Deciding between wildly different estimates

[bdbull]

I've gotten 4 estimates that are wildly different, and I'm trying to figure out how I can choose the best one. I feel comfortable with all 4 of the contractors, so I'm at a loss on how I can decide.

The estimates came in at 73k, 60k, 57k, and 44k. I've been pretty specific with what I want and it's a simple build so there's not a lot of room for variation. I'm struggling to figure out how the estimates are so far apart.

I'm very cost minded, which is making it extremely difficult to pick one. Had the estimates been a lot closer, it would be easier. But it's really hard to ignore a possible savings of almost 15k.

What are some things I can do/ask to help me make a decision here? Looking for some suggestions from those who have been in this situation before.

EDIT:
Garage is pretty simple: 30x38, 3 garage doors, single man door, 3 dormers, 10' ceilings, hardiplank siding, minimum electric, no interior finishing

https://imgur.com/ejfc5xe

 

[Jon_E]

It would help greatly to know what the estimates are for, and what kind of specifications or plans you handed to each bidder.

 

[ddurrett896]

The estimates came in at 73k, 60k, 57k, and 44k.

What vehicle did each person arrive in? If the $73k guy showed up in a 18' loaded F350 and the $44k showed up in a 09' Tacoma, theres a quick indicator as to where the additional expense might be going.

 

[ZipSnafu]

Just make sure and very clear to the contractors your comparing apples to apples. That is a big difference IMO.

 

[bdbull]

What vehicle did each person arrive in? If the $73k guy showed up in a 18' loaded F350 and the $44k showed up in a 09' Tacoma, theres a quick indicator as to where the additional expense might be is going.

That's a great point. The 73k was in a nice suburban that I know for a fact he bought brand new because we talked about it.

 

[Chris4x4Gill2]

I had a similar range is quotes on a project. In my case the prices ran from $60K to $120K. Now the 120K was an outlier because their materials and method of construction was vastly different from all of the other quotes, but even between similar materials and methods, their was a 20K price range. After looking examples of the work done by all of them, I went with the low bid option. I got a quality product at least on par with the higher bids and in some areas superior. The difference in the price was time. The low bid was a small shop with 1 or two helpers max. He was not able to promise me a quick turn around while the higher bids were promising 2 month completion. Our build took 6 months from contract signing to delivery, I have no idea if the others would or could have met their promised time lines. He doesn't have a receptionist or outside sales other than himself and his wife so contact and responses were always delayed. But in the end, we got a product I was very happy with at a very good price.

 

[Radix2]

Don't get sidetracked by stupid stuff like what kind of car they drive.. or you might go all in and see if you had some of your nice stuff out that some guys saw and others didn't....

It doesn't matter.

Focus on what you are getting and what you are paying.

Go through point by point. Siding, soffits, concrete, framing, timing. Who is doing the work- in house, subcontracting. Check references if possible or look at previous jobs. Don't assume anything on materials, name brands, etc.

 

[ConCretin]

Edit; I just noticed the sketch in your post. I am hoping you gave the bidders a lot more than that to base their price on. If that was all they got, the price differences could easily be attributable to scope and quality differences. You'll need to drill down into their proposals to identify the differences.

If you provided reasonably detailed plans and specifications, the difference in bids could be the result of differing overhead structures, how busy each of the bidders are and a number of other reasons. Sit down with the low bidder and thoroughly review the scope of work, schedule and payment terms.

You might find he made a mistake and bails. If he seems to understand the job and is reputable i.e. his references check out, I'd draft up a detailed contract and let him get to work.

 

[b-boy]

Look at material costs. That should be the similar across the group.

Next look at examples of each contractor's work. Hopefully that will make things clearer.

The best mix of cost to quality should win.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

The cost is in the details and you are probably "over simplifying". (BTW: there is almost 30k difference in those bids.)
What type of doors, windows, roofing, foundation, slab, site prep? Easily a large difference.
Where are they getting the materials, and how much do they mark-up?
Does it include getting electricity to the building? Driveway?
How close are they to your site? Travel can add cost.

How much of the work will they sub out? (A contrator that does his own work will be more accurate at estimating, someone that subs it out will either bid high (knowing he can find someone to do the work for that price), or end up asking for more money when the actual cost is higher than expected?

Schedule. My guess for $150k it could be up next week. If you don't mind waiting they can use the job as fill in between other jobs and get to it when they can.

 

[rusty1]

...suggest looking at some previous work from each of them, then decide...

 

[dumper]

which one would you pick if they all came in about the same price?

 

[rburke65]

Looks like a $29K difference to me. Devil is in the details. Licensed, insured, look at previous jobs, ....quality of materials. A detailed contract. If you're not experienced in the field if construction I suggest you do a lot of reading n asking questions. Ask WHY..... What are the options, etc.

 

[polizei1]

What vehicle did each person arrive in? If the $73k guy showed up in a 18' loaded F350 and the $44k showed up in a 09' Tacoma, theres a quick indicator as to where the additional expense might be going.

Yes but that could also mean that the $73k contractor is extremely competent in his work and he's ran a successful business. The $44k contractor could be a Joe-blow who's track record is spotty at best and who cuts corners.



Look at the materials chosen. Hardie is very expensive, and so are garage doors unless you go basic. That could easily be $20k just in those materials. If you don't already have these specced out, the different contractors could be bidding different materials.

 

[bczygan]

I've gotten 4 estimates that are wildly different, and I'm trying to figure out how I can choose the best one. I feel comfortable with all 4 of the contractors, so I'm at a loss on how I can decide.

The estimates came in at 73k, 60k, 57k, and 44k. I've been pretty specific with what I want and it's a simple build so there's not a lot of room for variation. I'm struggling to figure out how the estimates are so far apart.

I'm very cost minded, which is making it extremely difficult to pick one. Had the estimates been a lot closer, it would be easier. But it's really hard to ignore a possible savings of almost 15k.

What are some things I can do/ask to help me make a decision here? Looking for some suggestions from those who have been in this situation before.

EDIT:
Garage is pretty simple: 30x38, 3 garage doors, single man door, 3 dormers, 10' ceilings, hardiplank siding, minimum electric, no interior finishing

https://imgur.com/ejfc5xe

If you throw out the highest and lowest bids (Not estimates) and the rest still vary greatly, then the scope of the work as defined in the drawings, specs and selections is not defined well enough. Bids need to be itemized with quantities so you can adjust them to compare apples to apples.

Bill (Retired Estimator and purchasing agent)

 

[Northislander]

A wise man once told me to average the estimates you receive the closest to the average is probably the closest to the true cost of completing the job. The highest estimates are usually busy or didn't like you? the lowest are incompetent, scammers or missed something the guys in the middle probably want the job and might do it well. But i wouldn't listen to that wise man cause i don't. I have the advantage of being a tradesman so i know the trades i want to do my jobs. so i ask them to do them. There choice if they have certain ways of billing a job for example by the square foot, by the fixture, time and material etc. in the end i pay the bill if i feel i got ripped off i never use or recommend them again. In most cases i have been very happy with every trade i've gone with.

 

[6768rogues]

Did you ask if anyone on the job will be fluent in English? Labor cost is a big part of the job.

 

[ford fanatic]

I understand completely, we had three estimates for our addition...42K, 78K and 108K.

 

[RVDan]

I'm consistently the low bidder in my line of work and it's only because we charge a 33% markup on parts and the actual labour time, not double of everything like the others. We still lose 75% of the jobs because people are spooked by the lowest price.

I don't build garages but I'm suggesting you do your research. Low bidder isn't always bad workmanship.

My boss took the middle bid to do his roof. I did the math and it worked out that he got charged $100 an hour for every $15 an hour laborer that was on site. What a rip off.

 

[finn]

Throw out the high bid, then ask to talk to previous customers for references.

Looking at examples of previous work helps, too.

If there are no red flags, go with the low bidder. Isn’t that why you asked for quotes in the first place?

 

[SALIV8]

What I did for my build, and it was time consuming, was come up with a scope.

Once I had the scope that lists every single thing I want, I sent it to the builders. This way you will compare exact prices.

It takes a long time to come up with a thorough scope, so take your time.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

I note you say "estimates", not "fixed price bids". What does the rest of the contract say?
Unless your plans spell EVERYTHING out, how are you sure you are comparing apples to apples? Do the "estimates" include details beyond what is shown in your plans?
Can you you hire a contractor who bills with hourly rates plus materials? Then you pay for the labor and materials. I've found this can result in a happy contractor and a happy owner, as the contractor doesn't have to rush anything to get it done at a profit, and the owner never overpays for a job that takes less time than expected. Also, change orders are no problem, as you just pay for the work. The negative to this is that if things take much longer than estimated, you pay far more than estimated.

 

[jetnow1]

1140 square ft. the low bid seems like it is way low to cover the materials and labor. The
two mid range seem fairly on target, I would look at their work on other jobs, talk to their clients from past jobs to get a feel for how happy they were with them. If you eliminate the dormers you could save some money. Minimal electric is not saving you much, if there is any chance you would want to expand on it later do it all at once, the majority of the cost is getting power to the garage. Be sure your specs include garage door sizes, brand/model is even better. Do the same with doors and windows, slab thickness etc.

 

[mike93lx]

considering how little info we have, my opinion is to drop the lowest...he's unqualified and will have overruns or shoddy work. the highest didn't want the work and priced it accordingly

choose from the middle two.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

As someone who has to get quotes from a minimum of three vendors for any job over $6000.00 and has to get public bids for anything over $39k, you need to write VERY detailed RFPs to get comparable quotes. If you give vague descriptions and sketches of what you want, you'll never get apples to apples quotes. No disrespect intended, but your sketch is what's giving you these wild variations. You need to break down your engineering specs, construction details and material requirements.

Tommy

 

[ford33]

Ignore the advice about what type of vehicle they drive. That makes no difference in quality of work or accuracy of bid.

You need to provide more information to the bidders. Provide garage and site plans, material list or product names and time schedule expectations. This takes more time from you to prepare but you will know exactly what you are getting.

Read some posts here from others complaining about contractors. Sometimes it is about lack of information and planning that is the root cause not the contractors fault.
Recently a post complained about a concrete contractor laying a garage pad 12 inches below the alley way grade. Plans did not specify a height for the pad. It was going to be difficult to drive the family car into the garage with that much of a drop off. Who was a fault for that miss? Don't say the contractor since the job had no site plans for the pad and the cost to increase the height of the garage pad was not included in the bid.

Do your work and then ask for bids again. Check their work before you sign a contract and then make sure they have insurance with you listed as additional insured.

Post some pictures of your build in progress. Good luck.

 

[bdbull]

Well, I think I figured out why the low bidder came in so low. After some back and forth, I don't think he has a license nor is he insured. I asked to see these things and at first got a "ok, i'll send them over." After a day or so and me asking again, he said he was waiting to get all the licenses and insurance from the subs he uses.

Then I got a call from him telling me that he just recently was getting some phone calls from unhappy customers of jobs that he never did. After some research with his attorney, they figured out the calls were for a defunct company of the same name. His attorney advised him to close his company so he did that. He then said he joined up with a friend who owns a roofing company that he does a lot of work with anyway. So now he would be doing the work under that company. He sent me the business license and liability insurance of the roofing company. Turns out that a roofing company does not need a contractor license in Georgia.

I got all of this Friday afternoon so I haven't had a chance to speak with him since, but this all sounds like a big fish story to me. I actually called one of his references who I already talked with that spoke very highly of him and he said he never asked about his license or insurance. I've also looked him up on the Georgia professional licensing website and I can't find him or his company. I can, however, find the other 3 that gave me estimates. Big fish story or what?

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Unless you are just doing a roof, it would seem he would need a regular contractor's license to be legal.
But... Fish or no fish, if you want a properly licensed contractor, it would seem it is not worth dealing with this guys mysteries.

 

[Git]

What I did for my build, and it was time consuming, was come up with a scope.

Once I had the scope that lists every single thing I want, I sent it to the builders. This way you will compare exact prices.

It takes a long time to come up with a thorough scope, so take your time.

^^^^This

It's a learning process. Each contractor probably educated you a little bit and by now you should have a pretty good idea of what you want. (I am sure each bid had some things you liked and some things you perhaps didn't like.)

Now that you are up to speed - list the specs that are important to you and send it to all 4 contractors and ask for a 'final' bid on your specs. Apples to Apples. Get as detailed as you want or care, after all - it is your money

 

[billspit]

I'm surprised you could get four estimates.

 

[Trey T]

Your scope of work should be generalized in this fashion:

1. design, plan, and permit
2. earthwork/foundation
3. structures:
3a. concrete slab (material/labor/equipment)
3b. framing (material/labor/equipment)
3c. exterior (material/labor/equipment)
3d. roofing (material/labor/equipment)
4. utilities:
4a. plumbing (material/labor/equipment)
4b. electrical (material/labor/equipment)
5. interior:
5a. insulation (material/labor/equipment)
5b. wall cover (material/labor/equipment)
6. misc: everything else here

don't be too specific though or else you won't get any bids. i.e. if you request for e-verified for anyone working on your property, specifically in TX, you will not get any bids.

 

[Toomanytools?]

What vehicle did each person arrive in? If the $73k guy showed up in a 18' loaded F350 and the $44k showed up in a 09' Tacoma, theres a quick indicator as to where the additional expense might be going.

I use to think that too if the guy showed up in a $60,000 truck must be charging too much. Reality could be is he is in debt up to his eyeballs and the guy with 2009 Tacoma is frugal with his money. It's not a good indicator but a rush to judgement.
Make sure as many have stated above compare apples to apples and not Honey Crisp to Gala.
I would weed out the $44K because of the recent info on his background. If it was a $3000 job you paying cash might not be a worry. Spending $60k on a garage I want some recourse legally if needed, so him being licensed and bonded makes sense.
The two middle bids are pretty close $50 and $52.60 per square foot seems those guys are on the same page information wise for the building, check out their work and references.
I would just ask the highest bidder what's up make sure he knows what you want and isn't doing more or using higher cost material. Maybe his labor is more or traveling further, or he does fewer high priced jobs per year and the other guys do more volume.

I sometimes would put a high bid out because I didn't want to do the job, I didn't like the customer or the work or whatever. Thought was if they went for that high bid it wouldn't be so bad for the money I was making. I don't do that anymore, I'll just say sorry not interested.

The other thing which of the 4 did you like and think you could get along with for 2 or 3 months, which guy seemed upfront and honest and would do what he says.

 

[WhiffySpark]

What vehicle did each person arrive in? If the $73k guy showed up in a 18' loaded F350 and the $44k showed up in a 09' Tacoma, theres a quick indicator as to where the additional expense might be going.

No. That has nothing to do with it

 

[WhiffySpark]

I'm consistently the low bidder in my line of work and it's only because we charge a 33% markup on parts and the actual labour time, not double of everything like the others. We still lose 75% of the jobs because people are spooked by the lowest price.

I don't build garages but I'm suggesting you do your research. Low bidder isn't always bad workmanship.

My boss took the middle bid to do his roof. I did the math and it worked out that he got charged $100 an hour for every $15 an hour laborer that was on site. What a rip off.

How is that a rip off?

 

[Trey T]

I'm consistently the low bidder in my line of work and it's only because we charge a 33% markup on parts and the actual labour time, not double of everything like the others. We still lose 75% of the jobs because people are spooked by the lowest price.

I don't build garages but I'm suggesting you do your research. Low bidder isn't always bad workmanship.

My boss took the middle bid to do his roof. I did the math and it worked out that he got charged $100 an hour for every $15 an hour laborer that was on site. What a rip off.

What do you build? Are all of your workers (and subs) e-verified or able to be e-verified?

 

[GirchyGirchy]

I use to think that too if the guy showed up in a $60,000 truck must be charging too much. Reality could be is he is in debt up to his eyeballs and the guy with 2009 Tacoma is frugal with his money.

Or, he doesn't have time to waste while his old beat up truck is in the garage every week getting fixed.

Personally, I'd rather have something nice parked in my driveway, rather than some rattletrap POS puking out all of its coolant, like the last company we didn't hire for a job. I'd rather not have to come home and clean up oil drips every f'ing day.

 

[Tynee]

Your scope of work should be generalized in this fashion:

1. design, plan, and permit
2. earthwork/foundation
3. structures:
3a. concrete slab (material/labor/equipment)
3b. framing (material/labor/equipment)
3c. exterior (material/labor/equipment)
3d. roofing (material/labor/equipment)
4. utilities:
4a. plumbing (material/labor/equipment)
4b. electrical (material/labor/equipment)
5. interior:
5a. insulation (material/labor/equipment)
5b. wall cover (material/labor/equipment)
6. misc: everything else here

don't be too specific though or else you won't get any bids. i.e. if you request for e-verified for anyone working on your property, specifically in TX, you will not get any bids.

Speaking as a guy who's been through this very recently on a lot bigger scale in my professional life, this is good advice. I would add to it that you want a breakdown of material dollars, labor dollars, and labor hours. I don't know if builders are willing to provide this much information, but if you find one who is willing to be that transparent, I'd say you're getting a good contractor who will treat your project with professionalism.

If you can get these 3 pieces of information for each of Trey's categories, THEN you'll know where to start asking specific questions: "I notice you've got more money in overhead doors than any of your competitors. If I spec a comparable product from another brand, can you beat that cost?" Or, "You've got significantly more hours in framing labor than the other 3 bids I got. What's in there that the others may have missed?"

This goes back to a thorough written scope of work. It's easy to come up with the categories that fit your project if you've already built the project in your head and on paper while developing the scope.

 

[nolimits76]

Well, I think I figured out why the low bidder came in so low. After some back and forth, I don't think he has a license nor is he insured. I asked to see these things and at first got a "ok, i'll send them over." After a day or so and me asking again, he said he was waiting to get all the licenses and insurance from the subs he uses.

Then I got a call from him telling me that he just recently was getting some phone calls from unhappy customers of jobs that he never did. After some research with his attorney, they figured out the calls were for a defunct company of the same name. His attorney advised him to close his company so he did that. He then said he joined up with a friend who owns a roofing company that he does a lot of work with anyway. So now he would be doing the work under that company. He sent me the business license and liability insurance of the roofing company. Turns out that a roofing company does not need a contractor license in Georgia.

I got all of this Friday afternoon so I haven't had a chance to speak with him since, but this all sounds like a big fish story to me. I actually called one of his references who I already talked with that spoke very highly of him and he said he never asked about his license or insurance. I've also looked him up on the Georgia professional licensing website and I can't find him or his company. I can, however, find the other 3 that gave me estimates. Big fish story or what?

I've been in commercial and heavy/highway contracting for 20+ years and built projects in excess of $200 million. Every stinking time I get a sub with BS stories like this -- they are a problem, plain & simple.

Many owners get confused with lowest bidder vs lowest qualified bidder. The latter means the contractor with the best price that also has the best qualifications to get the job done to your standards, schedule, safety requirements, etc.

When I saw your first post, I honestly thought to myself I'd interview the $44k, $57k and $60k guys and see what red flags popped out. Depending how detailed you were with drawings & specs, I assume you have some scope gaps that can be cleared up at this level of the negotiation/interview process.

Since the $44k guy popped red flags galore, I would put him on the back burner while I continued my talks with the $57k and $60k guys. Step 1 is to make sure everyone is quoting the exact same thing -- materials, schedule, licensing, etc. Once that is done, I'd lean on these two guys and explain you have a lower quote and they need to help you with the dollar side of the equation.

You may or may not get the full $13k difference -- but if you are able to get half of the difference, and eliminate the risk of the low guy then it's a win in my books.

 

[redneckcharlie]

The op’s project is very simple, both in scope and execution. On a proposal for something similar I’ll spec shingle type and manufacturer, crete psi, and slab thickness. Garage doors are x, etc. I will not break down labor by line item nor material by line item. It isn’t worth my time, nor am I going to play the game you spec’d x recessed can for 11.88 and I found them for 11.33. That’s just an example. I purchase at a better price then any homeowner will have access to. I’m sure its the same for any good reputable contractor any where. Its perfectly acceptable for the homeowner to say what they would like, but if a homeowner starts making a simple bid process so complicated they take a very big risk of a good contractor seeing a potential nuisance client and simply passing. What you are suggesting is the norm for any government contract, but for a simple residential project it isnt necessary unless your suspect of the contractor, and in that case you pass yourself.

Speaking as a guy who's been through this very recently on a lot bigger scale in my professional life, this is good advice. I would add to it that you want a breakdown of material dollars, labor dollars, and labor hours. I don't know if builders are willing to provide this much information, but if you find one who is willing to be that transparent, I'd say you're getting a good contractor who will treat your project with professionalism.

If you can get these 3 pieces of information for each of Trey's categories, THEN you'll know where to start asking specific questions: "I notice you've got more money in overhead doors than any of your competitors. If I spec a comparable product from another brand, can you beat that cost?" Or, "You've got significantly more hours in framing labor than the other 3 bids I got. What's in there that the others may have missed?"

This goes back to a thorough written scope of work. It's easy to come up with the categories that fit your project if you've already built the project in your head and on paper while developing the scope.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Another outside the box idea is to see if a contractor you like will accept "time plus materials". I've had guys I paid hourly for the workers plus materials plus 15% overhead. He gave me a list of the hours every two weeks and all the receipts for the materials. The 15% overhead was also applied to both the time and the materials.
It's actually a great way to do a project, as you know you are never paying for an "overbid" and the contractor never has to rush and skimp to make a profit. If you want a change or something done in a more time consuming way, it's not a problem for the contractor, you just have to pay for the extra time or material.
The big problem with doing time and materials is that if you do not have a good estimate or if you make expensive changes you can end up way over budget and run out of money. That is a very good reason to use a fixed price contract and change orders for modifications to the plan. But if you can handle it, the time plus materials seems like the fairest system to me.