (Duke) actually has been very reliable.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

In my opinion, everyone should keep whatever they would need to make it through a week or two of no utilities and no resupply. But, I bet not 1/100 do....unless you are Mormon or Amish. Those two groups seem to be prepared for loss of first-world comforts to a much greater degree than most.

I agree with this, my fuel storage is the only thing that keeps me from having longer than a few days. Thus the reason for putting in a large Propane tank for longer run times on the generator. We are in the country, no utilities other than Power & Internet to the property so the generator is needed to have any comforts with out power. We have 3 deep freezers full of food and a pantry full of canned goods. We had the discussion with some friends and with the exception of power, we could survive on food we have in storage for 6-9 months. That is IF we can keep the freezers running.

 

[Drunkonunleaded]

There are a lot more sophisticated solutions than this, but I installed a single circuit transfer switch at my furnace. I hooked in my furnace, my natural gas water heater (the power vent motor), my sump pump and one receptacle off this to plug in a miscellaneous load. The switch is less than $100. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200196724_200196724

It might have taken me an hour to wire it in...and most of that was rerouting the wire to the sump pump plug in. Fortunately I have an unfinished basement, so stringing new wire is easily accomplished.

I put it in 3 years ago or so. It hasn't been needed yet. I did test it and it works like a charm. Plug in a long extension cord, string it out the basement window to a generator, plug it in, throw the transfer switch and the generator runs the furnace, water heater vent motor, sump pump and powers up the receptacle for use to charge a cell phone or run an led work lamp or such. Gotta keep it under 15 amps total with this very basic solution.

Like I said, there's better solutions like a whole house NG backup generator with an automatic transfer switch....but I spent less than $100 rather than a few thousand $........If my power was less reliable, I'd go for the big-dollar solution....but my power company (Duke) actually has been very reliable.

Didn't know that existed strictly for the furnace. Thanks for the tip.

I'm having power ran for my shed and a new load center installed to replace the ancient fuse panel. The plan was to install an interlock and feed the house. I considered doing a transfer switch, but with the subpanel in the garage, it may be added headache.

 

[mike93lx]

Didn't know that existed strictly for the furnace. Thanks for the tip.

I'm having power ran for my shed and a new load center installed to replace the ancient fuse panel. The plan was to install an interlock and feed the house. I considered doing a transfer switch, but with the subpanel in the garage, it may be added headache.

You are putting the interlock at the house, not the shed, right?

 

[nadogail]

My fuel storage is small because of my inability to buy Ethanol Free Gasoline. I treat the small amount of gs i store and when it gets to be about a month old I feed it to my van. I have one 20 liter can for my generator.

My house is on the same feeder as the carriers tied to the pier, so I enjoy very reliable electric service.

 

[Drunkonunleaded]

You are putting the interlock at the house, not the shed, right?

Of course. Same friend is doing all the work. It's less of a hassle to do everything at once.