Deck Screws for Framing???

[karoc]

Guys my project is 3 hrs away and I am thinking about prefabbing the ext walls. Load the 16' long walls on my 16' long trailer that's 10' tall and haul them to my place. I am also thinking about maybe using deck screws that's 3 1/2 long to put the walls together here at my house as time permits. Well decking screws can get expensive using 3 in each stud, so who can I buy these screws from that has best price for few hundred screws? The screws will be going through treated bottom plate so screw will need to be rust resistance due to chemicals. Is 3 1/2 long enough to go through bottom plate and top plate into stud? I purchase one box of 3 1/2 while back from HD and they were 44.00 for one of their tubs. Who has best price and what is the best screws to use for framing ext walls? Does this sound crazy? Any links to websites or suggestions? Thanks GJ for all the help

 

[Gizzygone]

Screws don’t have the shear strength that nails do, so I’m not sure it’s a great idea long term…

You could probably get away with structural screws, but they will cost even more, and add lots of time to the project.

I’d stick to nails…. If you don’t have a compressor, it’s a good excuse to get one.

And if you need a framing nailer: the hitachi models at lowes are pretty dang good, and aren’t too expensive.

 

[mepstein]

I used the 3.5” construction screws to rehab my workshop. Not cheap but easy to get more when I need them. I don’t like chasing around to save a couple bucks.

 

[mepstein]

I used the 3.5” construction screws to rehab my workshop & add blocking to my deck. Not cheap but easy to get more when I need them. I don’t like chasing around to save a couple bucks.

 

[Gizzygone]

Ah… but I now understand what you’re trying to say… you want it to be portable.

No harm in prefabbing small portions with deck screws and breaking it back down ikea style, but I’d final assemble with nails.

 

[jar944]

You could use architectural screws. I prefer spax myself.

 

[BruceMc]

Guys my project is 3 hrs away and I am thinking about prefabbing the ext walls. Load the 16' long walls on my 16' long trailer that's 10' tall and haul them to my place...
... Does this sound crazy?

A little, maybe. Can't see how you are going to save any time or effort once you account for loading and then unloading those walls. Why not just cut everything to length at home, then assemble on the site?

 

[ddurrett896]

Building walls is pretty quick and easy. If you want to save time, I’d layout the top plates and mark stud locations and trailer those.

 

[nadogail]

I like the idea of prefabbing your wall sections and hauling them to your job site on a trailer, I had the same idea when I was young and dumb (late 1950's). I can no longer use young as an excuse for errors in judgement. My plan was to prefab the wall sections in a heated garage, I was in Anchorage Alaska at the time. I owned a pickup and pneumatic nailers were not known to me. I would use a pneumatic framing nailer and I would add plywood sheathing to the sections to prevent racking.

 

[CTyankee]

GRK R4 screws 3 1/8" - 3 1/2". You won't like the price. As to nails/nail guns, given the **** being sold today good luck not splitting every other stud. JMO. YMMV.

 

[zeke67]

While you can work around or justify screws, for sheer strengh nails will be faster and cheaper even if hand nailing. Finishing up stuff (like cripple studs), connecting sections, or hard to get at things like toe nailing, screws can be an easier way to get a frame member in place before throwing in a couple of nails.

 

[PoorUB]

Careful which screws you use! I built a deck a few years back. I had to remove a couple of the deck boards for access on another project and a good third of the deck board screws were broken off

 

[Shiftless]

Careful which screws you use! I built a deck a few years back. I had to remove a couple of the deck boards for access on another project and a good third of the deck board screws were broken off

Is that because you screwed the boards down into pressure treated joists using screws not rated for PT or was there another reason that such a large percentage of the screws broke? What gauge screws?
I‘m just trying to learn about such fastener failures.
Thanks

 

[PoorUB]

Is that because you screwed the boards down into pressure treated joists using screws not rated for PT or was there another reason that such a large percentage of the screws broke? What gauge screws?
I‘m just trying to learn about such fastener failures.
Thanks

The screws were bought from a reputable lumber yard. I forget the brand, but they were bought specifically for treated wood. I don't recall the gauge, but they should have been adequate. They were heavier than drywall screws.

 

[marak]

I am an advocate for the use of deck screws in such an application; however, I believe they should always be used in conjunction with framing nails suitable to the wood being used. Pneumatic framing nailer from HF has served me very well. As Gizzygone mentioned, deck screws of the size mentioned do not have the same shear strength. The benefit the screws add is pullout strength. I have done structural testing on trusses constructed using different fastening methods and those which were constructed using both framing nails and screws performed remarkedly better. One could see the nails bend and pull out with the screws still biting into the wood, tearing their was out. Screws alone failed in more of a brittle nature and you could hear them pop.

I use tons of deck screws for tons of things, including concrete forms for a 4' tall x 8" thick retaining wall (note I also used some structural screws as well: TimberLok and HeadLok). All wood was reusable as a result. I would guess that there was a 5% or so failure rate, heads fractured off, but then again I am constantly reusing screws so that may have been a contributing factor.

I purchase the largest tubs off amazon, 25# tubs I think, as they are cheaper than I can find in town and rarely does anyone other than amazon offer free shipping to Alaska so I didn't look elsewhere on the internet. That's the cost of having mountains and glaciers in the backyard.

Happy building!

 

[Shiftless]

U.B.:
Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry you had such trouble. I have backed out screws sunk in PT wood on projects 20 years old without that problem. Maybe we can blame the new chemistry now used in pressure treated wood.

 

[egdede]

GRK construction screws, and they handle the brown-wood long term. But as noted above by CTyankee, they are spendy.....

My house is 90 years old, framed with cedar (I believe). Nail guns will sometimes split the 2x material if I try to tie in. The GRK screws do not need predrilling. They are the F'n bomb.

 

[HenryAZ]

Nail your nails in on a slight angle, one this way, the next one the other way. They don't come out quite so easily as nails nailed straight in.

 

[rancherbill]

I wouldn't use screws.

I would use Hurriquake nails. They hold like crazy and the are relatively cheap. I had to take some stuff apart that had them and they REALLY HELD.

Brand names vary, here's some pics. You can get them in stick or coil. If it's for stick, then check the degrees on your nailer.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hur...WD9UQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1154&bih=526&dpr=1.66

 

[karoc]

Thanks for all reply’s, that was one of my concerns was shear strength using screws. I have old duo-fast framing nail gun, I may have dust it off

 

[CraigStu]

Do you have to worry about building code on this build? If so check to be sure screws are allowed. OTOH, I have helped out on a couple of garage builds and an air powered nail gun is absolutely the fastest way to go. My projects are usually smaller than a garage so I use a lot of screws. But, if I were building a garage, a nail gun would be #1 on the need to have list.

 

[APEowner]

I wouldn't use decking screws but apart from cost there's no reason to not use framing screws. That's what they're for.

 

[karoc]

No worries no HOA or building codes, this will be retirement home/shop. Not getting the full force of hurricane’s but still get strong winds. Thinking that with screws it would help hold together, so shear strength is at question. Does GRK R4 have shear strength ?

 

[Stuart in MN]

https://www.mcfeelys.com is supposed to be a good source for buying screws in bulk.

 

[brownbagg]

this is a simple answer:
will building code allow you to use screws, if yes then go for it

 

[Jarwop]

"Load the 16' long walls on my 16' long trailer that's 10' tall and haul" Is the trailer enclosed and 10 foot tall" ? Will the walls be stood up on the trailer or are the walls 16 feet long and 10 feet tall and planning to lay flat on the trailer?. If moving flat on an open trailer, anything over 8.5 feet wide may require a oversize permit. Then again, everything is bigger in Texas!

 

[egdede]

No worries no HOA or building codes, this will be retirement home/shop. Not getting the full force of hurricane’s but still get strong winds. Thinking that with screws it would help hold together, so shear strength is at question. Does GRK R4 have shear strength ?

GRK R-4 is the type of screw. They are rated for shear. The smaller sizes can't replace 16d sinkers. I always use #10 by 31/2 when framing. I've had inspectors get up close and look at the head of the screw. They know what GRK construction screws look like...

Those ring shank screws are actually not called for in Ca code on shear-walls because they grip too much. whther that ois because they don not want drum-tight tension on shear walls, or because they want to prevevnt the destruction of framing (which occurs when ring shanks are pulled out? I don't know...

 

[karoc]

GRK R-4 is the type of screw. They are rated for shear. The smaller sizes can't replace 16d sinkers. I always use #10 by 31/2 when framing. I've had inspectors get up close and look at the head of the screw. They know what GRK construction screws look like...

Those ring shank screws are actually not called for in Ca code on shear-walls because they grip too much. whther that ois because they don not want drum-tight tension on shear walls, or because they want to prevevnt the destruction of framing (which occurs when ring shanks are pulled out? I don't know...

That’s good hear, they are expensive but for me I do like the ideal plus will also have sheathing on house which will help with shear strength. Thanks for responding

 

[sjvicker]

I'm in a similar situation as you and try to pre-build as much as I can before making the drive. I quickly regretted this when I did walls as it just wasn't worth the hassle of moving them around. When I do it again I'll lay out the walls, mark, cut and label everything and build on site.

I've used deck screws in all of my non-structural home projects and built a small shed using them. They're great but I'd move to structural screws or nails in anything structural or beyond a shed.

 

[karoc]

I'm in a similar situation as you and try to pre-build as much as I can before making the drive. I quickly regretted this when I did walls as it just wasn't worth the hassle of moving them around. When I do it again I'll lay out the walls, mark, cut and label everything and build on site.

I've used deck screws in all of my non-structural home projects and built a small shed using them. They're great but I'd move to structural screws or nails in anything structural or beyond a shed.

I agree with you, going to do like your doing and mark all where studs go on bottom top plate, make corner studs and go ahead build door/ window framing. But assemble at other place. Lumber yard sent me 20’ 2x’s so I need cut them to correct length minus double top plate and bottom plate. So waiting on my Milwaukee cordless saw show up

 

[finn]

Nails are a yes.

Construction screws are a yes, but an expensive one.

Deck screws are a no.

 

[rayra]

OP, prefab is a useful idea, but wrasslin those big wall sections might be problematic if you don't have enough help.

I just did a tiny version of your project, working on building a shed extension for my parents. I basically cut all my materials at home ahead of time and transported the flooring / decking pieces as a 'kit' in my Suburban. Made assembly on-site pretty quick.

And I used some GRK screws to attach the end joists and some big Simpson structural screws to sister the long rim joist to the floor joist on the existing structure.

Next week I go over with about 45 studs, mostly pre-cut, but I'll probably rent a framing nailer. I have a portable compressor to power such.
I could and might pre-fab the walls in 4'W panels, but the footprint is only 6'x10' so it is scarcely worth it. I can frame and stand the end walls / doors on the deck, and then do likewise with the long wall between them. So pre-assembly isn't going to save me much time on installation.


/and yes, that joist floor is offset. Long boring frustrating story, don't ask.

 

[karoc]

Your right about that rayra, I do plan get some help when it comes time to lift them up. No volunteers, so it be hired help, so I want to be able to get my moneys worth for days pay. So I plan to get all sections put together and lay the sections on slab to where all need to do is raise them and brace. I hope to plan this when I can take off for week to get all this done, next will be trusses, which I will need help and thinking about renting scissor lift to help lift them in place or I hope to.

 

[gagecalman]

Lots of good info here. He prefabs his walls. Look back at some of his older videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ken311953/videos?app=desktop

 

[johnharris]

I wouldn't use deck screws for framing. Framing nails have much more torque. The 3-in-1 framing nail gun from Harbor Freight has served me well. I only used deck screws for temporary bracing the walls and trusses before the sheathing was nailed on.

 

[rayra]

Your right about that rayra, I do plan get some help when it comes time to lift them up. No volunteers, so it be hired help, so I want to be able to get my moneys worth for days pay. So I plan to get all sections put together and lay the sections on slab to where all need to do is raise them and brace. I hope to plan this when I can take off for week to get all this done, next will be trusses, which I will need help and thinking about renting scissor lift to help lift them in place or I hope to.

Look into a telehandler for your trusses. Might be easier, but might not. Depends on your structure and access around or in it.

 

[joey1320]

Time is time.

The time you spend at home building the walls will be the exact same time to build them on site. I guess you can say you can build the walls while on your "Free time", meaning time you'd normally be watching TV or such, so sure, in that case you're essentially "Beating the clock". Other than that, an hour here building them to then drive 3 hours is the same as driving 3 hours to then spend an hour there building them.

No, I would not use deck screws. If using screws, use construction screws. For peace of mind, I would go with 4" screws since you'd need to go through 3" of top plate before hitting the stud. 1/2" of threads into the stud doesn't sit right with me.

Any suppliers closer to the final destination that can deliver the wood and you can build on site? Driving 3 hours (One way?), seems like a lot of wasted time and gas.

Good luck with the project.

 

[karoc]

Telehandler is good idea which I will have to work it from the inside of bldg. I like that, then with the help maybe I can get it done in week that I'll be off and maybe get few sheets of decking down.
Joey all makes sense, but I had the framing for walls delivered to where I live so that I can mark up stud locations and cut all to correct length then haul up to lake enough material that I feel can get done in days time. Having it delivered to my place near lake I think that lumber may grow legs and walk off. 3 hr drive, well that cost you pay for wanting to get away from large citys like Houston and live out in country where for now taxes be cheaper, insurance be cheaper and I'll be retired.
Thanks for good luck comment, I need all I can get.

 

[ptabatcher]

You could use architectural screws. I prefer spax myself.

+1 for Spax.