dead bolt back set

[billconner]

So I have 6 exterior doors installed. 2 came pre-bored for a lock set and dead bolt. We want just deadbolts on the other 4, but could not order them pre-bored for just dead bolts (for a reasonable price - like $300 per door). So I bought the kit with a plastic fixture jig/guide, hole saw, etc.

So I installed hardware on pre-bored doors, all fine. Started to bore other 4 but decided to check the jig on a pre-bored door. It's different. Jig seems exactly 2 3/8" as expected but pre-bored is 2 9/32" - 3/32" less.

Same deadbolts - is there that much tolerance in backseats? almost 1/8"? Should I shim jig to match pre-bored, use jig as is, or split the difference?

I suppose I should mock up a sample out of scrap and try each.

All new to me. Never bored a door for hardware before. Seems like they should match.

Added photo - I think 3/32" difference is noticeable.

 

[Zeke]

I've install hundreds of locks and I have the expensive kit. If you measure from the high side of the door bevel you should see the full 2 3/8". Low side will be as much less as you see, but not always.

Anyway, if you need to you can make the hole slightly oval towards what you need if the lock binds when cinched up. The trim will cover the hole.

Check that bevel. It throws a lot of folks off.

 

[billconner]

Thanks.

Very little bevel on door edge. Practically none. See photo. It's a fiberglass skin on, I presume, a wood (product) core.

I did take the dead bolt off the pre bored hole and set jig on it to see the difference. Definitely different backsets.

I was thinking about aiming for a mid point - like 2 21/64" - half way between the two.

 

[PCustoms]

Pretty sure my kit is Milwaukee and spot on.

I did do a door last month that was pre bored, looked factory but it was installed so I suppose it could have been done during installation. Hole was a little off, I had to push the deadbolt into position until I got it all locked down.

 

[Zeke]

Thanks.

Very little bevel on door edge. Practically none. See photo. It's a fiberglass skin on, I presume, a wood (product) core.

I did take the dead bolt off the pre bored hole and set jig on it to see the difference. Definitely different backsets.

I was thinking about aiming for a mid point - like 2 21/64" - half way between the two.

Some doors don't have bevels. If they don't, they have bodacious margins. With the foam filled leaf weatherstripping this is not an issue.

The bevel thing was taught to me by an old Swedish carpenter. He saw me marking out a hole and I was on the low side or the side opposite of the hinge projection. All I was doing was making a horizontal line from the center of the strike to be transferred to the other side via going across the door edge. He thought I was marking the backset and started yelling at me to always mark the backset from the hinge, or high side. I had to gingerly explain the Schlage boring fixture that uses two pins located in the center of the door edge which averaged the backset between the sides no matter what the bevel angle was.

He just went away muttering about newfangled tools. BTW, that jig was always off and located the edge bore below center by a good 1/8th. I knew to relocate it for the edge vs face bores, hence the line all the way around the door for punch marks.

I worked and reworked that thing for 20 years whenever it needed new bushings or other maintenance. I got it used and cheap and that was why. I never did get it right so just used it mostly for face bores and drilled my edge bore on my mark freehand. My guess is that someone hit a knot using a half inch drill motor with a lot of torque and bent the arm that held the face bore alignment bushing. Probably damn near broke his wrist.

Took me a long time when I was younger to figure out my edge bore was off. That is more critical than missing the face bore by a 1/8th. Let me tell you.

 

[Zeke]

No, you are not the only one to lay a vertical tank down. Most guys that have some experience know to do this. Lets the oil out and people are too lazy to drain the sump.

 

[billconner]

The lack of bevel does leave a large margin, probably 3/16" or at least 11/64". Also I detect the trim around the dead bolt is proud, probably as a result of the pre bored backset being under the 2 3/8".

 

[PCustoms]

No, you are not the only one to lay a vertical tank down. Most guys that have some experience know to do this. Lets the oil out and people are too lazy to drain the sump.

@Zeke Wrong thread?

 

[The Cobbler]

your pre drilled door is probably 2-3/4" backset
that & 2-3/8 are common, most locksets & passage sets these days are adjustable for either backset, however it does look odd if you have both at different backsets
is your jig adjustable in some way for the 22-3/4" backset?
I have a few old weiser drill jigs made of cast aluminum and they are . , never used the cheap ones so I don't know

 

[Zeke]

@Zeke Wrong thread?

Yeah, how did I do that? i was reading the small trailer thread. I can't move it.

 

[billconner]

your pre drilled door is probably 2-3/4" backset
that & 2-3/8 are common, most locksets & passage sets these days are adjustable for either backset, however it does look odd if you have both at different backsets
is your jig adjustable in some way for the 22-3/4" backset?
I have a few old weiser drill jigs made of cast aluminum and they are . , never used the cheap ones so I don't know

Definitely all was intended 2 3/8". I'm pretty sure the pre bored were just off because the plate was proud.

Got 2 of 4 done. Doing the recess for the plate around the deadbolt in door edge was the longest part. Wish there was a better tool.

 

[Zeke]

You mean like this?

 

[billconner]

Yes. Guessing it's thick enough to keep router base over door stop?

 

[Zeke]

Right. And the red things are for the door thickness using it on the door edge. One normally butts it against the stop on the jamb. Rabbeted or applied.

 

[nadogail]

I have a tin wonder fixture that came with a lock set purchased in the late’80s. It has has notches to match paper templates that come with new locks.

 

[Pate]

Residential locks are normally 2 3/8” and standard commercial is 2 3/4”. They also make 3 3/4, 5, 7, etc just not as common. Kwikset used to sell an 18” backseat so the knob was in the middle of a 36” door.

There are a lot of nice drill jigs sold but they aren’t cheap. You are going to pay $500+ for something you’ll rarely use. Pro-Lok, Major Mfg, Kwikset all make nice jigs.

 

[Norcal]

your pre drilled door is probably 2-3/4" backset
that & 2-3/8 are common, most locksets & passage sets these days are adjustable for either backset, however it does look odd if you have both at different backsets
is your jig adjustable in some way for the 22-3/4" backset?
I have a few old weiser drill jigs made of cast aluminum and they are . , never used the cheap ones so I don't know

2 3/8" is common in residential, 2 3/4" is more common in non residential, some latches are made to work with either backset measurement.

 

[billconner]

All done. Thank you all!

 

[The Cobbler]

2 3/8" is common in residential, 2 3/4" is more common in non residential, some latches are made to work with either backset measurement.

that used to be the case, but now residential is mostly 2-3/4. at least here anyway

 

[Norcal]

that used to be the case, but now residential is mostly 2-3/4. at least here anyway

But your in Canukistan.

 

[Zeke]

that used to be the case, but now residential is mostly 2-3/4. at least here anyway

Most stile and rail doors that you buy off the rack have 4 1/8th stiles. 2 3/4" backset is too deep for a lot of trim to fit all on the stile w/o overhanging a raised panel or glass panel, in the case of French doors. If you can locate the lockset in the lockrail postilion that's great. But most have the LS at 36" and the DB at 42" which is above of the common LR location.

I've had some trouble trying to install older historic locksets in newer doors. Never a problem with a beefy 5" stile door.