deal at lowes..

[stupidjet]

When a good house is under $100,000 and you have a 3 minute commute in rush second,...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL good luck on that one....LOLOLOLOL

 

[REFLEXX]

I just bought a set from Lowe's. Thanks for the info.

NOW THAT'S FUNNY!

 

[JeepOnRock]

I, for one, am 100% in favor of the tariff on chinese goods. Yes, it would raise the cost of almost everything we buy, BUT it would be an incentive for many companies to begin making thier items here. I also think the Us government should impose fines on walmart for importing so many things from there. We need to get serious here. On top of the 27.5% tarrif, Introduce an additional tarriff that would offset the difference between the average US textile workers wage and the average chinese textile workers wage... And impost this tarriff on the companies importing these goods. This would accomplish three things; 1, it would send a little extra cash towards the Government(always welcome) 2, it would be a great incentive to bring manufacturing back into the US... If labor here vs there is the same, and the tarriffs are imposed, it might be cheaper to make the stuff here and 3, it would make chinese textiles MORE EXPENSIVE than US made goods.

*puts flack jacket on*


Jim

Zip up Jim. I can tell you are 16. I'm glad you're thinking, but you need to spend a little more time thinking about your positions. Also, read some more stuff. Try "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand as a good start.

Now, to your points.

Tariffs DO NOT provide and incentive for foreign companies to make stuff here. A tariff will provide incentives for companies here to raise prices and stop innovating. Time after time when tariffs are imparted on foreign goods, shortsighted US manufacturers stop modernizing and innovating and take a break. They give in to the unions and raise payrolls beyond justifiable levels, and destroy their own futures... again. The higher the tariff, the less helpful it will be to American industries. You will NEVER make foreign goods more expensive than US goods. The price of the US goods will always increase to stay above the foreign items.

Sending extra cash to the US government is like giving a junkie an extra hit of crack. It is never enough. Spending is out of control, and despite the fact that the government is getting more income than ever... they are increasing their spending even faster. BTW, Democrats and Republicans are equally bad about balancing the budget... they just want to blow the money in different ways.

If you want to see the US increase its production base and reverse the trade deficits, adopt a consumption tax to replace the current tax system. By removing taxes from businesses (which don't actually "pay" taxes, they just charge their customers and pass the money along), the US will bring in business... Daimler-Chrysler could be an AMERICAN company. Exports and domestic products will drop in price because the tax component is removed. Imports will not have nearly as much benefit. www.fairtax.org

Remember, that for every simple solution (including the FairTax), there are many facets that can, and will, trip you up. It takes a lot of tuning to address those little "details" that pop in and destroy the grand plan. The tariff route has been beated to death... and it doesn't deliver the result you are looking for. The "Buy American" route delivers the same flawed result as tariffs. It takes DECADES to get over the problems those ideas cause. The auto industry and steel industry are current examples of the results of protectionist behavior.

And why should I pay $40 for a Tshirt in order to have someone in SC make it instead of paying $6 for someone in Korea to make it. Is it that much better of a Tshirt? Should that job be protected... or should we try to get a BMW plant instead?

 

[mdshore348]

basically we have gotten "soft" . nobody here can tell me its easy to find someone ,even a kid to work labor for 10.or more an hr . i have to hire greencards. and they work way better than any US born , but lately they are getting soft, once they have lived in the US for a while. we all get paid too much for little work, the unions havnt helped, but it is also corporate america, trying to keep up with the american competition in the work force, they have to keep their employees by matching pay , its a domino effect. with that more income , comes more spending on housing , chinese goods ,so on . if most got paid 10k a yr, how many flat panel tvs from china would we sell ?china will become wealthy, then lazy , the cycle continues. many years ago , Romans were the world **********.. where are they now?
this cycle will go through china, but they have a workforce 100X what we had in the 50's. we will be a 2nd world country in 50 yrs or less. say goodbye to your million dollar house, sung woo just bought it.
just look around you , go to the mall , go to a job site, do we look hungry for work? all our fat as#'es are worried about is losing weight. go to the gym? idiot, just do some sweat labor,get a second job. how many gyms do you think there are in china lol... ok i know im ranting ...

 

[danski0224]

Organized labor is also to blame for some of this. I cant see why I should pay grossly inflated prices for goods (cars come immediately to mind) because some loser on the assembly line gets twice what his/her job is worth. Most larger goods you buy are moved by union trucks somewhere along the line, which means that new couch you just unwittingly overpaid for helped to pay the salary of a truckdriver who has so little backbone that he has to gang up with his fellow employess to ask for a raise. I hear you guys above when you say to (and I paraphrase) "do the American thing and buy American". That's all well and good, but the union people aren't doing the "American thing" by robbing all of us in one way or another. These unionists are looking out for #1, and the hell with everybody else. Well, I'm also looking out for #1, and if it means I have to go overseas to get the most bang for my buck, then that's the way it's going to be.

My opinions on this are strong, and after re-reading what I've written above it may sound like I've got a bone to pick with labor. Not so, just strong opinions. I own a business and have been at it for just about 30 years. At one time I had enough employees for the union to come in (although it never came close to happening) and if they wanted to unionize I would have let them. I would have then locked the door and quit.

Doug

And who the heck are you to qualify who is a "loser" or not? When I went through school, traditional "blue collar" (and mainly union) jobs were looked upon as "dirty work" aka "you can do better". The majority of the students in the vocational programs in my day were the troublemakers- forced there by higher ups in the educational process. High scools in my area do not even have traditional "shop" classes anymore due to declining enrollment.

Whether you care to admit it or not, every single worker benefit- whether you earn your paycheck with a union banner or not- has been brought to you by the unions. Do you think employers are so enlightened that they would pay OT on their own? Establish a 40 hour workweek? Paid vacations? Workplace safety? I highly doubt it.

All those benefits have a cost to them. That cost is absent in the retail price of goods produced in places like China. It is impossible to compete against that, no matter if you are union or not.

Maybe you will give up those benefits so you can lower the price of whatever it is that you make or provide. Sounds good to me, my dollars will go farther- at your expense.

Who determines when the going hourly rate is "too high"? Do you see any executives or CEO's taking a pay cut? Do you think they earn enough or too much? Why did the hourly union workers at United Airlines take pay, pension and benefit cuts and the executives did not?

What do you think will happen to wages in comparable union and non-union occupations if the unionized workers go away? I've got a dollar that says the non-union workers will get pay and benefit cuts the next day. The non-union automakers don't pay what they do to be nice, they pay it to keep the union out.

The number of people earning a union wage in America is small- around 13% if I remember correctly. Do you think those people are responsible for the problems today? How many honest politicians are out there? I bet they cost Americans a whole lot more that a few union members.

Unions aren't responsible for escalating health costs- the doctors and lawyers are. Spiraling health costs are everyones problem- not just Ford and GM.

My health benefits run about $6500 a year. Does anyone else see a problem with that? The union I belong to sure as hell doesn't want to pay that, and I understand that those benefits may get cut at some point unless the costs can be controlled. I say again, the union is not negotiating those costs, the doctors and lawyers are reponsible for the problem. Where is the public outcry there? It sure as heck ain't gonna get any cheaper when the Baby Boomers start draining an already strained system. The new Medicare drug entitlement program is going to break this country. Who can afford it?

Hospitals are making boatloads of money, yet the pay a nurse receives is still ****. Why is that? Is the employer paying what they need to, or are they paying as little as possible? There aren't too many unionized nurses, so explain the big bad union thing and the too much money thing to me again.

Why is the retail hourly labor rate almost the same between union and non-union mechanics? Plumbers? HVAC? Carpenters? Yeah, all that extra money is sent to the owners pocket- no savings are passed to the consumer.

It would be interesting to know if, as an employer, you were paying wages and benefits that were comparable or more than what the union paid/offered (before you got wind of a unionization attempt). I would guess not, which would make you the loser.

 

[OldCarGuy]

Wow!! I’m impressed...

Five pages of posts over a set of cheap pliers… Cheap imported products sure stirs the minds of so many. The bottom line is that they are destroying what built the US in the past 230 years. I can appreciate and applaud those that oppose purchasing items (particularly tools) made in China. Having been around the Tool and Die business for over 50 years, I understand the pride Americans have in their work and for goods made in the USA. Regrettably we are loosing the battle.. as the flood of cheap imports has swiftly taken its’ toll on manufacturing in American. I didn’t wear blinders and expected this onset many years ago, though I didn’t phantom the rapid pace it took.

Will history repeat itself? Look at oil. Colonel Edwin Drake in Titusville, Pennsylvania drilled the first oil well in 1859. Ford built a motor car for the great multitude, and the onslaught to find more and cheaper oil. With US technology, money, and Big oil company’s greed, we turned to foreign oil. Now the Middle East is robbing us blind with the price of gasoline hovering at $2.50 per gallon. Will the Chinese do the same once we don’t have a manufacturing base?

Where do we go from here? Only time will tell. Do we really what the government to intervene? Anytime the government gets involved it only worsens the matter. Indeed the citizens of the USA can make a difference. For only being Sixteen, Kartracer has more insight than must have at 3 times his age. The initiative and innovations from leaders like him will govern our future.

On a final note, I still feel a great personal reward in purchasing items made in the USA. This winter I purchased a P-Coat for $110.00 at a small store. I was astonished that it was made in the USA and was the determining factor why I made the purchase over a walmart special.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I guess I look at things somwhat differently. I prefer USA made tools and every other product that I use. With that out of the way, reality now must enter the picture, sometimes the only way I can afford the USA made product is to buy it used, I simply do not make enough money to always insist on USA made stuff even if it is available. How can I judge the guy that started this thread for buying a $13.00 plier set? Maybe his cash is as tight as mine and he needed some new tools and this is all he could afford? If I have a limited cash flow and all I can afford is this set, I would rather have this set to work with than nothing, sometimes that is how it is you can afford the import or nothing, so what gives anyone the holier than thou right to stand back and bust this guys chops over what was supposed to be a friendly tip? LEAVE THE GUY ALONE!

 

[danski0224]

I guess I look at things somwhat differently. I prefer USA made tools and every other product that I use. With that out of the way, reality now must enter the picture, sometimes the only way I can afford the USA made product is to buy it used, I simply do not make enough money to always insist on USA made stuff even if it is available. How can I judge the guy that started this thread for buying a $13.00 plier set? Maybe his cash is as tight as mine and he needed some new tools and this is all he could afford? If I have a limited cash flow and all I can afford is this set, I would rather have this set to work with than nothing, sometimes that is how it is you can afford the import or nothing, so what gives anyone the holier than thou right to stand back and bust this guys chops over what was supposed to be a friendly tip? LEAVE THE GUY ALONE!

I don't see any derogatory messages directed at the original poster. I know I haven't made any.

 

[Uncle Buck]

danski0224: Don't take it personal man, I was not pointing the finger at any one person. I did not even have an individual in mind when I posted. This whole thread started over disapproval of a $13.00 set of pliers a guy bought at Lowes, then migrated into this huge third world country rant.

 

[danski0224]

No offense taken.

Just goes to show that there may be more to it than "just a set of pliers".

 

[Uncle Buck]

If all you can afford is a $13.00 set it still is " just another set of pliers" that was my point, directed at no one in particular.

 

[LowNFToy]

i dont have time right now to read through the 5 pages of debating (all because i posted some $13 PLIERS!!!) lol.. all I can say is, the package says if I am unsatisfied in any way, to bring them back to the location of purchase for replacement no questions asked. Honestly, I have alot of Craftsman professional hand tools also.. and these pliers feel exactly the same.. They will be thrown around, used to hold hot metal after I weld.. like already stated, $13 guys.. come on 6 pages over an american made vs. china made argument.. makes me feel i'm not as welcome here if i happen to post a tool I own/use that isnt Snap-On.

 

[danski0224]

Well, I don't own much Snap-On. I do not earn a living turning wrenches, Craftsman works just fine for me 99% of the time, and I just can't afford to pay the premium that Snap-On commands. Nor can I afford many of the cars and garagemahals that are posted here- even if I bought everything I want/need from cheap Chinese sources and became "cash rich" as someone else explained . There are some that may be envious of my collection of stuff- everything is relative.

There are a billion people in the world that envy the simple water tap in my home.

My first hydraulic jack was a Chinese made Craftsman. I thought it was expensive at the time, and I still own it today, 20 years later. "Chinese made" never entered the decision making process. Today, I could swing an American made Lincoln (which I didn't know about back then), but I can't justify tossing a perfectly good product and purchasing another. If I bought one today, American made would enter the decision making process.

Those Kobalt pliers feel the same because they probably are- reverse engineered from someone elses product.

I use Vice Grip pliers in my welding projects. The spatter adds character.

 

[REFLEXX]

LowNFToy,

You're like the kid in a bad marriage, just an excuse for the husband and wife to argue. Don't take it personal!

From Lincoln welders to Harbor Freight wrenches, NOBODY here is 100% American made (it's just not possible or practical)

 

[logical]

i dont have time right now to read through the 5 pages of debating (all because i posted some $13 PLIERS!!!) lol.. all I can say is, the package says if I am unsatisfied in any way, to bring them back to the location of purchase for replacement no questions asked. .

Take them back and tell them you are unsatisfied with their country of origin....that should be fun.

I've seen this same thread on a half dozen boards, starts with an innocent post, drifts to trade policy and ends up on unions. I don't care for China and their policies in general but the idea that imports in general or a trade defecit of any kind are necessarily bad things for a good economy is basically untrue. There are many prospering economies that depend heavily, even exclusively on imports.