We have had a bunch of long time dealerships fold in the last month or so, there one week and gone the next type things. Local for me is SoCal, Orange county. All the mechanics I know personally found other jobs, but this has to be putting a ton of dealer items into the used market, factory manuals, lifts, that sort of thing. What are you all seeing in your area?
Dealers closing
- Thread starter Danglerb
- Start date
Frank Elson
Well-known member
Here in the UK we're seeing the same thing. Stuff on Ebay with "left the business" in the description.
Personally I feel bad about taking advantage, but if they need the money then are we actually helping them?
Personally I feel bad about taking advantage, but if they need the money then are we actually helping them?
There will be quite a few more in the next year or so. With GM/Ford scrambling to cut costs, etc. Some entire brands may go away.. Alot of dealers will probably simply close up shop. I've been to a couple of auctions here locally for stuff from dealers who closed up and the prices on the stuff that had been used hard and put away wet were nuts. Lifts that looked like they were on their last legs for $2000, 2500. The problem is when they have auctions at places like that people come out of the woodwork. Alot of them have cash to burn and think they are getting a deal because they are at an auction. You have to be a smart shopper/bidder. Although with an economic slowdown I bet the next few months prices won't be so high on this stuff. We've already seen some very nice toolboxes bringing waaaayyy less than even 6 months ago as people scramble to unload stuff they don't "need" to cover bills, etc, etc.
sberry
Banned
The lost jobs are the big issue for sure but I don't have much use for dealers anyway, hard to find sympathy for some of them when they made a lifetime effort to figure out the best way to screw their customers.
davestlouis
Well-known member
Judging from all the boxes and tools on Craugslist, dealerships and other shops around here must be laying guys off in droves. I also see a lot of concrete at dealerships, where new cars and trucks used to stand, there appears to be VERY little inventory at some of these stores.
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
my old dead pontiac dealer donated the kent moore tools and the manuals to lincoln tech , 15k tax slip
they tried to sell them to the new owners , but gm made the new owner buy all new stuff
they tried to sell them to the new owners , but gm made the new owner buy all new stuff
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
same here. i have heard of 4 dealers closing and the ford dealer i used to work at has trucks spaced 20ft apart just fill in the lot. there was 300+ new units when i worked there, now probably 40-50.
Ive been seeing alot of local auctions lately. Working in the Industy i see alot of places closing, they saw one in five dealerships will close, bottom line is you cant even get financing for a car, so how can they survive. I belive the poorly run dealerships will go frist.
mkdive
Well-known member
me either?
It would't be so bad if a few medium size dealerships around here closed. Then I could buy the property. Have a bigger shop and remodel the showroom into a larger apartment.
Right now I have an old brick 4 bay mechanics garage that I converted the second floor into a 1800 square foot apartment. It's ok but I'm kind of out growing the shop. Betweent the race car, El Camino, Camaro, Deuce, Mustang, Galaxie, GTO, 3 Corvettes, a dozen bikes, and various pieces or Euro trash it's getting a little cramped. Ideally I'd like another 4,000 square feet to put in a sheet metal shop and a machine shop. A space for a paint booth would be nice too. If I had 4 bays to keep my projects in, some parking for finished stuff, a shed for bikes, and shop space for sheetmetal and machining that would be my ideal. Also it's a bear parking my toterhome and 48 foot trailer on the property.
If a dealer closes and I could get more property at a decent price I'd be very happy.
Personal gain aside what's happening to the economy is downright scary!
Glad I'm in a good career field. People are never too broke to have *** and make babies!
Right now I have an old brick 4 bay mechanics garage that I converted the second floor into a 1800 square foot apartment. It's ok but I'm kind of out growing the shop. Betweent the race car, El Camino, Camaro, Deuce, Mustang, Galaxie, GTO, 3 Corvettes, a dozen bikes, and various pieces or Euro trash it's getting a little cramped. Ideally I'd like another 4,000 square feet to put in a sheet metal shop and a machine shop. A space for a paint booth would be nice too. If I had 4 bays to keep my projects in, some parking for finished stuff, a shed for bikes, and shop space for sheetmetal and machining that would be my ideal. Also it's a bear parking my toterhome and 48 foot trailer on the property.
If a dealer closes and I could get more property at a decent price I'd be very happy.
Personal gain aside what's happening to the economy is downright scary!
Glad I'm in a good career field. People are never too broke to have *** and make babies!
jbounds
Active member
thanks... Ive been out of a job for 3 weeks now as I worked for a dealer that went under...Ive never screwed anybody,but your explanation will probably make my kids Christmas that much better
Gregster
Well-known member
They have closed a few Ford dealers in my area and moved all of them into 1 central mega dealer. The lastest dealer to close is owned by the same owner which just spent $$$$$$$ renovating the place.
The Pontiac dealer is remodeling while the Toyota and Mazda dealers are moving into giant buildings. The service area at Mazda has around 75 bays.
The Pontiac dealer is remodeling while the Toyota and Mazda dealers are moving into giant buildings. The service area at Mazda has around 75 bays.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
8 weeks here, and i have NEVER been without work more than a week in the last 28 years.
Deafautotech
Well-known member
wow! that would be tough! but same time you may need a good break from working....
same with other tech who just laid off few weeks ago, he just enjoy his time and went to bar everyday to enjoy a drink while i did stop by to chat and ask for his advises about mercury or lincolin problems... that tech being working since he was 18 years old (he is now almost 52 years old)
We've lost at least 5 dealers and 2 that are very close. 3 of the major manufacturers are closed/closing in our area. If you lost your job I don't know where you would find one. The banks will not give loans for vehicles or homes.The small repair shops are dead and laying off. It's getting bad!
I'm just a hobbyist, so I'd like to know from you pros where you think the industry is heading.
Do you see "mega dealerships" coming that sell multiple makes in one lot that serve a larger area?
Do you think the family owned paces are being phased out in favor of corporations that own multiple dealerships and can share inventory?
What about the independant places? Shops and used car dealers.
What do you think the marketplace will look to a US car buyer 2 years from now? 5 years? 10 years?
Do you think the market for new and used cars will grow or shrink?
What about prices? Will there be more or less competition? How do you think that will affect pricing?
Will the job market for techs grow or shrink? The last is of particular interest to me. I'd like to hire a mechanic to work in my shop on some of my stuff. Sort of a helper since my time is eaten up more than I care to by my regular job.
Do you see "mega dealerships" coming that sell multiple makes in one lot that serve a larger area?
Do you think the family owned paces are being phased out in favor of corporations that own multiple dealerships and can share inventory?
What about the independant places? Shops and used car dealers.
What do you think the marketplace will look to a US car buyer 2 years from now? 5 years? 10 years?
Do you think the market for new and used cars will grow or shrink?
What about prices? Will there be more or less competition? How do you think that will affect pricing?
Will the job market for techs grow or shrink? The last is of particular interest to me. I'd like to hire a mechanic to work in my shop on some of my stuff. Sort of a helper since my time is eaten up more than I care to by my regular job.
Seriously, this is one of those posts where I have to debate what to write in my reply so I don't get banned. I luckily still work in a dealer, do I try to screw pull one over on customers? If their brakes pads are at 2mm and their rotors are under spec and their oil pan is leaking I'll make a repair quote where they can (and have) get a second opinion. Are they more expensive? Yes. However you're paying for a technician with factory training on a vehicle that has played with every system on a car and knows how it like the back of his hand. It's a different level of experience for specific manufactures. We get paid to notice what's wrong and how to fix it. It's your choice whether to buy it, and if a second option proves a dealer is lying then what? THEY are in deep trouble and it costs them a lot more then it's worth to pull a fast one on a customer. Some things aren't that important but if they're broken then they're broken. Some things an independent may not know about to check and would never pick up and sometimes that might cost you a lot more in the long run. I have prevented engines from blowing up by having a sharp eye for things specific to my manufacture, which in turn saves the customer a lot of money when all they came in for was an LOF and a 23 point. Bigger bill then they wanted, sure, but a heck of a lot cheaper then a motor.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
those questions are hard to answer. a lot depends on how well and how fast we fix the credit problems in this country.
i think we will see more mega stores as smaller dealers won't be able to keep the doors open. this will mean more techs out of work and looking for another trade.
i also see a lot of tech's going out on their own. the larger indepenents with established businesses will do ok. there has always been the saying that when new cars aren't selling mechanics are busier since people are fixing their old one's, but it isn't true......when business is slow, it's slow for everyone.
i think we will see more mega stores as smaller dealers won't be able to keep the doors open. this will mean more techs out of work and looking for another trade.
i also see a lot of tech's going out on their own. the larger indepenents with established businesses will do ok. there has always been the saying that when new cars aren't selling mechanics are busier since people are fixing their old one's, but it isn't true......when business is slow, it's slow for everyone.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
Deafautotech
Well-known member
Ahem! i did put a list on back of ticket to make recommend what it really need do and suggest to keep it run longer instead try to short the parts' life... some of customers brought it back and requested for me... even sometime customer said the part can be repair but i show the bad part from other vehicle has stamped letters that said replace - do not repair . it is chrysler transmission solenoid assembly. it is common to being leaking out... i did see some of solenoid assembly leaking out of metal sheet on side not gasket. but most of them are gasket leaking...
but problems is i work at dealership where owner's son work as service advisor and screwed a lot! my service manager tried to keep him away from touch anything but owner keep tell his son to work... he act like he dont care about it even almost all techs dont like him... i dont like him at all because sometime he has me to work on something for customer then i found out that i dont get flagged (i am hourly but prefer to see how much i made flagged) i told him why not i get flagged and he said 'you are hourly so you dont need it"... it pissed me off!! so i told to service manager about it because service manager found out that owner's son did not charge the customers the shop time... so dealership loose money. so service manager did all works and do all calls and else while that owner's son cant do work right way... i am happy that my service manager saw it and try to make control that problem before that owner's son run dealership to ground in service dept!!
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krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
if they paid a tech a decent wage and did away with flat **** things would be better for everyone.
Deafautotech
Well-known member
yeah but my tech friend(ford certified) can get 15 to 20 hours a day in easy way while he do a lot of brakes, electricals, HVAC, and else... which he would prefer to have flat rate so he can make good money. i tried to make good hours to turn in but business are slow so i am glad to be hourly for almost 3 years and still on hourly employee so i dont have to worry about low budget or cant afford the tools or else... But problem is owner are monitor my hourly times because got too much overtimes... oh well...
If more techs are out of work then I may have to run my ad and start interviewing again.
I tried to hire someone about a year and a half ago and it was a disaster. I work weird hours (I'm an on call certified nurse midwife) so I had to leave the mechanic alone in my shop for the day. First guy I hired was really knowledgeable. I had him building the engine for my 70 Chevelle drag car. Things went ok for a week. Then I had an all nighter, came home at 10am to find him sitting on my couch, in my apartment, drinking my Mountain Dew, watching my TV. Yeah, I let him go.
Second guy I hired about 3 months after that I had him working on my Porsche 356B. Only problem was the parts he took off the car he also took home and sold. Do you have any idea what NOS Porsche 356B parts cost? Or how hard they are to get? ****** nightmare man.
Hardest part is checking references. Of course they're going to put down people that will say nice things about them.
Anyway I have a ton of projects iwant to get done by spring, 60's and 70's American muscle cars and Euro sports cars from the same era. What do you think my chances are of finding someone reliable to work 30 hours a week, likely unsupervised, for around $25/hour? Slim to none?
I'm kind of hopng that if more techs are out of work I can find somebody competent who needs a job to get through the winter. Hate to sound like I'm taking advantage of the situation, but I really can't afford to pay a mechanic what he makes at the dealer.
I tried to hire someone about a year and a half ago and it was a disaster. I work weird hours (I'm an on call certified nurse midwife) so I had to leave the mechanic alone in my shop for the day. First guy I hired was really knowledgeable. I had him building the engine for my 70 Chevelle drag car. Things went ok for a week. Then I had an all nighter, came home at 10am to find him sitting on my couch, in my apartment, drinking my Mountain Dew, watching my TV. Yeah, I let him go.
Second guy I hired about 3 months after that I had him working on my Porsche 356B. Only problem was the parts he took off the car he also took home and sold. Do you have any idea what NOS Porsche 356B parts cost? Or how hard they are to get? ****** nightmare man.
Hardest part is checking references. Of course they're going to put down people that will say nice things about them.
Anyway I have a ton of projects iwant to get done by spring, 60's and 70's American muscle cars and Euro sports cars from the same era. What do you think my chances are of finding someone reliable to work 30 hours a week, likely unsupervised, for around $25/hour? Slim to none?
I'm kind of hopng that if more techs are out of work I can find somebody competent who needs a job to get through the winter. Hate to sound like I'm taking advantage of the situation, but I really can't afford to pay a mechanic what he makes at the dealer.
Gregster
Well-known member
I think thats exactly what it comes down to.. many places don't pay techs enough.. Considering the fact that we need to supply our own tools... I've been a tech now for going on 4 years and the pay is the number 1 complaint. I get paid rather decent for a tech of my experience, No complaints from me on that but I did have to go through 2 shops before I found my current job.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
yeah, we had tech's like that. got all the good work, while i did their comebacks and the 6.0l diesels. they made a big paycheck while i just got my time covered. thats why i'm not a dealer tech anymore.
i was doing an engine replace in an econoline one day. i watched the guy next to me get a poor fuel mileage problem, he did a major tuneup, flushed the injectors, flushed the radiator, flushed the transmission, etc. he made 6 hours labor. when it came back i set the timing and replaced the thermostat (which was why it was rich), and made .6 hrs. lets see......he made $120 to NOT know how to fix a truck and i got paid $12 to acually fix it
davestlouis
Well-known member
Our biggest FOMOCO dealer group locally had 7 stores last year, is down to 3 now, and his flagship store, which used to have 40 salesmen, is down to 8. This is a dealership that I have never heard a bad thing about, has been around for 35 years, and may go belly up. It's kind of sad really, I don't mind if the bad eggs go away, but when reputable family owned stores go away, that's a shame.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
dave sinclair?
davestlouis
Well-known member
Bingo! He's down to the Ford store in South County, the Buick/GMC store at Lindbergh and Hwy 21, and the L-M store in St Peters that used to be **** Jones. Dave is 82 years old, his health isn't the greatest, and they are on the ropes. At one point he had 7 stores, so each of his kids could have their own store, but they are shrinking fast. On the other side of the coin, Bommarito has built TWO new VW and Mazda stores this year, can't imagine where his funding is coming from on that deal.
jtrace
Well-known member
While not a dealership the local rental store I worked at for 16 yrs originally hd 5 locations and a repair shop ( where I was) its down to 2 locations and no shop. I was by myself worked 6 days a week 6:30-5:30pm. Worked on everything from an electric drill to the delivery trucks and did all there welding. Now 14 months later I'm still outta work (trying to start my own buissnes fixing and repairing race cars) I give the place I worked 2-3 more years Home depot rents stuff plus a local Bobcat dealer opened up and a Cat dealer got into rentals they used to be the only game in town Oh well
John
John
lets see......he made $120 to NOT know how to fix a truck and i got paid $12 to acually fix it
Elroy can tell from reading that bull **** that you're probably a damn good mechanic. That little thermostat story really hit home. Dingle berry even had the chance when he flushed the cooling system.
Hang in there Krust my man. Competent people get a reputation that follows them around. Elroy likes your style and he is sure good things are coming your way.
We were (guys in the shop) talking about Classic Chevrolet in I think Fullerton. Other places in the conversation had let a lot of people go, but I'm not sure which dealerships they were talking about.
This shop I hang around is a 30+ year independent Porsche, and the normal work is down, but a bunch of late model stuff like brake jobs that a dealer normally gets are showing up. A bit of the non head scratching crank it out work makes for easy money.
Reading all these posts I had no idea things are as bad as they apparently are.
People can put off "some" repairs, but other stuff you can almost calculate so many this or thats breaking per mile. A lot of people have an extra car so they can park the one with a problem for awhile. Sooner or later a lot of dealer work is going to have to be done someplace, and older cars break more than new ones.
Personally I haven't used a dealer for anything but warranty work since the 80's, and recently started doing as much myself as possible. Cost is a factor, but screwed up work, circus's like the 6 hrs of fiddling when it needed a thermostat, is the main reason.
I remember Porsche did some big survey of owners back in the 90's. The number one thing owners hated were dealerships, and dealing with them the number one reason for not buying a new Porsche. Porsche wanted to set some kind of limited direct distribution model so buyers weren't limited to what the dealers ordered and pushed. Owners loved the idea, dealers sued and killed it. Hard to say how things will end up. Easy to see its going to get worse.
Danglerb,
My 1967 Porsche 912 has a hard to shift transmission. Particularly the 2 to 3 upshift. Sometimes it just refuses to go into gear, especially if it's cold. When it's warm double clutching can sometimes make into into third. Also reverse gear can be a real bear to grab sometimes too. What do you think could be causing that? The car isn't modified in any way. Restored to original.
My 1967 Porsche 912 has a hard to shift transmission. Particularly the 2 to 3 upshift. Sometimes it just refuses to go into gear, especially if it's cold. When it's warm double clutching can sometimes make into into third. Also reverse gear can be a real bear to grab sometimes too. What do you think could be causing that? The car isn't modified in any way. Restored to original.
Frank Elson
Well-known member
The nearest independent Land Rover shop to me used to get a good living out of the very old models for repairs. Guys either embrassed to go into the posh dealerships, or who didn't trust them or had been treated badly.
He was telling me the other day that he's seeing a lot more almost new motors coming in for just regular servicing now.
Now that's the dealer pushing that business away. Either cost (although the owner of a new Range Rover can't be short of a few quid) or a bad experience.
But a dozen new customers in a week?
He was telling me the other day that he's seeing a lot more almost new motors coming in for just regular servicing now.
Now that's the dealer pushing that business away. Either cost (although the owner of a new Range Rover can't be short of a few quid) or a bad experience.
But a dozen new customers in a week?
Merkava_4
Banned
yeah, we had tech's like that. got all the good work, while i did their comebacks and the 6.0l diesels. they made a big paycheck while i just got my time covered. thats why i'm not a dealer tech anymore.
i was doing an engine replace in an econoline one day. i watched the guy next to me get a poor fuel mileage problem, he did a major tuneup, flushed the injectors, flushed the radiator, flushed the transmission, etc. he made 6 hours labor. when it came back i set the timing and replaced the thermostat (which was why it was rich), and made .6 hrs. lets see......he made $120 to NOT know how to fix a truck and i got paid $12 to acually fix it
It was a rule at the Toyota dealer I worked at that the techs had to fix their own comebacks.
eschoendorff
Well-known member
I thought all the mechanics in OC had tattoos and their own "fabrication" television shows...
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I don't think there will be much of a technician shortage with all of the closings. There have been several dealers from all domestic brands closed here recently, and the ones that remain open are slow with fewer techs. As for the empty lots, the interest rates for invenory fleets were raised recently so, it costs a dealer more to maintain their inventory of vehicles they can't sell. I'm not sure there's enough of a market left for the big three to sell the volume they need to sell to stay in business. We have really gotten ourselves into a fine mess this time.
Detroit Diesel Man
Well-known member
Weve had a few close around here..as well as a large Const equipment company..now due to the closing of the Const Co they laid off 60 Equipment mechanics indefinetly..as a result of this My local SO dealer has had to call it quits..that was his money stop...he has afew smaller ones but can no longer survive...this week will be his last as a SO Dealer...a great dealer..not pushy and one of the best I've dealt with...time will tell if we get another one.
DDM
DDM
I think costs is one part of that. The downside is the dealer has the flip side of this usually in the US. The new diag systems costs a lot and it's hard to get by with even an advanced SO scanner. They've really been focusing on driving some of the independents out with equipment costs.
Lyaec350
Well-known member
Here is an example of why dealers are closing:
We just bought a new truck last month (they're practically giving them away), it now has 1200 miles on it.
For the past couple hundred miles it has had a fairly significant pull to the right on the highway as well as a vibration at certain speeds (on all kinds of roads, including brand new blacktop that is smooth as anything).
I drop the truck off this morning and get a call from the service adviser saying:
"The tire pressure was 3 lbs low in 1 tire, the "technician" couldn't replicate the vibration or the pull so we aired the tire up and you should be good to go".
I then asked if they had put the truck on the rack to check the alignment or checked the tire balance (these were the things I figured were the most likely suspects).
He replies with: "Sorry we can't do that because it is not in our warranty flow chart. Since the "technician" couldn't duplicate the problem we can't go any further".
Now, it just snowed 4" this morning and I'm sure the roads are not even all cleared out by the dealer. I have a hard time believing the tech would even be able to adequately test drive the vehicle under these conditions, but because the tech says nothing is wrong they can't pursue the problem further.
Bottom line: I will drive home and it will be pulling to the right and vibrating. I hate dealerships. Even Sears could throw it on the rack and see if the alignment is in spec without having to follow some stupid flow chart. I'd be royally pissed if I actually had to pay an hour of labor for this visit.
We just bought a new truck last month (they're practically giving them away), it now has 1200 miles on it.
For the past couple hundred miles it has had a fairly significant pull to the right on the highway as well as a vibration at certain speeds (on all kinds of roads, including brand new blacktop that is smooth as anything).
I drop the truck off this morning and get a call from the service adviser saying:
"The tire pressure was 3 lbs low in 1 tire, the "technician" couldn't replicate the vibration or the pull so we aired the tire up and you should be good to go".
I then asked if they had put the truck on the rack to check the alignment or checked the tire balance (these were the things I figured were the most likely suspects).
He replies with: "Sorry we can't do that because it is not in our warranty flow chart. Since the "technician" couldn't duplicate the problem we can't go any further".
Now, it just snowed 4" this morning and I'm sure the roads are not even all cleared out by the dealer. I have a hard time believing the tech would even be able to adequately test drive the vehicle under these conditions, but because the tech says nothing is wrong they can't pursue the problem further.
Bottom line: I will drive home and it will be pulling to the right and vibrating. I hate dealerships. Even Sears could throw it on the rack and see if the alignment is in spec without having to follow some stupid flow chart. I'd be royally pissed if I actually had to pay an hour of labor for this visit.