Dayton ratchet and socket set

[Zrxrunner]

So I've now come across a good share of dayton tools, but not sure if I've ever found out who makes them. The markings all look like thorsen, but not sure if it was when thorsen was making their own stuff or under a parent company? Got this set missing a few pieces at an auction a few weeks ago. Ratchet was a from the same auction, but not in the same lot, so not sure if it's a part of the set or a coincidence. I dont own a computer, so limited on search capabilities with my phone on this site too. Anyone have any input on age or maker of this vintage dayton set?

 

[davethorik]

Bonney

 

[3baygarage]

Nice find. Those would be the same as Bonney production. Thorsen was also a manufacturer of Dayton though.

 

[Zrxrunner]

Figured I'd be able to match up this cool unique fine tooth ratchet too. Stamping also says CHGO-USA. Was bonney ever producing from chicago?

 

[3baygarage]

Not sure on that, but the Chicago stamp appears directly on the Dayton tools by Bonney, and not those by Thorsen.

 

[Zrxrunner]

Thanks for the tip 3bay. Was now able to match the ratchet to a 1957-60 bon-e-con ratchet on AA. All they have shown there is a 1/2 drive tho. This is a 3/8. Now to find the missing sockets.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I have a few dayton/ bonney bits and pieces and a partial thorsen made set, but no sockets!

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I have only ever found one Dayton socket it is a 13/16 spark plug socket it is in my tools that don’t get used very much so I never have used it I found it at the pawn shop with the boot still in it so I was happy


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[Oldtuleguy]

They don't seem to be common. I just pick them up when I see them.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

They don't seem to be common. I just pick them up when I see them.

Same here unfortunately I have only ever found one but that’s ok lol I am running out of room for my tools in my house and work and my parents are going crazy about me taking up the whole basement with my stuff lol I have cardboard boxes full of tools that don’t fit in any of my other boxes


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[Oldtuleguy]

A common problem among the gj members!

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

A common problem among the gj members!

LOL. Yep I can’t stay out of pawn shops they let me fill a box for $10 and when I say a box I mean like a big cardboard box because my pawn shops don’t see big value in tools I have gotten several rare or expensive ones in there lol.


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[bonneyman]

I've got a socket or two marked Dayton and the font looks very much like Thorsen sockets I have of those same sizes.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I seem to see more of the thorsen made stuff on ebay

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

The Thorsen made in my opinion is great stuff I think my socket from them is Thorsen made it has the same font as the Thorsen and I have had great luck with Thorsen over the years


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[Private Lugnutz]

So I've now come across a good share of dayton tools, but not sure if I've ever found out who makes them. The markings all look like thorsen,...[ ]...Got this set missing a few pieces at an auction a few weeks ago....[ ]...Anyone have any input on age or maker of this vintage dayton set?

Bonney

...Bonney production. Thorsen was also a manufacturer of Dayton though.

Stamping also says CHGO-USA. Was Bonney ever producing from Chicago?

Not sure on that, but the Chicago stamp appears directly on the Dayton tools by Bonney, and not those by Thorsen.

As far as I know, Bonney never had a plant in Chicago. They built a new plant in Alliance, Ohio in the mid-1950's after being purchased by Miller Mfg, and that plant was secondary to their plant in Allentown, Pa. In 1964, they were moved with Utica and Herbrand to Orangeburg, SC, by Kelsey-Hayes, an operation that became Triangle in 1967. Looks like they did that for Dayton's location.

Being a prewar/wartime 'Bonney guy', I never new that Bonney was also making drive tools for Dayton. My questions for the group are, was it in parallel to Thorsen making them? Or was it sequential? If sequential, which is my hunch, I think it was Bonney first, then Thorsen, which is also my hunch.

Attached is a photo of my Dayton set, made by Thorsen sometime after 1964 (decal includes a Zip Code).

Except for the slightly askew decal on the lid, it is, without any shred of doubt thee most perfect socket set I own, from any era, in any drive size. I would add "ironically" to that, because I don't tend to collect chrome, or postwar tools, but it's relative youth compared to most of the other tools/sets I collect clearly contributes to its mint-y pristine condition. On top of that, I am convinced the tools themselves never touched a nut or bolt or each other. In addition to the completeness and the condition, I was impressed that all the sockets are 6-point. If you want to see close-ups, I posted many more photos on the Thorsen thread page 24, posts #465 and #466.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I think herbrand ,bonney predated thorsen, though some overlap is certainly possible. Dayton is a grainger house brand.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I think herbrand ,bonney predated thorsen, though some overlap is certainly possible. Dayton is a grainger house brand.

Is it? I thought their brand was Westward we used to have a large Grainger here and that is the brand they sold don’t recall seeing Dayton there.


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[Oldtuleguy]

Don't know if they are still using that brand for hand tools.

 

[3baygarage]

Can’t see your photo here Lugz.

Zrxrunner and OTG combined are showing 3 Bonney made examples. There are two others, the (well know Bonney) tri wing round head, and the pear head (Bonney/Herbrand) with snap ring and knurled handle. I feel like they also utilized the 1/4 dr slide button (Bonney/Herbrand) rat for Dayton. These type ratchets are all found in the 1967 Bonney catalog here:

https://archive.org/details/Bonney1967ToolCatalog/mode/2up

I also want to think they preceded Thorsen, but who knows if things ran together.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is an earlier herbrand made example

 

[3baygarage]

That’s the 1/4 version I mentioned above. Commonly referred to as Herbrand, but also appearing as Bonney. During that time, Triangle era, everything was being rebranded.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Can’t see your photo here Lugz...[ ]...
I also want to think they preceded Thorsen, but who knows if things ran together.

Fixed the pic, thanks. And yeah, I'm just curious if they had multiple suppliers or moved from one to the other. Since the Bonney and Herbrand Dayton are from the KH/Triangle era (late 60's), not prior, we're going to need something else to distinguish sequence, if there was one, because Thorsen Dayton is, too, I think.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That style box with the stamped script may be a clue.

 

[3baygarage]

Fixed the pic, thanks. And yeah, I'm just curious if they had multiple suppliers or moved from one to the other. Since the Bonney and Herbrand Dayton are from the KH/Triangle era (late 60's), not prior, we're going to need something else to distinguish sequence, if there was one, because Thorsen Dayton is, too, I think.

I see. It was worth a shot. I really don’t know the timeline of Thorsen round heads.

OTG, the stamped box in that photo ironically, is a Giller. I saw the same photos from an old ebay listing while searching.

 

[DadsTools]

Here's a 3/8 set I picked up some time ago, paid $7.50 for it, which I thought was fair. I no longer have it. It was missing the ratchet, and I believe at least a longer extension bar and possibly a breaker bar. The set is as-found except for a couple of standard sockets missing, one which I replaced with a Dayton of different marking style I had on-hand. The other I replaced with a Thorsen, since the construction and broaching were so close to the Dayton. The slightly different chrome color on the 1/2 deep seems to jar some memory of replacing a cracked original with an identically marked socket I had, but I can't remember for certain.

I feel confident that with the 3/8 standards, the shift to 12-point for the three larger sizes is intentional and original (I've seen similar done in other sets)

I could find no mfr info on it (I had no knowledge of the Thorsen, Bonney or Herbrand connections being discussed here, and could find none), but based on the construction of the Thorsen socket, I concluded it was made by them. Based on what info I could find studying dates and labels on Dayton shop equipment on vintagemachinery, I concluded it was from the late 1950s, which would also be within the context of the find.

Perhaps the two odd sockets might help with comparison in some way, or perhaps the construction of the tool box and its label.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Sorry should have looked closer! Giller and thorsen are yet another brand entanglement unto themselves. The gray 1/4 box i have came with thorsen made stuff.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

dad's tools that is the bonney era set. Here is the bonney version.

 

[DadsTools]

dad's tools that is the bonney era set. Here is the bonney version.

Certainly looks like the same box configuration, but the similarity seems to end there.

I have a chest with many little drawers containing at least over a thousand sockets from all kinds of vintage manufacturers (not counting the Duro/Indestro and Craftsman in their own boxes). After searching though all those brands including Bonney, the Thorsen socket was the closest match, not only in the broaching, but the way in which the steel was ground/polished under the chrome and the geometry of the bottom drive end. For example, on these Bonney standard sockets, you can see that the 'shoulder' or 'ledge' of metal at the bottom of the broach (don't know the correct name for it offhand) is noticeably narrower than those in the Dayton set. This broaching 'ledge' appears consistent throughout the sockets of your Bonney set, and the wider ledge also consistent within the Dayton/Thorsen sockets, so the Bonney sockets themselves are not as good a match as the Thorsen socket. Wish I had taken photos of the drive end bottoms

I'm hesitant in such instances as here to establish the mfr or even dating of a tool set based primarily on the tool box. I believe it's established that not every tool maker had the capacity to make its own sheet metal boxes, instead buying them from contractors who made them for other tool companies as well. We know that machine screw, forging and pressed steel manufacture are all specialized processes, and not every tool company had all of these under one roof.

There could be a date crossover with the box. According to AA, the 'outline' logo on your ratchet is about 1960-66. Examples of the Dayton labels on machinery and Lugz' set bear zip codes indicating post-1963. My Dayton label has no zip, so it could be early 1960s. But I specifically recall that the study of the label markings and logos on the shop equipment indicated a late 1950s vintage. The box could have been made for a number of years, so we might not be able to pin down a year just by the box.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The tools in the box could certainly have been replaced. The same box was used for a time, and sockets from different suppliers are not out of the question.

 

[DadsTools]

The tools in the box could certainly have been replaced. The same box was used for a time, and sockets from different suppliers are not out of the question.

Agreed. In any event, I thought that posting photos of the set and reporting what findings I had might provide additional info to help in unraveling the Dayton puzzle.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The sockets in DadsTools' 3/8-drive set (post #26) don't look like Bonney. My Thorsen-made Dayton sockets don't have the two bands at the base, though, and neither do my Thorsen-made ACTION or Giller. Not saying they're not Thorsen. Just adding that data. Maybe a Thorsen guy (d42jeep) would have more to add.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here are some comparison pics. The bonney made stuff has dayton stamped in an arc. And the font and depth if the stamp is similar. The design of the extensions match.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The thorsen stuff has a lighter straighter stamp, extensions are different, no shoulder on end. As lugz noted, zip code indicates later production.

 

[DadsTools]

The sockets in DadsTools' 3/8-drive set (post #26) don't look like Bonney. My Thorsen-made Dayton sockets don't have the two bands at the base, though, and neither do my Thorsen-made ACTION or Giller. Not saying they're not Thorsen. Just adding that data. Maybe a Thorsen guy (d42jeep) would have more to add.

You'll notice in my shot of the standard sockets showing the name side that one of the two replacements (photo 5, 3rd socket in from left) has the Dayton name also, but no rings/bands. It's one I pulled from my socket bins. The name is also upside-down compared to the banded ones. I don't know where it falls date-wise compared to the banded sockets, but it's construction appears the same, so they all appear to be Thorsen-made due the previous-mentioned similarities to the Thorsen-marked socket (second in from left). The broaching for all of them seems virtually identical (photo 6).

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Here is my Dayton I am assuming it’s Thorsen made probably as I have several Thorsen with the same stamp just different names.


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[d42jeep]

The thorsen stuff has a lighter straighter stamp, extensions are different, no shoulder on end. As lugz noted, zip code indicates later production.

I agree with OTG in this case. In looking at DadsTools socket set, I would not have thought the sockets were manufactured by Thorsen. All of the later Thorsen, Action, Giller and Dayton sockets I’ve run across are clones of one another except for the name stamp.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The thorsen stuff has a lighter straighter stamp, extensions are different, no shoulder on end.

In looking at DadsTools socket set, I would not have thought the sockets were manufactured by Thorsen.

Agree with both of you. I have the same set as the one you just posted close-ups of, OTG, and also an ACTION and Giller, as I said, and the pieces in DadsTools' set don't look anything like any of it. But they don't look like Bonney to me, either. I guess I see what you are saying, Otg, about the similarities in the style of the names (although I never thought of Bonney as arcing so much as the B and Y just being larger than the ONNE, it's not as though they could reuse dies, and the idea of a supplier putting their own unique flair on their customer's brand name is a little odd), and the socket stops on the extensions, but is that enough when the sockets are so different (two thin rings vs. one band of heavy knurling)? Just playing DA, though. I guess I'm just as surprised for them to be Bonney as I am perplexed by them not really looking like Thorsen, either.

 

[3baygarage]

It’s simple. Dads’ tools match the B shield Sockets!

 

[3baygarage]

Courtesy of Worthpoint:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/bonney-8-ratchet-bonney-socket-set-1855548108