Dealers closing

[krusty the clown]

Bottom line: I will drive home and it will be pulling to the right and vibrating. I hate dealerships. Even Sears could throw it on the rack and see if the alignment is in spec without having to follow some stupid flow chart. I'd be royally pissed if I actually had to pay an hour of labor for this visit.

here's the real problem, the manufacturers are holding the flame to the dealers for warranty expense. they have to have a sizable reserve to cover warranty expenses as required by federal law. IF they can reduce warranty cost, next year they can pull some of that money out and get big fat bonuses. not following the flow chart and properly documenting it will cause the mfr to kick back the claim. the problem you have is that the tech can't properly test drive it due to the snow, so he could do the alignment and maybe fix it ( just setting an alignment by the numbers doesn't always fix a pull) but most likely it will come back and he will have to do it for free. i know it ***** but it's because of the mfrs policies not the dealer or the tech.

 

[Danglerb]

Danglerb,

My 1967 Porsche 912 has a hard to shift transmission. Particularly the 2 to 3 upshift. Sometimes it just refuses to go into gear, especially if it's cold. When it's warm double clutching can sometimes make into into third. Also reverse gear can be a real bear to grab sometimes too. What do you think could be causing that? The car isn't modified in any way. Restored to original.

Most older Porsche's shift "slow" compared to a modern car even in perfect condition. With problems there are three areas to suspect;

Linkage from the shifter back to the ******, as well as the internal forks etc.

Clutch may not be fully disengaging.

Worn syncros and other internal speed matching devices.

The third gear part is odd, usually its 2nd that shows problems soonest, but maybe it was rebuilt in the past and only 2nd gear parts were replaced?

I'd have somebody knowledgeable look it over before it gets worse. Sometimes a minor part breaks in a ******, and causes a minor problem, right up until the second it gets jammed between two gears and breaks some teeth. I don't know on yours, but "used" gear pairs for mine are $500 each.

If nothing simple or external shows up, and your mechanic doesn't think a part is loose inside that could cause trouble, you might try changing the gear oil. I don't know what type yours uses, but some people have improved shifting with Mobil One, Royal Purple, or Redline.

Sometime in the next couple weeks I hope to start my first transmission rebuild. I've watched while somebody else has done three of them, one of those the master mechanic was showing another mechanic how to do it, so steps and practices were explained. Most of the work is straight forward, but evaluating the wear on parts is NOT easy and it gets expensive fast to replace everything.

 

[Danglerb]

Bottom line: I will drive home and it will be pulling to the right and vibrating. I hate dealerships. Even Sears could throw it on the rack and see if the alignment is in spec without having to follow some stupid flow chart. I'd be royally pissed if I actually had to pay an hour of labor for this visit.

No way would I drive it home. Take it out and see if you can replicate the problem, if so, drop it back off. Hold their feet to the fire.

If it still has a problem when you pick it up after that I would be back again, and asking for the number of the regional rep.

Does your state have a lemon law?

 

[rhandwor]

A lot of dealers have gone out in the Georgia area. I've noticed a lot of J Kent Moore tools on ebay. Some Miller and Rotunda tools also.

 

[krusty the clown]

Now, it just snowed 4" this morning and I'm sure the roads are not even all cleared out by the dealer. I have a hard time believing the tech would even be able to adequately test drive the vehicle under these conditions, but because the tech says nothing is wrong they can't pursue the problem further.

danglerb, did you read this portion?

there is no way i would preform a test drive in 4" of snow........there is no way you could tell if it had a pulling issue in these conditions.

i believe the service advisor did not communicate this to the customer properly. he should have said " the tech could not confirm this problem due to the road conditions, but wee did adjust your tire pressure. if it still has a pull when the roads are dry, stop by and i'll have the tech go for a ride with you and make you another appointment".

lemon law after one repair visit on a day with 4" of snow? thats a little unreasonable don't you think?

 

[Danglerb]

I've had long and annoyingly drawn out vibration issues with two different new cars. The lesson I learned is to keep the problem in the dealers lap because every day and every mile you drive makes it less likely for them to fix it while it eats tires etc. Dealer blames the factory tire, which they don't warranty, and tire shop blames the rest of the car. I let this slip past the one year mark and then the regional rep wouldn't do anything. Each time the dealer claimed to "fix" it I would eventually find out the bad wheel had been moved to the right rear where the problem was harder to notice, but still a problem at higher speeds (only during trips).

I've heard of this snow thing. Doesn't it usually get cleared up later in the day?

I mention the lemon law not to have it invoked on the first visit, but to make sure procedures are followed so on the third etc. visit you can use it.

OTOH in the Porsche shop people will come in complaining about vibration at 125 mph and want the tech to go check it out. You just can't do that, and if they aren't happy with balanced and checked on a lift they have to go elsewhere.

*** Sorry to draw this so far off topic

 

[rsanter]

sad part is back in 06 Ford closed/discontinued their contract with a number of the smaller dealerships in an affort to save costs.
it seems that it cost the company about the same to suport a small dealership as it does a large. they forced the small places out by pulling the franchise so they can make the larger ones stronger.

it seems that is that way things are going.
super stores, giant dealerships...etc
there is an economy of scale that the buisness benifits from and the corperation save money by dealing with a smaller network of larger dealers.

it will also with that way with the repair shops. the larger ones will survive by cutting back hours or people and the smaller ones will disappear because they cannot survive the cut. the only positive is that the old one man shops that are specialized can survive if the owher did not leverage dept and if he can tighten his belt a bit.
back when I had my shop and desert storm hit, people got scared and held their money. within a few months by buisness was cut by about 60% because so much of my buisness had gone in the direction of 'toys'. to survive I had to push the 'repair' portion of the buisness and I le t a couple of guys go that were going to get the axe sooner or later because they were bieng problems anyway. it was not a fun time in buisness, but I survived because I did not build the buisness on credit/dept. I did not buy equipment unless I could pay for it or pay it off within a few months. often I did without the new fancy stuff and lived with the decent used stuff. Several shops I knew that had all the cool stuff I wanted but had bought on credit all went out of buisness.


bob

 

[joenero]

Tire vibration issues! The sad part is there is some legitimate issues with tires. We get low profile tires in on soft compounds that have sat a while and they flat spot. Sometimes within 48 hours you can see it has started while watching the tire spin on a balancer. We set the tire pressure to max and then drive the car at around 65mph and you can actually feel the vibration start to fade after around 10 miles when the tire warms up and forces out the flat spots. The sad part is a 35, 40 or even 50 series tire on a 18-20 inch wheel will start to do this. I used to think flatspotting was something that happened when a car sat for a year or so but with today's compounds it's becoming more frequent where I work.

On the note of vibration issues, what do you do when a customer states "excess vibration at speeds of over 90 mph." lol

 

[rsanter]

On the note of vibration issues, what do you do when a customer states "excess vibration at speeds of over 90 mph." lol

if he has a Ferrari or Lambo
accomodate him, he is actually using the car as he should

if he has a chevy caviler
tell him that is to be expected

bob

 

[Elroy]

Danglerb,

My 1967 Porsche 912 has a hard to shift transmission. Particularly the 2 to 3 upshift. Sometimes it just refuses to go into gear, especially if it's cold. When it's warm double clutching can sometimes make into into third. Also reverse gear can be a real bear to grab sometimes too. What do you think could be causing that? The car isn't modified in any way. Restored to original.

Sorry Elroy's response is a little late but these "transmission" problems are classic "clutch problems". Your symptoms tell Elroy the clutch is not fully coming open or the pilot bearing is dragging.

Does reverse grind like coffee??

If yes, look at the clutch first

 

[RobertG]

Sorry Elroy's response is a little late but these "transmission" problems are classic "clutch problems". Your symptoms tell Elroy the clutch is not fully coming open or the pilot bearing is dragging.

Does reverse grind like coffee??

If yes, look at the clutch first

Most older Porsche's shift "slow" compared to a modern car even in perfect condition. With problems there are three areas to suspect;

Linkage from the shifter back to the ******, as well as the internal forks etc.

Clutch may not be fully disengaging.

Worn syncros and other internal speed matching devices.

The third gear part is odd, usually its 2nd that shows problems soonest, but maybe it was rebuilt in the past and only 2nd gear parts were replaced?

I'd have somebody knowledgeable look it over before it gets worse. Sometimes a minor part breaks in a ******, and causes a minor problem, right up until the second it gets jammed between two gears and breaks some teeth. I don't know on yours, but "used" gear pairs for mine are $500 each.

If nothing simple or external shows up, and your mechanic doesn't think a part is loose inside that could cause trouble, you might try changing the gear oil. I don't know what type yours uses, but some people have improved shifting with Mobil One, Royal Purple, or Redline.

Sometime in the next couple weeks I hope to start my first transmission rebuild. I've watched while somebody else has done three of them, one of those the master mechanic was showing another mechanic how to do it, so steps and practices were explained. Most of the work is straight forward, but evaluating the wear on parts is NOT easy and it gets expensive fast to replace everything.

One of my winter projects is to fix this issue, whatever it is. It is a fantastic car to drive.

I use Mobil1 in the ****** and engine. It's good oil.

The other gears work fine, but I am hopeful that a simple clutch adjusment will get er done. There's no grinding or anything. Just a real reluctance to go into third or reverse.

Either way soon as I get my 59 El Camino to some stage of completion I plan on working on the Porsche. Probably start by lubricating everything, adjusting everything to spec, and giving it a good once over. If it persists I guess I can pull the ****** and see whats what.

Never actually took apart a Porsche transmission. I would imagine it's a bit more complex than a Muncie or a T56. A little luck and I wont have to find out.

 

[sberry]

Didn't say all dealers were bad or screwed customers but it isn't hard to find stories about places that did. Car salesman tend to have a reputation for a reason?

 

[jbounds]

Didn't say all dealers were bad or screwed customers but it isn't hard to find stories about places that did. Car salesman tend to have a reputation for a reason?

dealers employ more than just salesmen...they are out of a job too..

 

[Danglerb]

I'm surprised this hasn't been more in the media, but maybe the election noise drown out everything else. Such a weird situation with a large part of auto industry out of work, nobody making loans, and spending for the black Friday weekend was up from last year.

Wouldn't clutch be all gears? I'm guessing linkage, or bent fork type thing.

Its not a good or bad oil thing, its a friction characteristics matching what the gearbox needs thing, and different brands and mixes work best with different trannys. How much wear the ****** has seems to make a difference in which brand works best as well.

 

[Lyaec350]

i believe the service advisor did not communicate this to the customer properly. he should have said " the tech could not confirm this problem due to the road conditions, but wee did adjust your tire pressure. if it still has a pull when the roads are dry, stop by and i'll have the tech go for a ride with you and make you another appointment".

Krusty, I would love to take my cars to you. It is not that I find it unreasonable they couldn't replicate the problem in 4" of snow (obviously), I just don't like how they try to hide behind a flow chart. I'm fine with a bit of vibe in a truck, I just want reassurance that some measurement is not way out of whack that will cause it to eat tires down the road. If they had called with your response I'd be completely satisfied.