Dealing with GC's insurance

[vlocci]

Some of you may recall the debacle that my underground garage build became. (builder built the walls too short)

I'm now after insurance advice on the off chance anyone here is in the business.

Short version is my General Contractor did a poor job on the garage that they built for me. It is a flat roof structure generally made of concrete (walls, roof, etc). It leaks after ever rain resulting in damage to some expensive precision CNC equipment and my pristine 911 GT3 that lived under the roof. (water leaking through the concrete roof deposited an egg shell thick layer of calcium over everything under it including my car) Contractor has not completed the job and frankly seems to be going bankrupt. I have zero confidence in him fixing this, but for now and simply looking to claim against his general liability policy for damages to equipment and the car. Figure 20K in damages across everything.

I, along with a bunch of his other existing clients, are likely suing him on the construction side. Attorney General may be going after him for fraud as well, but that is beside the fact for this conversation.

I contacted his insurance co, filed a claim and just had an adjuster out today. Very nice woman who I 100% assume is looking for ways not to pay my claim. The words "3rd party claim" came up once or twice as I assume they will look to subrogate against the roofer. I don't know if the roof is the fault or water is getting in through the masonry walls. I expect someone will get blamed for poor workmanship and a potential out and seek to avoid saying the wrong things and finding myself out of luck.

I've avoided my homeowners policy as I rather not have a claim against me. Tell me if this is the wrong approach.

Regardless, I'm looking for the magic words to keep the pressure on and get myself paid. I don't need to be chasing subcontractors and have no way of identifying who is at fault among them. Feels like my GS's insurance company can do that in the background.

I would like to simply keep the heat on my general contractor, get his policy to make a settlement offer, and move on.

Given the mess this build is any money in hand is better than none, as I'm pretty confident my GC is going bankrupt and will close up shop any day.

Anyone in the commercial insurance business willing to offer some advice on how to handle this. Happy to give a quick call if easier and equally happy to figure some way to compensate you for your time.

Vin

 

[The Cobbler]

I have read the original thread, and this update ***** even more now. sorry for what's transpired. I hope the ins. comes good for you, It seems like your only chance , unless GC has tons of assets. but that will probably be a long process.

 

[vlocci]

Thanks for the kind words. Just looking to get what we can from his insurance for damages to equipment/car and move on.

Chasing this dirtbag for anything more than that is a waste of good money and effort.

What kills me is he continues to use photos of my house to promote his "craftmanship" to his 35K Instagram followers. Uugh...

Ask me before hiring anyone in the metrowest area of Boston!

Vin

 

[nmk_61802]

The general wisdom is to claim on your insurance. They will then sort out the at fault parties and aggressively per-sue them for reimbursement

 

[mike93lx]

...

 

[PCustoms]

What kills me is he continues to use photos of my house to promote his "craftmanship" to his 35K Instagram followers. Uugh...

Did you sign a release for that?

 

[vlocci]

Nope, but Instagram won't do a thing and given the ethics to date in not surprised my (former) builder ignores requests.

I just hope no one else gets burned as on social media he likes like a rockstar.

 

[shoot summ]

I would say the magic words are "hire an attorney", seems that is the way to get action with Insurance companies these days.

Also have the Attorney take action against the GC for unauthorized use of your home in his advertising.

 

[The Cobbler]

....

I just hope no one else gets burned as on social media he likes like a rockstar.

I've watched some videos from a concrete guy on you tube, he thinks his company is so good, I see lots of flaws . it's remarkable how many people cheer for this guy about how good he is. things like leaving the wire mesh on the stone base goes unnoticed. sad really

 

[619DioFan]

Since I am not Dr, Strange the only magic words I know are " Lawyer up " get the most pitbull attorney you can find, until then you will just get the run around from his insurance and everyone else who does not have your best interests at heart.

 

[rancherbill]

I'm not an insurance guy.

What I do know is that you have to put a claim in with your insurance company for the TOTAL amount. It should include damages repairs, loss of use, emotional stress, your hours managing the mess etc. THEY will go after the GC, the roofer, the concrete guy the carpenters etc. to assess some liability to them all.

Your GC sounds like he will be going out of business soon. Before he skips and leaves everybody holding the bag get your insurance company involved, They have experience seizing what assets are still available. You want to be first if possible.


Most importantly they will go after the other insurance company. The other insurance company will try to not pay out anything. Your company is on the hook.

 

[wssix99]

I would say the magic words are "hire an attorney", seems that is the way to get action with Insurance companies these days.

Also have the Attorney take action against the GC for unauthorized use of your home in his advertising.

+1 I think this is the only way. The insurance companies are fronted by lawyers. The only way to get through is to hire your own (and claim your lawyer's fees also) or have your insurance company go after them. (Your insurance company is fronted by lawyers also.)

You'll pay for it now or pay for it later. Fees for your own lawyer, or whatever insurance premium/caveat is added to your homeowners policy.


If you'd like ideas on the car and repairing the roof, let us know. This happens where I live all the time. (Snow melt seeps through parking garage floors and does a number on whatever is below. We need to do a number of things to keep that happening in the northern cities.)

 

[Adaylate]

If it wasn't for bad luck..........
Hope things get better soon.

 

[Hawke]

I spent most of my working life in the insurance industry, including working for aggrieved insureds, but not in your juristriction.

I would claim on the damage to the car and equipment on their car or contents policies. That is why you pay premiums. I suspect that the issues of leaks will not be covered by your household policy, however, I could stand corrected.

I would be unlikely that your contractors liability policy will provide cover for poor quality building. It’s unusual for a liability policy to provide cover for bad workmanship. I suspect that your only opportunity is to sue him for a breach of contract or tort but if he is like many small contractors, he may have few assets.

However, it may be arguable that he failed in some professional design area, so there may be some claim on his Professional Indemnity policy - if he has one.

If you want relief regarding rectifying the poor workmanship, you need to determine his assets, and then sue for damages if you can. Find a good lawyer who is good on contract and or tort law. I suspect that you are in for a battle, and your chances of 100% success are limited. Be prepared to get nothing.

 

[reader2580]

I would check to see if your state has a fund to pay for contractor problems. Minnesota has a fund that licensed contractors pay into to be used for problems with work done by a licensed contractor. I know someone who got reimbursed for work to redo some masonry done by a poor contractor.

 

[JWILLIE1977]

I've watched some videos from a concrete guy on you tube, he thinks his company is so good, I see lots of flaws . it's remarkable how many people cheer for this guy about how good he is. thinks like leaving the wire mesh on the stone base goes unnoticed. sad really

The YT guy wouldnt happen to be Victory Outdoor Services, or Odell Complete Concrete, would it?

 

[denis4x4]

Every time we've done a major remodel or construction, we have required that the contractor put us on his policy as "additional insured" and provide proof that he has done this. We also have pre-printed lien releases for the subs.

 

[duneslider]

Just curious but where is the architect in all this? Part of the job of the architect is to make sure the building is built per their design. If it was built according to their design and it is leaking then they hold some blame for the issue. If it wasn't built according to their design then whoever is at fault for not following the plans is liable.

I also don't think insurance will help out here, I think a lawyer is what you need but ultimately, you probably aren't getting much from anyone. Builder will shut his doors and reopen with a new name, his assets are all protected behind a corporation.

It sounds like a super awesome project you had going there, so sorry it didn't turn out very well for you. I can't even imagine the frustration you must be feeling. Good luck.

 

[mike93lx]

I would check to see if your state has a fund to pay for contractor problems. Minnesota has a fund that licensed contractors pay into to be used for problems with work done by a licensed contractor. I know someone who got reimbursed for work to redo some masonry done by a poor contractor.

Based on the scale of this project, I would say those funds are aimed at helping other people

 

[reader2580]

Based on the scale of this project, I would say those funds are aimed at helping other people

Doesn't hurt to ask. Something would be better than nothing. The case I am familiar with in Minnesota was around $10,000.

 

[mike93lx]

Doesn't hurt to ask. Something would be better than nothing. The case I am familiar with in Minnesota was around $10,000.

My point is that I think those funds are to protect people that cannot afford the hit of bad work. That said if there aren't exclusions, everyone is eligible to apply

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Home Improvement Contractor Arbitration and Guaranty Fund

The Office of Consumer Affairs and Business Regulation registers home improvement contractors and administers the Arbitration and Guaranty Fund programs.

www.mass.gov

 

[Hank11]

Hire a lawyer.

Lawyers do more than just sue people and a good one may be able to negotiate a good settlement for you. For that limited work it may not cost as much as you think.

 

[The Cobbler]

The YT guy wouldnt happen to be Victory Outdoor Services, or Odell Complete Concrete, would it?

no, Its not. I prefer not to name it

 

[jonshonda]

If you suspect that he is going under, you better the the first in line to get what you can, because if you wait until his subs are done with him, he might not have a pot to piss in.

If you have the money for a GT3, then you should have money to hire a lawyer! The longer you wait, the less change you will get your money back.

 

[yeldogt]

So sorry to see this has only become more of a problem.

If your car is insured -- you should file a claim on your policy. How is the house insured? In some situations a homeowners policy stays -- I always buy a builders risk policy with some riders --- but they only go so far. You would get the damage -- not the poor work fixed.

 

[jimindm]

I am not a lawyer, but I have a very good friend that is a contractor. Through his kids sports programs, one of the other kids has a dad that is a lawyer for such damages.

My friend Is sort of an expert witness for the lawyer. He is sort of tasked with just explaining to the lawyer why damages are happening, and the building practices that went into the project. Never even knows who the parties are.

One of his first cases was a project that was a few stories tall, that was having sort of a foundation settlement issue. There were issues with a few floors as far as cracked walls and such. Damage went all through the corner of the building, clear down to the foundation.

In the end he told me is was a development owned, operated, and built by a company that was from the south. Being in the north where we have ice, snow and temp swings the way we do, it was just the design of how the roof drained. Creating huge ice dams coming from a valley in the roof. then essentially over loading the roof.

As this worked its way through the legal system, he actually took a picture the following winter, of one of the largest icicles I have ever seen. It was coming off the roof in a corner of where the problem was. It was several stories tall, attached down the side of this building.

I only have his side of the story, but in the end as it worked through the legal system, it became the blame game all the way. The OP talked about third party. That is what he saw. Each insurance company, as their insured was named just kept getting more people involved.

In the end, everyone had a little piece of fault. Some had a little some had a lot. It worked its way down through essentially every contractor that worked on the project.

He said it was sort of eye opening for him. How he could do everything right, and in the end have liability of a project that went wrong.

We have talked about this several times, and really what it comes down to is the pay out of insurance companies. Its not how much they pay, it is about how much they save in the end. Lawyers are sort of incentivized, by bonuses paid, to save money. Many times insurance companies just settle outside of court, when they can justify the pay out may be less than what they may have to pay if it goes all the way to court.

He called me a year or so ago. Asked if I knew any auto techs that were missing a finger. I could not think of anyone I knew. Seems as if his lawyer friend was working a case of loss of earning potential. A vehicle repair shop owners son, that would be taking over the operation one day, lost a finger in a school woodworking shop. He didn't know exactly who his friend was representing, but the school, teacher, saw manufacturer and a list of others were involved.

In the end he was here a month or so ago, when his buddy called him. The family had turned down offers of several hundred thousands to go to court. In court they were awarded a few thousand. My buddy hung up and sort of laughed about it. His lawyer buddy likely made more in bonuses of what he saved the insurance company, than the family did, in the end.

I see nothing good about any of this for the OP. I could see how this could be ******* for a long time as it will work through the legal system. The GC's insurance goes after all of the subs and even the designers. While the OP may not even have use of said garage, while insurance companies argue over fault. ***** for the op.

 

[Jackfre]

You are a “can do” guy trying to get it done, but I agree that you have skipped a few steps that would make your life a bit easier. Call your insurance company and your attorney. If your agent is worth his salt he will work for you. In a lot of ways your efforts may hinder the best result.

 

[niget2002]

Bang his wife.

At least then there's a bit of pleasure from being screwed.

I've read the other thread and now this one. It's heartbreaking the crud you're going through.

I wish I had better advice to give, but I'll continue following waiting for a hopeful happy ending to all of this.

 

[vlocci]

All,

Thanks for the advice and for having a sympathetic ear through all of this.

I'm fortunate to have a killer attorney involved, but at 600/hour I try to use him sparingly as there simply isn't that much to recover from my deadbeat contractor.

In the end I'll be fine. I'm quite confident of that can focus on the endgame rather than get caught in the frustration of they moment.

Mr pitbull attorney spent 30 minutes firing off a nastygram to my (former) GC's insurance company and between it and the information gathered here I am getting the attention needed to resolve this.

I've learned a good bit about general liability insurance in all this. Also learned the only GC I trust is me.

Vin

 

[3onthetree]

I don't think I'd want the GT3 anywhere near an insurance claim. If the VIN is listed for any claim, you can kiss your value goodbye. Pay for a cut and detail.

Also, it sounds like the building wasn't finished, but you had a CNC + the GT3 in there. Hopefully you had a Substantial Competion C.O., if not that would be an avenue the insurance company uses to get out of it.

 

[rustyjames]

I was thinking the same, knowing the contractor isn't on top of his game I would have at the very least had everything under a tarp or some type of cover until there was certainty that the building was water tight.

 

[Ipassgas]

I understand if you never want to revisit this, or the other thread, but as an emotionally invested bystander, how are things going on the project resolution?

 

[vlocci]

I'm sorry for never closing this out. It has been something of a battle with the GC, but ultimately things turned out OK.

Very short version is the GC has departed (he refused to do any more work and abandoned us).

I managed to bring in multiple highly qualified trades to slowly resolves his screwups. I attempted to bring in an entirely new GC, but frankly everyone is busy and no-one wanted to inherit the mess of someone else.

In the end I took on the coordination function of trades and was fortunate to have some real professional subs come onto the job who both communicated well and owned their work. The difference in performance was extraordinary compared to my original GC.

GC's insurance paid a portion of the damages incurred after leaning in pretty hard on potential litigation. This was far from making me whole, but it was a start.

Given the GC stopped doing work I effectively stopped paying his bills. He has been unable to provide any accounting on funds, so I withheld enough to slowly start making subs whole (in exchange for lien releases) and resolving issues.

As to my garage, it remains a foot too short. I've worked closely with the lift manufacturer and we have a solution identified. Not the original plan, but workable for my needs.

As to the GC, I've made it something of a mission to ensure he does not do this to the next guy.

Given I'm paying lawyer bills anyway, I've pulled in a couple of his other disgruntled recent clients (it was amazing how willing people are to talk when they learn they are not the only ones with problems) and have initiated some serious claims of both unworkmanlike performance as well as outright fraud. Our local attorney general is in the mix as well. 100% confidence the GC is out of business. 95% confidence he never gets a construction license again. 50% confidence he goes to jail. I obviously cant's share all the details, but as we peeled the onion back we learned more and more about less than ethical business practices.

 

[dcg9381]

Sorry to hear this. I think you're going about it the right way. Builder's risk - I also don't think will cover workmanship / engineering, but may cover things like leaks.

You've got it nailed down - you're going to need to 'sus out what $600/hr of an attorney is worth against your chance of recovery. In my state, many GCs are experts at hiding assets. Everything leased, equipment actually owned by another company (or family member), primary vehicle protected. In a similar case that I know about, a forensic accountant was brought in AFTER a huge judgement was issued, and you could watch what remained of company assets being distributed into to protected class assets of family members or his personal residence. Basically, the GC I knew about made it to expensive to chase what limited money you'd get back. It's different if your GC has assets or is still doing business.

 

[casmurbax]

sorry that this happened, but I am sure I am not the only who appreciates the update.

 

[03ranger]

Was your contractor Licensed and bonded? Does your state (Massachusetts) have a state contractor’s licensing board? If so file a written complaint with the state contractor licensing board. The state board will investigate / inspect the property. If the job fails to meet minimum specifications required, the contractor gets a chance to correct the issue. If the contractor fails to correct the issue, his bond may pay for another contractor to do the repair and his contractor licensed may be forfeited.

 

[rancherbill]

Get your insurance company involved they know the ins and outs.

 

[ldl]

Get a good Lawyer, if you involve your insurance co. your premiums will go up for their trouble.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

03 … rancher … idl … go back and read from the b3ginning. He has been through all of those avenues.