Decisions on choosing my mini split

[therest]

I’m looking at cooling/heating the garage. It’s an attached 2 car garage with an extra space in the back and with the master bedroom above it. You can see in the picture below. It’s about 500 sq with no windows and 2 garage doors facing SE. I plan on insulating the garage doors a bit if I feel it’s needed. I do some woodworking and work on my cars. I don’t need it to be freezing cold in the summer and toasty warm in the winter, just a bit more comfortable in both summer and winter. Heck, even just lowering the humidity substantially would make it more comfortable in the summer. I’ve read that a smaller unit, like the one I’m considering, is better at removing humidity. So my research has helped me decide on a 1 ton 12 BTU unit. Looking at a 220V, but 110V will be fine too. My question for you guys is just, am I on the right track?

 

[therest]

Also, my master bedroom is above the garage and is typically the hottest room in the house. Would I see a drop in temperature by having the mini-split running in the garage?

 

[finn]

1 ton seems to be far too large for that space but it really depends on your location and climate

 

[Jinks]

Why is it so difficult to get people to put a location in their posts?! The answer is going to differ somewhat between Miami & Anchorage!

I have just over 450sqft in one garage with a mini split. Mine is a 220V 12,000 btu unit. It cools & dries the space just fine. Better if I turn it on early on hot days, but well enough even if I wait till the heat of the day. As with yours I have bedrooms over the shop on the second floor. I don't see any cooling effect in them from running the mini split, but I also don't see any rise in electric billing when I do run it.

All of the above considered, I'm happy with my unit. However if it ever dies I will probably replace it with an 18K DIY. I can do a better installation than Larry, Moe, & Curly (the professionals that installed mine), & a little quicker cooling won't hurt. YMMV.......WHEREVER you are.........

 

[therest]

Houston, TX

 

[MrSurly]

460sf, 8' ceiling(?) Are the exterior walls insulated? Is the ceiling insulated?
It sounds like even an 8000 unit could be overkill. I'm from that part of the state and I know about the atrocious humidity. If you vastly oversize the unit you'll actually limit its humidity control aspect.
The room is really a half-ton size (if insulated) but I'd suggest 8K or 10K max.
You definitely want to insulate the door, seriously, you really need to do this even if you don't AC the place. The house AC will have to combat less heat gain as a result.

A serious question: Why a mini split when a window unit mounted through the wall would seem (maybe only to me) to be a natural fit for this job?

 

[MrSurly]

Another question occurs to me: given the conditioned spaces both beside and above, have you considered simply adding registers to add this space to your existing house AC's coverage?

 

[therest]

MrSurly I'm seriously, in a somewhat good way, surprised by the answers of it being oversized for the space. I thought it was a very good size for it. The space is actually 500 sq ft. I don't know for sure if the exterior wall is insulated but my guess is that it is.

The reason I considered a mini split instead of a window unit is because I can get a new 1 ton 220v unit for about $400. I’ve seen window units go for that much and more. Also, I feel like the window unit would be more of a difficult job to do, to me at least.

I never considered adding more registers to the garage and I probably should but a mini split to me just seems to have more advantages.

 

[finn]

Another question occurs to me: given the conditioned spaces both beside and above, have you considered simply adding registers to add this space to your existing house AC's coverage?

That’s against most building codes.

 

[PCMusicGuy]

MrSurly I'm seriously, in a somewhat good way, surprised by the answers of it being oversized for the space. I thought it was a very good size for it. The space is actually 500 sq ft. I don't know for sure if the exterior wall is insulated but my guess is that it is.

The reason I considered a mini split instead of a window unit is because I can get a new 1 ton 220v unit for about $400. I’ve seen window units go for that much and more. Also, I feel like the window unit would be more of a difficult job to do, to me at least.

I never considered adding more registers to the garage and I probably should but a mini split to me just seems to have more advantages.

In the Houston area, your exterior garage walls are probably not insulated if the house has been built in the past 10 or so years. I would ensure the walls and garage door are insulated and do the mini-split. Adding off your existing A/C may be a problem if you ever sale the home.

What are the specifics of your $400 1 ton mini-split?

 

[MrSurly]

What are the specifics of your $400 1 ton mini-split? Curious about this as well. That's a steal for a mini split.

 

[therest]

In the Houston area, your exterior garage walls are probably not insulated if the house has been built in the past 10 or so years. I would ensure the walls and garage door are insulated and do the mini-split. Adding off your existing A/C may be a problem if you ever sale the home.

What are the specifics of your $400 1 ton mini-split?

My house was built in the early 80s.

 

[therest]

What are the specifics of your $400 1 ton mini-split? Curious about this as well. That's a steal for a mini split.

MrSurly, the unit is a Mirage Magnum 17. If you search for it you will or will not find out that it's a unit made for the Latin market. It is basically a Latin version of the Mirage Magnum 16, which is made for the U.S. market. It's a 1ton 12,000 BTU R410A 220V Cold and heating unit. I'm sourcing mine from Mexico. I'ts not the fanciest or most well known per se, but in Mexico these are one of the very common and well recommended brands there.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Also, my master bedroom is above the garage and is typically the hottest room in the house. Would I see a drop in temperature by having the mini-split running in the garage?

Nope. Hot air rises, cold air falls. You need more insulation in the attic above that bedroom.

OR

Get a mini-split with 2 air handlers ! The inside units run independently so you can set the temp in each location.

Where do you live and how cold does it get in winter ? Cheap mini-splits use resistance heat below about 40F. Very expensive to operate.

 

[sherlocktk]

This all depends on your insulation.

My attached garage is ~600sq ft in so California summer typically 95-100 where I live. Its a similar floor plan to yours Master bedroom up top, and that room is always hot. I put in a 2 ton 24,000 BTU unit which handles my garage with an un-insulated ceiling on 2/3 of it. It keeps the space around 80 on a day its 105 outside. I am sure adding insulation will help. I typically do not run until I need it. I wanted it over sized so it has the ability to cool down the space, not just maintain a set temperature from outside all day long. I only use it probably 5-10 hours a week. Those 5 hours are on max the entire time.

In about 30 minutes the garage is nice enough to work in cooling down pretty quickly from OMG its hot in here to OK I can work in this. Left on for hours it gets nice and comfortable, cooler than the house. If your unit is an inverter, its hard to oversize them as they can slow down and use less energy when there is not a large temperature swing.

 

[strutaeng]

MrSurly, the unit is a Mirage Magnum 17. If you search for it you will or will not find out that it's a unit made for the Latin market. It is basically a Latin version of the Mirage Magnum 16, which is made for the U.S. market. It's a 1ton 12,000 BTU R410A 220V Cold and heating unit. I'm sourcing mine from Mexico. I'ts not the fanciest or most well known per se, but in Mexico these are one of the very common and well recommended brands there.

That's interesting. I had some in-laws here in DFW visiting from Mexico just recently and we talking about mini-splits. I was telling that another in-law had told me mini-splits down in Mexico are way cheaper than they are in the US. Based on what they were telling me, it seems to match your pricing.

They did mention the Mirage brand. Do you have an importer? Please send me a PM if so. Sounds like I need to start an importing gig, LOL.

 

[MrSurly]

They did mention the Mirage brand. Do you have an importer? Please send me a PM if so. Sounds like I need to start an importing gig, LOL.

Now I’m really curious(!)
I mostly wonder if the non-US units have a UL stamp or CE or whatever is used in Mexico.

Make a difference? I don’t know. I mean I’m sure someone will say that *theoretically* in the event of an insurance claim (say there was fire damage) the insurer might reject but I don’t believe that anyway.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jinks]

Houston, TX

Ok, same basic latitude. You guys seem to get a bit warmer, probably from having water only on one side. Humidity ~ probably similar. Here's a little anecdotal info on how today went with mine.

Worked in the yard for 2 or 3 hours & got real hot/sweaty/tired. Came into the garage, shady with two fans running. It was 90 outside, 89 inside, but the fans weren't doing much good. My wife went upstairs to shower & cool down, I was next. While waiting for her to finish I ran the garage door half (1/2) way down & turned the mini split on. The 12K mini split was blowing cool air into a half open garage. Not terribly efficient, but I wanted to be able to see out yet wanted some cool air. Took about 2 - 3 minutes to feel cool breezes. Within 10 minutes the thermometer read 90 outside, 88 inside. A few minutes later I went up to shower & closed the garage door. I was back down 30 minutes after I had started the mini split. The thermometer read 90 outside, 84 inside. It was cool, dry, & comfortable. If I'd left it on it would have been 78 or 79 within an hour, but we shut down & went out for dinner.
An 18K would have cooled quicker & given you the ability to use it with the door open, partly open, or opening & closing as you need.

Keep posting & let us know how you do with the Mirage brand, sounds interesting.

 

[sreeb]

I personally would oversize a garage A/C since I would only use it intermittently and need a fast pull down. Humidity isn't much of a factor here though.

 

[justinjoyal]

Where do you live and how cold does it get in winter ? Cheap mini-splits use resistance heat below about 40F. Very expensive to operate.

You would have to show me a mini-split that uses resistance heat (except for defrosting) because I have never seen that. How would it even work?

 

[therest]

Good morning. I don't know much about certifications and stampings on the unit, but I do know its an inverter type system. You see, in Mexico there are a lot of the older non inverter rotary systems still sold but I would say a good majority are inverter.

My "contact" is my brother in law, but he isn't a distributor or seller of any kind. He is simply bringing it to me since he is coming for a wedding in September, which is the only downfall for me since I want it like yesterday. Ha. Still, for the price I'm paying I'm ok in waiting.

I will say, if you search in Facebook marketplace or CL, I see a few people who bring the cheaper rotary mini splits from Mexico in greater quantities and sell them for right around $400 as well. I of course have done some research and wouldn’t want one of those, and if I did I could just get it imported with my brother in law as they cost right around $250. The Mexican peso is at a weak point so it is a good time to buy or travel to safer parts of Mexico.

 

[therest]

This is the unit I believe is the U.S. version of the one I'm getting. It's like an entry level unit but should do just fine. Mirage is known in Mexico as a reliable brand. I did speak once to a U.S. Mirage distributor and he told me products in Mexico are just simply cheaper and also told me that I couldn't claim warranty for it since it is installed in the U.S. which at that price point I'm still willing to go this route.

http://www.hvacmirage.us/products/magnum-16/

 

[strutaeng]

Good morning. I don't know much about certifications and stampings on the unit, but I do know its an inverter type system. You see, in Mexico there are a lot of the older non inverter rotary systems still sold but I would say a good majority are inverter.

My "contact" is my brother in law, but he isn't a distributor or seller of any kind. He is simply bringing it to me since he is coming for a wedding in September, which is the only downfall for me since I want it like yesterday. Ha. Still, for the price I'm paying I'm ok in waiting.

I will say, if you search in Facebook marketplace or CL, I see a few people who bring the cheaper rotary mini splits from Mexico in greater quantities and sell them for right around $400 as well. I of course have done some research and wouldn’t want one of those, and if I did I could just get it imported with my brother in law as they cost right around $250. The Mexican peso is at a weak point so it is a good time to buy or travel to safer parts of Mexico.

Thank you. That seems like the route I was thinking of taking. I'm in no hurry, maybe next summer.

It is rather surprising that these things are so expensive here in the US, while they are less expensive in the rest of the world. It is quite the opposite of every other commodity sold.

 

[Jackfre]

Electric resistance heating does not exist in a plastic bodied mini-split. It is illegal. EMI used to make a metal bodied unit that had some resistance heating. I don't know if they are still made. They were ugly, noisy and inefficient.
I think the 12 is the right size for your use. Generally, I don't like to oversize, but you are in Houston. The more useful number to compare for a 7, 9 or 12, or any mini-split comparison is the low operation number. How low will its produce H or C? In most cases I am familiar with the low difference between 9's and 12's is a couple hundred btu's.

 

[chinboys]

Cool air drops to low points so I would suggest a big unit in the master bedroom area with door open to the below garage.
Or get a properly sized mini split unit (condenser) that has 3 circuits (LG calls it flex zones) to supply freon to upstairs and two downstairs wall or ceiling units (evaporators).
Get invert technology as these have the highest SEERs values unless your Kilowatt hour costs are cheap.

You then get to run the system for the area you want to be cool.

Or get two window or wall units that you run the same way but noisier and less efficient.
And simpler to install.

 

[therest]

Thanks everyone, my goal is only to cool/heat the garage. I was just wondering if it could possibly affect the temperate in my master bedroom since it's right above it. Sorry for any confusion.

For the master I'm probably just going to use a small fan right next to me and my bed when i sleep. It should do just fine.

 

[Bills Tools]

Why not just put in a Mitsubishi MXZ multi-head mini-split system and do the master bedroom and garage? You can even AC a 3rd room since usually there are at least 3 line-set connections. If the bedroom is right over the garage it should be a simple install. Mabey 1-2 days of work

 

[therest]

Why not just put in a Mitsubishi MXZ multi-head mini-split system and do the master bedroom and garage? You can even AC a 3rd room since usually there are at least 3 line-set connections. If the bedroom is right over the garage it should be a simple install. Mabey 1-2 days of work

Hey Bills Tools, well because I only cared to really cool the garage since it has NO cooling, and also I can't afford a Mitsubishi MXZ multi-head mini-split system. The mini split I'm buying is right around $400.

 

[Browneye]

Mirage is a big name worldwide, it's just that mini-splits in general are not nearly as popular in the US as they should be - that's the HVAC industry protecting it's trade.

You can source the same unit here in the states, likely not far from where you live, for about the same price. They all come from MIDEA which is a huge chinese manufacturer.
Another to consider is AUX - also a large china manufacturer - they all use GMCC compressors.

Some of us paid extra for a similar unit, fairly universally available, called MrCool, that has pre-charged lineset already attached to the air handler, so you just connect to the condenser, open the freon valves, and go. You don't need an HVAC pro to vac/test/turnup. And their warranty covers a DIY install.


12K btu is not too large for 4-500 square feet. 9 will do it, but 12 is fine as well.

We love ours - could replace them 3 more times for what the pro's quoted to install them.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Electric resistance heating does not exist in a plastic bodied mini-split. It is illegal. EMI used to make a metal bodied unit that had some resistance heating. I don't know if they are still made. They were ugly, noisy and inefficient.
I think the 12 is the right size for your use. Generally, I don't like to oversize, but you are in Houston. The more useful number to compare for a 7, 9 or 12, or any mini-split comparison is the low operation number. How low will its produce H or C? In most cases I am familiar with the low difference between 9's and 12's is a couple hundred btu's.

plenty of window units with heat and PTACs out there are plastic and yet have electric resistance heat in them. for example, my FFRH0822R1 - UL listed too.

 

[therest]

I'm wondering if having it put on very back end of the garage is the best place. above the workbench. Here are some pics.

Thoughts?

 

[Browneye]

I would not want it there - it's always going to be blowing on you - and they're ice cold. [shrug]

If you're mostly sitting you can likely direct the air flow over your head, so it may be less of an issue.

In my experience, sitting in front of one chills you in very short order.

 

[Zupdave]

Hello, I just installed this system about a month ago. Its a 12,000 btu 20 seer, 220v purchased from Alpine home air. https://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewcategory.cfm?categoryID=97
My garage is about 400 square foot, with 10 foot ceilings. It has 2 garage doors facing South, that are insulated. My house also has the bedroom over the garage, and the exposed outside wall has no insulation. I live in Maryland, just North of Baltimore. It is extremely hot and humid during the summer. We recently had a 100 deg day. I had the unit full blast, set at 61 on “Turbo” mode. It cooled the garage to 68.
I dont really notice if the bedroom is any cooler when it is on. Hind sight, I should have purchased a dual zone, and put another air handler in the bedroom. It would have been just slightly more money and labor. The associate at Alpine was very informative. She said that the cooling is easy, but the heating is the tough part. That is why she recommended the larger unit. Her name is Meghan Lydon, 800-865-5931 ext. 394. The website also has a btu calculator you can use.
We also have very cold winters here. I do have a 220v space heater that I used last winter, and it worked extremely well.

 

[Jinks]

I'm wondering if having it put on very back end of the garage is the best place. above the workbench. Here are some pics.
Thoughts?

No, just in front of your pegboard will cool the entire place better.

BTW, if possible have your brother bring two or more in with him. You'll have a backup (at VERY low cost) if you have a problem, & can probably sell one for a profit if they work well.

Warranties are great, but life doesn't always come with one.............

 

[Paul1114]

I just wrapped up installing a 12k btu in my 2 car garage; second self install I've done. I've seen some mentions of MrCool and some other cheaper brands; personally I'm a big fan of Pioneer. Cheap units, decent quality, and you can often get a "scratch and dent" unit at a discount right from the manufacturer.

The Pioneer units are also pre-charged if that matters; all you need (realistically, since the line set is almost always too long or short) is a cheap flaring kit and some nylog blue to make sure the connections stay nice and sealed.

Edit: I've also seen some brands on eBay that appear to use the same indoor unit as Pioneer but are cheaper; not sure about the outdoor units.

 

[therest]

Hello, I just installed this system about a month ago. Its a 12,000 btu 20 seer, 220v purchased from Alpine home air. https://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewcategory.cfm?categoryID=97
My garage is about 400 square foot, with 10 foot ceilings. It has 2 garage doors facing South, that are insulated. My house also has the bedroom over the garage, and the exposed outside wall has no insulation. I live in Maryland, just North of Baltimore. It is extremely hot and humid during the summer. We recently had a 100 deg day. I had the unit full blast, set at 61 on “Turbo” mode. It cooled the garage to 68.
I dont really notice if the bedroom is any cooler when it is on. Hind sight, I should have purchased a dual zone, and put another air handler in the bedroom. It would have been just slightly more money and labor. The associate at Alpine was very informative. She said that the cooling is easy, but the heating is the tough part. That is why she recommended the larger unit. Her name is Meghan Lydon, 800-865-5931 ext. 394. The website also has a btu calculator you can use.
We also have very cold winters here. I do have a 220v space heater that I used last winter, and it worked extremely well.

What a clean install. Looks great. 68 degrees on a 100 degree day?! That's impressive.

 

[therest]

I just wrapped up installing a 12k btu in my 2 car garage; second self install I've done. I've seen some mentions of MrCool and some other cheaper brands; personally I'm a big fan of Pioneer. Cheap units, decent quality, and you can often get a "scratch and dent" unit at a discount right from the manufacturer.

The Pioneer units are also pre-charged if that matters; all you need (realistically, since the line set is almost always too long or short) is a cheap flaring kit and some nylog blue to make sure the connections stay nice and sealed.

Edit: I've also seen some brands on eBay that appear to use the same indoor unit as Pioneer but are cheaper; not sure about the outdoor units.

Are there a lot of unit that are not pre-charged? I have this assumption that all of them are.

 

[therest]

In the picture below you’ll see where the mini split would be if I install it above the workbench.

 

[renjaminfrankln]

Alright here is one for you.

588sf 2 car attached garage with 11' ceilings and drywall. I plan to insulate the door with something easy/cheap and seal up any gaps.

Climate - North Carolina. Muggy and 95F summer days, winter lows around freezing with highs in the 50's.

18,000 BTU pioneer or 24,000 BTU pioneer? The 18k is higher seer and $200 less (I wonder if they just crank the juice on that model to get 24k in the other unit).

 

[Zupdave]

Thanks! Question, What is the reason you want the air handler over the workbench? I’m thinking so the outside unit is at the back of the house? Most of these units are pre-charged and mine had a minimum line length of 10 foot, and a max of 40ft. If you installed the air handler over the workbench and the outside unit directly under, you may have to bleed out some of the refrigerant. In any case, these mini splits have a little swing that moves up and down and are usually adjustable, and move a huge amount of air. You would probably be fine just about anywhere. I personally would mount it on the right side of the garage(looking in) and run the refrigerant lines to the back. The line set covers are pretty inexpensive, and can be painted to match your siding/brick. I bought my set from Amazon, and it worked just fine.