Deck Suggestions and Thoughts?

[meburdick]

How you deal with the run-off/gutter is the down side with this approach. If it works and you can manage it, it works.

In my case, I did the deck over shallow pitched roof. In that case, you build basically a plywood floor. You can either cant the joists or oversize them and rip an angle on top of them. The plywood then gets covered with that exact same rubber. Then tapering sleepers are laid above the rubber, then the deck attaches to that.

In either design, you must prepare for debris.

In my situation, the only rain hitting the open area of the deck is direct rainfall. There are gutters on the house that handle everything from the house roof above. And the open area of the new deck will be slightly smaller than what it is today, so there should effectively be "no change" since what's below the deck today has no issues.

I do understand an appreciate that it is a bit of additional protection for the joists, but the deck frame that's there today is 20 years old and still in good shape (and has no flashing tape or anything - just deck boards directly attached). I'm trying to understand how much this improves the longevity versus (like you mentioned) what I will have to deal with by changing the water runoff pattern a bit.

 

[Caa311]

It's a real simple choice. Pay for the composite now, or spread out the additional cost over years in the form of maintenance on the wood.

If it were me, I'd use a good penetrating oil stain like this from Expert Stain and Seal. It's a deep penetrating oil that protects longer. Maintenance is just clean and reapply the maintenence coat. No need to strip anything. Don't buy stain from the box store.

EXPERT® Fence & Deck Stains – Premium Oil-Based Wood Protection

Shop EXPERT® oil-based fence and deck stains. Deep-penetrating, professional-grade wood sealers for lasting beauty, UV defense, and weather protection.

restorativewoodproducts.com

I used super deck from Sherwin Williams last time on my pier. I might have to try this.

 

[PCustoms]

Separate piece for each joist bay.

They make anything like this for a retrofit?

My parents deck is fully exposed with a patio below. Be nice to have it a bit dryer, especially with winter snowmelt.

 

[mike93lx]

They make anything like this for a retrofit?

My parents deck is fully exposed with a patio below. Be nice to have it a bit dryer, especially with winter snowmelt.

There are systems that mount below the framing and use plastic or metal panels, hung at a slope. Problem is that they take up headroom

 

[PCustoms]

There are systems that mount below the framing and use plastic or metal panels, hung at a slope. Problem is that they take up headroom

I think I looked at those a few years ago, won't work.

The situation is a bit irritating. 2yrs ago they had a "patio" poured, I offered to do it if they would wait. I then suggested how it needed to be done, and they told the guy "make it look like Brenda's".

Well, they got a really ****** rough trowel finish that's sloped back towards the house and didn't get any control/expansion joints where it was poured against the existing posts.

Guess what it does in the winter when it gets melt or rain above?

Would be easy to not use that door, except it's how the get in the hot tub. Someone is going to fall and get seriously hurt.

 

[Mike65]

When we had the deck replaced on the back of our "retirement home" we had it built with PT lumber for the frame & Trex for the decking. The only maintenance we did were I sealed all the exposed lumber after about 6 months after it was built, & pressure washed the decking this month & the deck is 2 years old.

 

[PCustoms]

When we had the deck replaced on the back of our "retirement home" we had it built with PT lumber for the frame & Trex for the decking. The only maintenance we did were I sealed all the exposed lumber after about 6 months after it was built, & pressure washed the decking this month & the deck is 2 years old.

Is that stairway finished?

 

[Youngandfree]

I used super deck from Sherwin Williams last time on my pier. I might have to try this.

Expert stain and seal has great support and an app to help with quantities needed.

 

[Mike65]

Is that stairway finished?

I took that pic before they were finished, they put in another step on the left side where the ground slopes down making the last step to high up.

 

[mike93lx]

I took that pic before they were finished, they put in another step on the left side where the ground slopes down making the last step to high up.

Is it just the pic or are the top and middle steps different height? The bottom step looks a lot taller than the others when stepping down to that sloping slab, too

 

[AEAdam]

Is it just the pic or are the top and middle steps different height? The bottom step looks a lot taller than the others when stepping down to that sloping slab, too

I’d have a lot of problems with that deck. I have trouble letting stuff like that go. That’s probably why it’s taking me so long to finish my house.

The top riser is behind the tread, the next riser is on top of the tread. Looks like a 1” difference. Building code allows only 3/8 difference is riser heights.

Also looks like the support posts carry through the deck and the rim joist attaches in shear, which is now a code violation. The posts are now meant to **** into a beam, that the joists attach to.

And there’s a lot of workmanship issues, or maybe cosmetic issues there. This is what you get with deck builders today though. These guys aren’t carpenters.

 

[mike93lx]

I’d have a lot of problems with that deck. I have trouble letting stuff like that go. That’s probably why it’s taking me so long to finish my house.

The top riser is behind the tread, the next riser is on top of the tread. Looks like a 1” difference. Building code allows only 3/8 difference is riser heights.

Also looks like the support posts carry through the deck and the rim joist attaches in shear, which is now a code violation. The posts are now meant to **** into a beam, that the joists attach to.

And there’s a lot of workmanship issues, or maybe cosmetic issues there. This is what you get with deck builders today though. These guys aren’t carpenters.

Yeah those stairs scare me, based on that pic. Waiting for someone to get hurt

@Mike65 i'd really consider redoing them before something bad happens, if I'm seeing that spacing right

 

[PCustoms]

I’d have a lot of problems with that deck. I have trouble letting stuff like that go. That’s probably why it’s taking me so long to finish my house.

There's a lot of things going on with that pic that are less then optimal.

Hope those posts never need replacing....

 

[CraigStu]

Regarding payback on home additions, decks, renovations. They may not increase the sales price but they may well get the house sold faster. In the OPs situation w/ the existing deck at ? age and selling in 15 years. AT that point it it will be 15 years + ? years old. The deck he is going to build now will be a lot nicer and only be 15 yrs old. It will absolutely help sell the house.

 

[meburdick]

Regarding payback on home additions, decks, renovations. They may not increase the sales price but they may well get the house sold faster. In the OPs situation w/ the existing deck at ? age and selling in 15 years. AT that point it it will be 15 years + ? years old. The deck he is going to build now will be a lot nicer and only be 15 yrs old. It will absolutely help sell the house.

Good point on the current deck... The decking is about 20 years old currently. While it is perfectly 'functional', it's Gen1 Trex and certainly isn't pretty. When we bought the house last year, our thoughts were "great - there's a deck we can use now but we will be updating it." In 15 years, that deck would be 35 years old and I honestly doubt it would make it that far.

I would expect that, at a minimum, we would need to be replacing the existing deck no matter and would be an expense that would be required simply to be able to sell the house anywhere near market value at all. The 'extra' cost of what we are planning may bring a little more value overall, but the biggest benefit at time of sale is likely to be it appealing to buyers as a differentiator against other homes to sell more quickly / with less friction.

 

[AEAdam]

Saw some talk about building codes in this thread or some other. Just an FYI- codes for decks changed recently. You can no longer attach deck beams with screws to posts. The beams must now sit on top of the posts. Are deck beams attached with screws safe? Sure. But if you go to sell a home, a good home inspector will find that, and make it a negotiation item for the potential buyer. That's one reason why its good to know and follow the codes.

I'm currently converting a barn into a home. I have been thus far disappointed by the price/workmanship I have received. Consequently I have done almost everything myself. When people ask me why, the answer is always the same. I have enough money to pay for decent work. But I'm not finding decent quality work for the money I think is fair. Manual, essentially unskilled labor rates, over $100/hr AND result in so-so quality I find unacceptable and cynical. Even the local Amish are charging a lot for not much. The problem is, my neighbors are paying it, either unaware of the workmanshi, or having no other option. (sorry to sound like a bitter old man - i am not bitter!)

 

[meburdick]

Saw some talk about building codes in this thread or some other. Just an FYI- codes for decks changed recently. You can no longer attach deck beams with screws to posts. The beams must now sit on top of the posts. Are deck beams attached with screws safe? Sure. But if you go to sell a home, a good home inspector will find that and make it a negotiation item for the potential buyer. That's one reason why its good to know and follow the codes.

I'm currently converting a barn into a home. I have been thus far disappointed by the price/workmanship i have received. Consequently I have done almost everything myself. When people ask me why the answer is always the same. I have enough money to pay for decent quality work. But I'm not finding decent quality work for the money I think is fair. Manual, essentially unskilled labor rates over $100/hr AND the result in so so quality i find unacceptable and cynical. Problem is, my neighbors are paying it, either unaware of the workmanship or having no other option. (sorry to sound like a bitter old man - i am not bitter!)

Yes, there is commentary about code. And, while code absolutely "matters", it isn't integral to my focus and reasons for getting input. It makes absolutely no difference I build a new deck just like the current one or change it substantially. It doesn't matter if I do all, some, or none of the work and hire the rest out. It doesn't matter if I do some of of this year and more in following years. Everything will be built -at least- to code.

Like you, I can also afford to hire someone that will provide quality work. What I am finding is prices that are significantly higher than they should be, little or no ability or willingness to offer flexibility on specific design elements ("I only use composite materials and I only do the picture frame install method" type of stuff) whether I want flexibility in those areas or not, and the absolute most horrendous level of communication possible.

The -ONE- builder that has actually follow up with me started out when I scheduled the estimate visit with "I can give you a general rough idea of cost before I even leave." While he was here, that changed to "I'm going to need a couple of days to pull more info together" (not unreasonable given that the project is likely a bit more involved than he initially expected) but ended up taking over a week to get a basic, rough cost. From there, I am now TWO MORE WEEKS with zero additional info and only two more "it will take a couple of days" comments for finalizing pricing.

I quickly getting to the point where I very well may just strip the project down to pieces / stages and end up doing a fair amount of the work myself because I can't get anyone that's able to do a high quality job to actually show up with a plan.

 

[jar944]

Yep... lots of changes. Current forms under the existing deck are likely fine for that portion, but the new section with the roof overhead will require larger footings. Current deck actually sits atop 4" square steel posts that I would love to replicate, but it isn't really feasible and moving to 6" posts is already being discussed.

I would assume the current foundation pads are not code compliant. They might be but based on a mid 2000s build date I would not expect them to be. Not a huge loss, but something to be aware of. The steel posts would likely require a engineering stamp to pass as well.

Like you, I can also afford to hire someone that will provide quality work. What I am finding is prices that are significantly higher than they should be, little or no ability or willingness to offer flexibility on specific design elements ("I only use composite materials and I only do the picture frame install method" type of stuff) whether I want flexibility in those areas or not, and the absolute most horrendous level of communication possible.

I quickly getting to the point where I very well may just strip the project down to pieces / stages and end up doing a fair amount of the work myself because I can't get anyone that's able to do a high quality job to actually show up with a plan.

Welcome to the new normal. I was going to hire out my deck build, but ended up building it myself for most of the reasons you have encountered.

 

[meburdick]

I would assume the current foundation pads are not code compliant. They might be but based on a mid 2000s build date I would not expect them to be. Not a huge loss, but something to be aware of. The steel posts would likely require a engineering stamp to pass as well.




Welcome to the new normal. I was going to hire out my deck build, but ended up building it myself for most of the reasons you have encountered.

If you're referring to the forms that the steel posts are on, the builder has called those out as questionable but not certain as of yet. The posts are not likely to be considered for future already as having new ones made to match these for the additional points of support just wouldn't be cost-effective in the grand scheme.

I've already passed on outlandish prices quote I got to install two ceiling fans (labor only - I am literally supplying 100% of the materials and ONLY wanted the wiring run) of $1800 and did the work myself and $8000 to repaint the interior of the house. Biggest reason I wanted to hire out the fans was because the attic is just so hot in July (when we bought the house)... lol

Turned out that passing on the painting was only partially due to price... The rest was due to not having color choices ready for most rooms. To date, we've only painted three of the eight rooms. The remaining two bedrooms are ready for paint with one still needing a color to be chosen. The dining room will get repainted after the deck project since tearing out half of one wall is part of the deck project...

If the current builder ever calls back with pricing updates, we're almost certainly going to drop the install of the screening from the project since that's a reasonably straight-forward DIY that I'm happy to do for a materials cost of a couple thousand dollars. We would redirect that part of the budget to cover the purchase and install of the new door from the dining room.

 

[AEAdam]

It feels to me as though the estimates are really "get rich quick" schemes for guys with no intentions of learning their trade or staying in the business. Its one ridiculous estimate that gets them a boat, or a nest egg for a cannabis business or plane ticket to Jamaica....

One tradesmen told me "Some guys ask too much, then they don't get jobs, so they need to ask more to make up for lost wages" "We bid low and are always busy". And I thought, did this guy learn this in Wharton business school? How smart is that!

Oh, you'll love this one. One tradesmen told me it didn't matter if I had material (Hardie siding) already on site or not. He would still bill me as if he purchased the material and marked it up (minus the cost of the material). And i thought, that's cynical as hell. Those guys get contractor discounts, then mark up their materials to at least retail for the trouble of ordering, delivery etc. If its there, that material requires nothing from them. You can't just price out my material then add 15% and add that to my bill. I was flabbergasted the guy had the chutzpah to even tell me that. But you know how the Amish are. Honest to a fault.

 

[meburdick]

It feels to me as though the estimates are really "get rich quick" schemes for guys with no intentions of learning their trade or staying in the business. Its one ridiculous estimate that gets them a boat, or a nest egg for a cannabis business or plane ticket to Jamaica....

One tradesmen told me "Some guys ask too much, then they don't get jobs, so they need to ask more to make up for lost wages" "We bid low and are always busy". And I thought, did this guy learn this in Wharton business school? How smart is that!

Oh, you'll love this one. One tradesmen told me it didn't matter if I had material (Hardie siding) already on site or not. He would still bill me as if he purchased the material and marked it up (minus the cost of the material). And i thought, that's cynical as hell. Those guys get contractor discounts, then mark up their materials to at least retail for the trouble of ordering, delivery etc. If its there, that material requires nothing from them. You can't just price out my material then add 15% and add that to my bill. I was flabbergasted the guy had teh balls to even tell me that. But you know how the Amish are. Honest to a fault.

There is clearly an awful lot "screw you" pricing being handed out. They're bidding jobs way too high on purpose because they don't want them, but if you agree to their stupid price, they're happy to screw you and do the job.

I can appreciate a perspective of "If I didn't spec and order the materials, I won't honor any warranty on it" to at least a certain extent. I have a private mechanic that will tell me where to buy parts from and he will install them, but he always caveats to say "I can back my work, but I can't back the materials... so, consider that when you're looking at the total cost of the job." I can always opt to have him order the parts, too. He's done enough work for me over the years, and in some cases I have had to lightly twist his arm to do a job because he actually didn't see the problem in the beginning, that he has enough trust in me about what jobs I ask him to do that he's ok with me sourcing parts.

 

[Junkman]

I am also in Connecticut, and I need to do a new deck. I am waiting for the frost to get out of the ground, because the town told me that the piers need to be 4' below the surface and have a foot on the sauna tube. I just hope that I don't run into one of the boulders that lurk just below the surface. I have had some come up underneath my asphalt, and when the contractor cut the pavement to dig them out, they were so huge that we had to bring in an excavator to lift them out. That was 10 years ago, and now I have a whole new crop that needs to be removed. At last count, they number about 19 or 20.
What town are you located in?

 

[jar944]

the town told me that the piers need to be 4' below the surface and have a foot on the sauna tube.

Needs to be below frost line and the foundation pad needs to be sized to the deck.

Ignore the depth (only 24" here in VA) but the footing sizing is correct per the span tables.

 

[gahrajmahal]

A lot of GJ’ers chimed in when I was replacing my deck years ago (Thanks!) so I will let you know my experience here in Cincinnati. We had weeks in the single digits this winter and will have a week or two making it to 100 this summer I suppose. Since building my own deck and porch I have also completed two others. Both with Trex style decking while I went with pressure treated and stained boards. My front porch is now 15+ years old and has had two staining sessions besides the original. It is east facing. The deck, 30 ft. Long is elevated and is south facing. At 10 years old I built it with sealed joist tops and stainless screws. It has had one staining since original.

Both will get sanded this year with an 8” palm sander, then restrained with solid body stain. Two coats. Each will probably take me a week to do and two to four gallons of stain each.

The pressure treated decking has held up very satisfactorily. The two decks I build with the Trex style decking have needed no maintenance at all. One is on the north side of their house and is usually deep green with moss by the end of the summer, but they don’t seem to mind.

My one installation suggestion is to use 1/4” spacer between boards even though the manufacturer and code will not require it. I get too many leaves and twigs which would get stuck in the gaps if I didn’t have the extra gap.