Debating Power options for shop.

[imjustdave]

Hello Everyone.
Sorry for the wall of text.

At the planning stage for a shop Been talking to the local power company and I have 2 options.

#1
Upgrade the home service to 400/320 amp split service allowing me to have 200 servers at both the house and shop obviously sharing the service.
Current home uses gas for heat/hot water.
Electric stove, dryer.
I do plan on adding a heat pump for AC in the home.
Distance from the home power meter to the new shop location is 150-200 feet for the wire length. I figure I'll have 2-3K just in parts to setup my home, and run to the panel in the shop. Might hire an electrician to do the meter base unsure yet, utility would disconnect at the transformer so zero shock issues.

#2
Have a new 200 amp service run from the transformer which is 5 feet from my property line and it would be maybe 80-100 feet depending on where I locate the shop, and panel in the shop. figure 800-1000 max, for power to the panel.

Shop will have a lift, compressor, welder, other power tools. I plan on 2 EV cars as well adding to the power consumption.
If things go how I would like I will have in floor heating, and I suspect AC. I might run gas to the shop but debatable if its worth it especially if I end up with solar, put gas money towards some panels.


So If I do option #1 I would have to pull the meter, replace the meter base, and have a 200 amp disconnect at the home for the shop and reconnect the home maybe about 24hrs of downtime. Then run either under the driveway $$$ or around basically 1/2 of the home as the meter is literally furthest away from new shop and the run would be through the side and back yard.

If I do option #2 The house and shop are separate, There is a flat rate fee for install and wire from the utility is provided up to my meter on the shop, Monthly rates on the shop would be a little cheaper as its not considered a resident but I would have another meter to pay for EVERY month, so I would consider it a wash at best.

I suspect option 2 would be cheaper today, but over the life with the meter fee eating into that every month, I know they can combine the 2 for billing but I suspect I still have to pay a base meter rate.

So there are 2 things I haven't yet figured out yet, that I suspect complicate options. I would like to add solar on the shop and I wouldn't mind having a generator located near the shop but have the ability to energize the house. I suspect the only way to do the generator would be a separate dedicated line just for the genset back to the meter in order to be able to separate the line from the gen power. Not that power goes out often but I already own the genset the complicated part would be how to splice it in, not sure it can be done after meter with the ability to energize both home and shop.

In any case I think I need to decide #1 or #2. Solar and generator I don't think will drastically change much.

Would love some feedback, ideas, Questions ETC im game.

 

[850xpeps]

I think you answered your own question. Installing solar and a generator would be the reason I would go with the 400 amp service. Have it set up so you can disconnect the main service from house and shop but still be able to back feed from either. That way if shop don’t use all power solar produces, the house can.

 

[Kaizen]

Hmmm I have a 200 amp main and a 125 sub panel. Pulled 2/0 aluminum myself 100ft was around 300 bucks.
No way I wanted second service to get standard monthly charges. 125 runs a 7.5 hp compressor etc no problem


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[lazyriverrat]

Don't know if it would work, but I would move the meter back to the transformer if possible. Then you could serve both buildings under one meter. You already have the wire to the house and would still just need a shorter run to the shed. Dont know your codes, but a 400A service is most likely overkill. Just guessing, maybe you have a huge demand. Whatever you wanna do is fine, just my 2 cents.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

I would opt for the 400/320 amp service. One meter fee per month instead of 2.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[imjustdave]

Don't know if it would work, but I would move the meter back to the transformer if possible. Then you could serve both buildings under one meter. You already have the wire to the house and would still just need a shorter run to the shed. Dont know your codes, but a 400A service is most likely overkill. Just guessing, maybe you have a huge demand. Whatever you wanna do is fine, just my 2 cents.

That's actually a good idea.

 

[imjustdave]

Hmmm I have a 200 amp main and a 125 sub panel. Pulled 2/0 aluminum myself 100ft was around 300 bucks.
No way I wanted second service to get standard monthly charges. 125 runs a 7.5 hp compressor etc no problem


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Yeah thinking the second meter would ****, I need to verify again that there is a charge i'm 95% sure there is. The more I think about it I think the split service is the way to go, unless the second meter isn't charged on 1 property.

 

[Kaizen]

Yeah thinking the second meter would ****, I need to verify again that there is a charge i'm 95% sure there is. The more I think about it I think the split service is the way to go, unless the second meter isn't charged on 1 property.

My potential monthly charge was going to be like 45 bucks a month before I used any juice. Ridiculous


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[78SC4X4]

Holy s@#t batman. My basic meter charge is $7.49 a month.

imjustdave. Double check your cost. If you have PSE you must pay for and own any maintenance costs for all equipment after the meter.

 

[sberry]

One of the guys here splained about using feed thru lugs but I like to get this all under a 200 if I could. Main off kills it from the meter. I have 400, 2 200 on it and cant backfeed the whole place as some utilities are off each panel. It really should be under a 400A disconnect for emergency power.

 

[ard]

Also keep in mind that you can wire the shop AS IF it was a 200A service (ie sub size, conduit size, wire size) but put that on a 90A breaker off the home’s 200A service. See how it goes.

If you need to upsize, then all the work is only at the home.

I think you will find it is VERY hard to draw 200A with one guy in a shop. Your home doesn’t sound electric intensive either (yet).

You will likely get many telling you “you need to do a load calc”. You should. Pen to paper, and primarily looking at large concurrent loads. Today, tomorrow, then in 10 years.

Finally your $$ numbers on the service install seem low, but it is highly dependent on location and level of DIY. But you get an electrician out to quote on a “400A service cause I’m building a shop” and their “rich guy detectors” can trigger.

 

[850xpeps]

Also keep in mind that you can wire the shop AS IF it was a 200A service (ie sub size, conduit size, wire size) but put that on a 90A breaker off the home’s 200A service. See how it goes.

If you need to upsize, then all the work is only at the home.

I think you will find it is VERY hard to draw 200A with one guy in a shop. Your home doesn’t sound electric intensive either (yet).

You will likely get many telling you “you need to do a load calc”. You should. Pen to paper, and primarily looking at large concurrent loads. Today, tomorrow, then in 10 years.

Finally your $$ numbers on the service install seem low, but it is highly dependent on location and level of DIY. But you get an electrician out to quote on a “400A service cause I’m building a shop” and their “rich guy detectors” can trigger.

If he heats his shop he will most likely be getting close to 200 amp service cap on paper. Depending on heater size.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

Also keep in mind that you can wire the shop AS IF it was a 200A service (ie sub size, conduit size, wire size) but put that on a 90A breaker off the home’s 200A service. See how it goes.

If you need to upsize, then all the work is only at the home.

I think you will find it is VERY hard to draw 200A with one guy in a shop. Your home doesn’t sound electric intensive either (yet).

You will likely get many telling you “you need to do a load calc”. You should. Pen to paper, and primarily looking at large concurrent loads. Today, tomorrow, then in 10 years.

Finally your $$ numbers on the service install seem low, but it is highly dependent on location and level of DIY. But you get an electrician out to quote on a “400A service cause I’m building a shop” and their “rich guy detectors” can trigger.

Just the 2 EV chargers can max out a 90 amp panel.... let alone any other loads.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[MileHighRover]

If he heats his shop he will most likely be getting close to 200 amp service cap on paper. Depending on heater size.

You aren't kidding.

I have a 1,000 sq ft shop with 10 ft ceilings, fully insulated. I have four garage doors. To run a properly sized electric heater would take well over half of the power a 200 amp service could provide. I wish I could have 200 amp service at my place.

 

[850xpeps]

You aren't kidding.

I have a 1,000 sq ft shop with 10 ft ceilings, fully insulated. I have four garage doors. To run a properly sized electric heater would take well over half of the power a 200 amp service could provide. I wish I could have 200 amp service at my place.

Yes but keep in mind how load calcs are figured.

Although 100 amp draw for a 1000 sq ft shop seems like a lot. My 1800 sq for house with full basement 10’ walls and 9’ main floor has 18kw furnace. Which only requires 75 amps.

 

[imjustdave]

Also keep in mind that you can wire the shop AS IF it was a 200A service (ie sub size, conduit size, wire size) but put that on a 90A breaker off the home’s 200A service. See how it goes.

If you need to upsize, then all the work is only at the home.

I think you will find it is VERY hard to draw 200A with one guy in a shop. Your home doesn’t sound electric intensive either (yet).

You will likely get many telling you “you need to do a load calc”. You should. Pen to paper, and primarily looking at large concurrent loads. Today, tomorrow, then in 10 years.

Finally your $$ numbers on the service install seem low, but it is highly dependent on location and level of DIY. But you get an electrician out to quote on a “400A service cause I’m building a shop” and their “rich guy detectors” can trigger.

Yeah I admit 200amp is a lot but if I do option 2, seems pointless to go less than, as I recall its $795 for PSE to hook it up meter on the wall of the shop with the trench dug by me. Than meter fee per month and usage, this I need to check on again.

Your idea of hooking at the home as if I did the split service is something I will consider but I suspect the shop heat, AC both house and shop, hot tub and EV will send me over on paper calcs and possibly in real life as well.

The numbers I speculated above are parts only, and only for getting power to the shop, not my needs in the shop. I'm sure an electrician would be north of 5K.

Need to make a call tomorrow and talk again to them and fine tune some #'s

 

[floridafarmer]

One more thing to consider - I just went thru this with my barn this year. I went with a new 200 amp service there - which does include a meter charge (I think it's under 10 bucks a month).
Anyway, where I am, the power company has a KHW and Fuel surcharge for the first 1,000 KWH per month and then a higher KHW and Fuel surcharge for everything above 1,000. It is a big difference and more than makes up for the meter charge. So I get the lower rate on the first 1,000 KWH on both accounts.
Check your bill - maybe yours is similar....

 

[Bert_]

One more thing to consider - I just went thru this with my barn this year. I went with a new 200 amp service there - which does include a meter charge (I think it's under 10 bucks a month).
Anyway, where I am, the power company has a KHW and Fuel surcharge for the first 1,000 KWH per month and then a higher KHW and Fuel surcharge for everything above 1,000. It is a big difference and more than makes up for the meter charge. So I get the lower rate on the first 1,000 KWH on both accounts.
Check your bill - maybe yours is similar....

Wow, that's *** backwards. Around here if there is multiple rates it gets cheaper the more you use.

 

[Buckgnarly]

One more thing to consider - I just went thru this with my barn this year. I went with a new 200 amp service there - which does include a meter charge (I think it's under 10 bucks a month).
Anyway, where I am, the power company has a KHW and Fuel surcharge for the first 1,000 KWH per month and then a higher KHW and Fuel surcharge for everything above 1,000. It is a big difference and more than makes up for the meter charge. So I get the lower rate on the first 1,000 KWH on both accounts.
Check your bill - maybe yours is similar....

Exactly how it is here and why I went with a separate service It more than pays the 12 a month the meter costs