DeadBlows: Which Style For Brake Work?

[texasprd]

Some time back, I was helping my son start a brake job on his front-wheel-drive vehicle. Because the rotors had rust-frozen to the hubs, we had a difficult time removing the rotors to get them turned (took a lot of time with penetrating oil, tapping the rotor hat with a ball-peen, careful use of propane torch, rubber mallet on friction face). We did wire-wheel/wire-cup the hubs and inside of the hats, and used anti-sieze, but I may encounter this scene again on another vehicle.

I know many folks use deadblow hammers to break rotors loose in this scenario. Obviously, they must be non-marking in order not to damage the rotor. What I'd like know is - what type is best? Hard-tip (nylon or urethane) like the gray Halder, or soft-face like the Estwing?

Does the hard-tip style work better by "shocking" the rotor more with immediate impact? Or does the soft-face like the Estwing have enough punch to do the job?

 

[CJM8515]

if you are resorting to smash the rotors off with a hammer at that point they arent worth saving in most cases.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Nothing better than an Astro 78830 Hub and Rotor puller

 

[texasprd]

I didn't ask about alternative tools/methods. A deadblow hammer is considerably cheaper than the Astro puller, and can be used for other jobs. Can we keep on point, please?

And in this case, the rotors were very much worth saving. Again - can we stick to what I'm asking?

 

[Buickspec6231]

I like a hard faced dead blow hammer personally. But no matter what dead blow I've used, nothing seems to hit harder than a small (3lb or so sledge hammer) and a 2x4. I know that is an alternative tool/method, but it's even cheaper than a dead blow hammer.

 

[kursplat]

or put a block of wood between the hammer and the rotor prior to application of force

 

[plinker]

I use the soft face hammer on occasion for rotors, Trusty cook/Matco branded 88oz.
https://trustycook.com/product/sledge-hammer-model-7/
FWIW, they will not stay looking nice when used this way, but that is the nature of the job.

Most of the time a regular hammer is used (4lb) as we're replacing the rotors anyway.

 

[DFB]

IMO weight is often your best friend when striking something to loosen it. You can tap tap all day with a light hammer and get nowhere,

Commonly found deadblows usually range up to 4lbs in weight but as for the hard face mallets I don't know how heavy you can get them.

Like some of the others said the ol' sacrificial block of wood and heavy steel hammer can also do the job quite well

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Deadblow is not what you want, not enough concussive force, the squishy ends deflect too much. If you want to beat on it, a 4lb brass would probably be ideal; 4lb is my go-to rotor beater, 16 inch handle. Most rotors come off with a standard hammer and still get cut just fine. Unless you're really wailing on them, 4thou cleans the dents out. Most of the time the first 2thou clean-up pass is just to knock the rust and the lip off. 8thou per side clean up to final finish pass isn't uncommon, stuff with deep dish (should get scrapped anyways), can take more.



FWIW I would recommend replacing or just pad slapping. I rarely see a cost/benefit ratio in favor of cutting, YMMV.

 

[Mr Ratchet]

Of the two you posted, the Estwing or that style. I used to use a black 4 lb Stanley soft face until it fell apart/rotted after almost 30 years. Now I have a no name Orange 4lb soft face that I don't remember where I got it from. Both similar to this one https://www.zoro.com/tekton-dead-bl...czZWv3hDoHT5DsQwZgtVVNc0SCMkd7p8aAvpIEALw_wcB

 

[Flat-rate]

I have a Snap On soft blow. Works great for "tapping off" stuck wheels and rotors.

I do enjoy winding up like Tiger Woods and letting it rip on stuck alloy rims.

https://store.snapon.com/Soft-Grip-Dead-Blow-56-Ounce-Soft-Grip-Hammer-P886465.aspx

 

[MTNSleder]

I have a Snap On soft blow. Works great for "tapping off" stuck wheels and rotors.

I do enjoy winding up like Tiger Woods and letting it rip on stuck alloy rims.

https://store.snapon.com/Soft-Grip-Dead-Blow-56-Ounce-Soft-Grip-Hammer-P886465.aspx

Those are good hammers +1 for snap on dead blow

 

[sweet victory]

If you have an air compressor, I would rather use an air hammer.

Otherwise, I second a brass face dead blow.

 

[noid]

If you have an air compressor, I would rather use an air hammer.

Otherwise, I second a brass face dead blow.

Regular bit will mar the rotor, good thing brass/plastic/aluminum bits are available.

+1 on using an air hammer, makes stuck rotors a non-issue.

 

[sberry]

I hit them with a 4# steel hammer. If they are super stuck on the hub heat them and drums with a torch. Hot and fast between the studs.
Guilty of not even owning a dead blow. Hardwood blocks if cushion needed.

 

[plinker]

Regular bit will mar the rotor, good thing brass/plastic/aluminum bits are available.


+1 on using an air hammer, makes stuck rotors a non-issue.

Regarding using an air hammer,
If you carefully tap on the face of the hat around the studs and spray penetrating oil at the same time it works well. The oil will actually wick in through the stud and center holes from the vibration, BUT, if you're not careful the bearing can get damaged.

The brass bits work extremelywell in general and are a worthwhile to buy.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

Sometimes they can get so stuck youll break the rotor/drum before it comes loose. Deadblow is in theory a good idea, but anything really stuck will need a golf swing with a sledgehammer. Just wrap the head of your hammer with electrical tape to avoid making any big gouges if you plan to reuse them.

 

[Farmall450]

Of the two you posted, the Estwing or that style. I used to use a black 4 lb Stanley soft face until it fell apart/rotted after almost 30 years. Now I have a no name Orange 4lb soft face that I don't remember where I got it from. Both similar to this one https://www.zoro.com/tekton-dead-bl...czZWv3hDoHT5DsQwZgtVVNc0SCMkd7p8aAvpIEALw_wcB

Agreed.

 

[ovilla]

If I’m trying to save a rotor I’ll use a 4 pound orange HF deadblow. Otherwise its a 4 or 8 pound steel sledge with a piece of wood in between the hammer and the rotor. If that doesn’t work I’ll use the 3 jawed 10 ton hydraulic puller. I’ll also heat the rotor with my oxy/acetylene torch. As a last resort, I just press the rotor out from the back of the knuckle (see attached pics):

 

[Indexmill]

Don't over think it. 3 or 4# sledge with an oak block.

 

[PoorOwner]

Sometimes seems metal on metal works best. Replace the rotor if it is that badly corroded

 

[ItsNemo]

Meh, rotors are cheap and generally don't have to come off unless they're being replaced...a dead blow isn't going to do **** on a rusted rotor, so bust out the big hammer.

I didn't ask about alternative tools/methods. A deadblow hammer is considerably cheaper than the Astro puller, and can be used for other jobs. Can we keep on point, please?

And in this case, the rotors were very much worth saving. Again - can we stick to what I'm asking?

Also with attitude like this, I'm surprised anyone even wants to help you at all. The Astro puller was a VERY good suggestion.

 

[noid]

If I’m trying to save a rotor I’ll use a 4 pound orange HF deadblow. Otherwise its a 4 or 8 pound steel sledge with a piece of wood in between the hammer and the rotor. If that doesn’t work I’ll use the 3 jawed 10 ton hydraulic puller. I’ll also heat the rotor with my oxy/acetylene torch. As a last resort, I just press the rotor out from the back of the knuckle (see attached pics):

Well, that looks like fun!

 

[texasprd]

Meh, rotors are cheap and generally don't have to come off unless they're being replaced...a dead blow isn't going to do **** on a rusted rotor, so bust out the big hammer.



Also with attitude like this, I'm surprised anyone even wants to help you at all. The Astro puller was a VERY good suggestion.

I am very frustrated seeing threads with replies that don't address the original question. Commenting about rotor price and not needing to come off are an example. I have my values about replacing vs reusing rotors. The big hammer part, however, is reasonably relevant (thank you). If I don't have something to say that's on point to a thread, or my thoughts have already been expressed by enough before me, I stay quiet. I saw the thread devoted to the Astro puller when it first popped up on here. Yes, the Astro puller is a nice piece, but for several reasons, it wasn't what I was looking for. Therefore, it wasn't to the point of my thread (Old Wizard, thank you for the thought). I DO appreciate the replies that were on-point or at least close.

 

[texasprd]

Thanks to those who replied and addressed my question. I agree that weight is a good property in this case - I'll have to consider the tradeoff of size (for some of the bigger/heavier hammers) vs space for swinging (usually very limited). Those that mentioned the hardwood block - I have some plasting logging wedges that are very hard and might make a substitute (impact testing will follow - haha).

I like the air-hammer bits. Noid & SweetVictory, will a short-barrel air hammer use those effectively? I'm sure long is better, but will short do the job?

 

[FakeNewsRealHP]

4lb Nupla extreme power drive sure grip handle #SDSF-4SG. Matco and craftsman used to have them rebranded, obv the matco is 2.5x the amazon cost.

 

[ItsNemo]

I am very frustrated seeing threads with replies that don't address the original question. Commenting about rotor price and not needing to come off are an example. I have my values about replacing vs reusing rotors. The big hammer part, however, is reasonably relevant (thank you). If I don't have something to say that's on point to a thread, or my thoughts have already been expressed by enough before me, I stay quiet. I saw the thread devoted to the Astro puller when it first popped up on here. Yes, the Astro puller is a nice piece, but for several reasons, it wasn't what I was looking for. Therefore, it wasn't to the point of my thread (Old Wizard, thank you for the thought). I DO appreciate the replies that were on-point or at least close.

The entire point of a forum like this is to get different views. I appreciate people suggesting alternative methods and better approaches to problems because it's possible I didn't think of them and they would work better. Telling people to stay on point because they didn't tell you what hammer to buy is just rude.

 

[sberry]

Biggest danger to a rotor is cracking an internal web from hammering. A little ding in it doesn't mean squat to an old rotor you are hammering off,,, millions of rotors in the world with way more surface damage than that.

 

[Den69rs96]

I have the second type of dead blow and I use it quite a bit on lots of different task. However, it was completely useless trying to remove the rear rotors on my wife's Acadia. If you do not live in the snow belt, it would be fine to get the rotors loose if they are lightly rusted on. If they use the brine/salt combo, it won't do much. I tried a block of wood and 4lb mini sledge and no dice. Finally I dropped the wood and just pounded on it directly with the sledge. After numerous good whacks, the damaged rotor came off. I made sure that I lubed up the hub. Hopefully next time the rotor is easier to take off. The stuff they use on the roads now just makes removing them 10 times worse which is why I ended up buying the Astro puller.

 

[cthulu]

As a last resort, I just press the rotor out from the back of the knuckle

You must be in the saltbelt.

 

[visionguru]

Some time back, I was helping my son start a brake job on his front-wheel-drive vehicle. Because the rotors had rust-frozen to the hubs, we had a difficult time removing the rotors to get them turned (took a lot of time with penetrating oil, tapping the rotor hat with a ball-peen, careful use of propane torch, rubber mallet on friction face). We did wire-wheel/wire-cup the hubs and inside of the hats, and used anti-sieze, but I may encounter this scene again on another vehicle.

I know many folks use deadblow hammers to break rotors loose in this scenario. Obviously, they must be non-marking in order not to damage the rotor. What I'd like know is - what type is best? Hard-tip (nylon or urethane) like the gray Halder, or soft-face like the Estwing?

Does the hard-tip style work better by "shocking" the rotor more with immediate impact? Or does the soft-face like the Estwing have enough punch to do the job?

The hard-tip may be better because the shock may help brake the rust bond.

However, if the rotor is really stuck, no amount of hammering makes a difference. I've seen youtube videos in which a guy with a 8-lb hammer to beat the rotor out of shape (dents every where), the rotor stayed.

 

[bwringer]

I think the root of the issue is that there's a very narrow range of stuck-ness where a any sort of soft face hammer might have some useful effect.

So I guess you'd want the biggest, hardest soft hammer you can lay hands on.

 

[nafterclifen]

The entire point of a forum like this is to get different views. I appreciate people suggesting alternative methods and better approaches to problems because it's possible I didn't think of them and they would work better. Telling people to stay on point because they didn't tell you what hammer to buy is just rude.

Agreed.

 

[nicks78camaro]

Had an Express van in the shop for front pads and rotors, the rotors were so fused to the hubs we had no choice but to replace both hubs.

 

[texasprd]

The entire point of a forum like this is to get different views. I appreciate people suggesting alternative methods and better approaches to problems because it's possible I didn't think of them and they would work better. Telling people to stay on point because they didn't tell you what hammer to buy is just rude.

I did not ask about all the ways to remove a stuck rotor. There may be such a thread in this forum or the General Garage forum. If you want a thread about all the ways to remove a stuck rotor, by all means start your own thread for that. Oxy-acetylene torch and a shop press were mentioned in some posts - those would be great input for your thread. However, those don't address the question I posted, and they aren't feasible for me. I asked my question because I've seen references to using a deadblow for this, but none gave the specifics I wanted. I asked a specific question and those replies don't answer it. I'm a to-the-point person about things like this - if you consider that rude, then so be it.

Thank you to all who did reply with helpful responses - it's much appreciated.

 

[ItsNemo]

I did not ask about all the ways to remove a stuck rotor. There may be such a thread in this forum or the General Garage forum. If you want a thread about all the ways to remove a stuck rotor, by all means start your own thread for that. Oxy-acetylene torch and a shop press were mentioned in some posts - those would be great input for your thread. However, those don't address the question I posted, and they aren't feasible for me. I asked my question because I've seen references to using a deadblow for this, but none gave the specifics I wanted. I asked a specific question and those replies don't answer it. I'm a to-the-point person about things like this - if you consider that rude, then so be it.

Thank you to all who did reply with helpful responses - it's much appreciated.

Imagine there was a tool that cost $2.00 that removed brake rotors with zero effort or damage...would you not have wanted to know about that over a dead blow hammer?

Also, anyone who has done more than a few brake rotors before will know that a dead blow is next to useless for even mildly stuck rotors. So you're barking up the wrong tree here anyway. If a block of wood + reasonable sized steel hammer isn't removing it, no dead blow is going to solve your problem.

Your attitude towards people who were trying to be helpful is definitely rude.

 

[Cruzan80]

WRT soft deadblows, the HF 4lb is a great buy for the $. I have CM-branded Nupla in 1&2lb versions, which are nicer to use (mostly grip, head is slightly domed vs HF), but the sheer ability to beat the snot out of it, split the head (plastic only deals with so much force and weathering), and a 2min in-and-out warranty made it a no brainer for when I need brute force in a deadblow. The CM nuplas are harder to find anymore, and I wonder at the longevity of CM part replacements.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[texasprd]

So I guess you'd want the biggest, hardest soft hammer you can lay hands on.

The inherent contradiction in that statement really makes me chuckle - but that is a good way to put it!

 

[texasprd]

2ndGearRubber's mention of a brass hammer got me looking at brass hammers (thanks also for the info on the cutting passes). I saw some on Zoro by American Hammer. Zoro couldn't give me dimensions on the models I was interested in (3.5# & 4#), so I emailed American Hammer. The person I conversed with suggested their 4# lead hammer (aluminum handle) was the best for brake work - brass being hard enough to damage the rotor and lead having the weight/impact but not being so hard as to damage the rotor (and could be recast for much less than the initial cost).

Lead, of course, has a health risk - but nothing a good dust mask and good hand washing won't take care of in this application.

 

[Mr_B]

If I’m trying to save a rotor I’ll use a 4 pound orange HF deadblow. Otherwise its a 4 or 8 pound steel sledge with a piece of wood in between the hammer and the rotor. If that doesn’t work I’ll use the 3 jawed 10 ton hydraulic puller. I’ll also heat the rotor with my oxy/acetylene torch. As a last resort, I just press the rotor out from the back of the knuckle (see attached pics):

When they that bad I use gas torch and do 2 opposing cuts down to the spindle edge which helps release rust pressure and allows pretty easy remove normally.
Can do same thing with a disc cutter but slower and bit more messy .