Deckel FP1 Dual Dial - VFD Conversion

[Slowboat]

One of the projects that has been on the backburner for the last 10 years is getting my Deckel FP1 Dual Dial milling machine up and running. I bought it 10 years ago, built a mobile base, and then shortly after got a smaller Rockwell Mill that I have been using.

Last Saturday in a fit of garage cleaning rage I decided to sell the Deckel for $925 and move it along quickly. I have already sold a Seneca Falls lathe, my Atlas 7b Shaper, a spare 454 that I was going to warm up, and a bunch of other lumber and assorted junk. As part of getting ready to sell, I went through and cleaned it up and checked out the whole thing, and realized the project wasn't that huge.

Fast forward to Sunday morning, and I had clearly broken Facebook marketplace. A million messages, including the standard, it isn't worth **** messages. I decided to keep the machine and get it running, as it was my dream milling machine...small, heavy duty, and very cool. Funny story - two of the guys who tried to low ball me at the $925 price offered $1500 when I said it wasn't for sale...If someone had come with cash Saturday afternoon it would be gone...

I'm presently painting the machine (it was horrible). I also ordered the special "Kluber" grease for the spindle needle bearings and will redo those. I have the right way oil and gear oil to refill the machine.

I don't have room and I believe the original control box is crapped out, and I want to switch to a VFD for simplicity. It has I believe (please help me out) a 3-Phase, 2 speed, 60hz, 220v Siemens motor. From the motor label, I believe that I will run it using a VFD wired to the high-speed wiring at 60hz, and lower the frequency down to 30hz for the low speed. It is rated for 1.6kw in high speed, and 1.0 kw low speed. Speeds are 860 & 1720. I really don't think I will ever need to run faster than the factory Deckle speeds, but I guess I could if needed.

I'm thinking I will use a Teco/Westinghouse:
Model #: L510-203-H1-U
230 Volts 1 Phase Input, 230 Volts 3 Phase Output

The Deckel only has 3 buttons: Start Speed 1, Stop, Start Speed 2. I'm assuming I can wire these 3 control buttons into the VFD.

Can folks take a look at my plan and review? This will be my first VFD wiring project, and I want to be sure I do the right stuff.

 

[Slowboat]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I want the high speed wiring (hohe drehzahl, or "fast RPM").

U on VFD to R, wired to Ub on motor
V on VFD to S, wired to Vb on Motor
W on VFD to T, wired to Wb on Motor

Ua, Va, Wa (the lower contacts on motor) all Jumper'd together.

https://dealerselectric.com/images/Products/teco/L510instructionmanual.pdf

 

[paulsomlo]

I'm envious - I passed up an FP1 several years ago.

I just wired up the same VFD on my new lathe a month ago - does the Deckel have momentary pushbuttons, or maintained and are there any electrics associated with the motor, like contactors and such?

 

[catalytic]

That's a dream mill for a job shop. The fact that you have a nice 3-axis DRO on it means it's also probably a dream to use.

From the VFD to the 3phase motor's 3 wires there should be no interruptions/switches. Looks like you got that right. The wires don't matter -- just wire it and see which way it runs. If it runs clockwise but you want counterclockwise, then swap any 2 wires. 3 phase is nice and simple this way.

I personally would not set the VFD to do powered slowdown (braking) on this machine. The reason is that if you select 5sec powered slowdown, then it will force the spindle to try to turn for the full 5 seconds it's supposed to be slowing down. If your finger is stuck in it or it's jammed, that can be 5 very long seconds.

I would also personally have the DRO on a separate circuit (plug it in to the wall separately), just to keep things simple and not mess with your VFD. Yes you can put it all together, but both DRO and VFD electronics can be sensitive, and separate = less likely to mess with each other.

Please post more pics of your restoration. What vise are you setting up? You have plenty of room for a Kurt 6" on that huge Deckel table.

 

[Slowboat]

I'm envious - I passed up an FP1 several years ago.

I just wired up the same VFD on my new lathe a month ago - does the Deckel have momentary pushbuttons, or maintained and are there any electrics associated with the motor, like contactors and such?

I'm trying to figure all this out, and I'm definitely out over my skis on this project from a wiring standpoint. I will test them once the paint is dry and the tape is off, but I assumed the buttons were all momentary.

Would a 3 phase motor like this have a start capacitor?

I know the typical Deckel cabinet has all kinds of electrical fun inside, but I was hoping to trash all of it.

 

[Slowboat]

That's a dream mill for a job shop. The fact that you have a nice 3-axis DRO on it means it's also probably a dream to use.

From the VFD to the 3phase motor's 3 wires there should be no interruptions/switches. Looks like you got that right. The wires don't matter -- just wire it and see which way it runs. If it runs clockwise but you want counterclockwise, then swap any 2 wires. 3 phase is nice and simple this way.

I personally would not set the VFD to do powered slowdown (braking) on this machine. The reason is that if you select 5sec powered slowdown, then it will force the spindle to try to turn for the full 5 seconds it's supposed to be slowing down. If your finger is stuck in it or it's jammed, that can be 5 very long seconds.

I would also personally have the DRO on a separate circuit (plug it in to the wall separately), just to keep things simple and not mess with your VFD. Yes you can put it all together, but both DRO and VFD electronics can be sensitive, and separate = less likely to mess with each other.

Please post more pics of your restoration. What vise are you setting up? You have plenty of room for a Kurt 6" on that huge Deckel table.

Yes, the DRO was nicely installed as well, which is a big bonus! Thanks for the thoughts on powered slowdown. That makes a ton of sense. I will probably keep the DRO separate on 110, and the VFD plugged into 220. I don't want to feed **** voltage to the DRO.

I currently have an Eron "Lock Tight" 6" vise that is decent. There is a seemingly nice Kurt an hour away for $225. The goal is get the machine dialed in and see how good/bad it really is. Most of the ways look pretty good, so fingers crossed. It certainly isn't a new machine, and it was well used in a previous life. I have enough tooling to get started, and plan on ordering the adapters so I can use off the shelf SK40 tooling.

I'm disconnecting the internal coolant pump (chain drive off the main drive), as I won't be running coolant consistently (garage that freezes.).

 

[bpwoodworking]

3ph motors don’t have start or run capacitors.

 

[Slowboat]

3ph motors don’t have start or run capacitors.

Thank you! That is what I thought, but like I said - I'm trying to figure all this out!

 

[LopezBart]

For long term use, I'd avoid using the buttons & pot on the VFD; they eventually get worn out.
I converted my 2 speed 5HP YMZ 15x40 lathe w/ a VFD; the original contactors and speed selection switch had released too much of their magic smoke and I got a good deal on the machine. I removed all the contactors (used one to control power to the VFD w/ a toggle switch) wiring, and switches; I then wired the VFD directly to the motor and (with shielded wire) the microswitches in the brake pedal and start lever. I had to set some parameters to match the wiring logic. I also added a 10 V meter that I use to display either RPM or load, and the same box that holds the meter has the speed control pot, and has a magnet that holds in on the lathe. This means the speed control is right at hand; the brake is of course the stop, and the lever "clutch" starts in either forward or reverse.

Your setup will work very nicely.

 

[tjansson]

I saw your ad up and saved it. It was a screaming deal, but I came to terms that it wasn't the right time for me to buy a mill!. Good luck with the VFD conversion!