Dedicated, not retrofit, LED strips

[muddyh2o]

New guy to the forum, but a long time lurker. This is really a great resource and seemingly a nice community!

I'm wiring up a 32x32x12 garage with a workshop space on one side and two 1.5 deep car bays (for motorcycles and ATVs at the end of each).

In the workshop space, I'm going to wire in 10ish WAC 4" Lotos on a dimmable circuit.

In each car bay I'd like to install LED "strip" fixtures like the RAB STRP440-835U. Pre-LED, I would imagine two rows of fluorescent fixtures running the length of each bay. I've seen a lot of LED retrofits into old fluorescent housings, like the well-recommended Primelights Stingray in the The Best Light Fixture Ever! thread. It just feels like for new construction, there must be something better.

Most of what I'm finding are retrofits related to old fluorescent design. Are there any great strip lights built from the ground up as LED strip lights for shop situations? The RABs feel a bit like that but I don't know this market well enough.

I considered buying LED light strips and building one, but I suspect the factory built stuff is going to be much better.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

[cybrdyke]

On the left is the dominant LED strip design in the industry. On the right is the dominant surface wrap design. You can find these from dozens of manufacturers. There are lots of variations, like the RAB, but these are the main way that most are built today. The strips can be butted together for long runs. (above are from Eiko)
You can also use the cheezy mini strips that link together with short cords, but in new construction, they scream "I bought the cheapest POS that I could find!"
Good luck,
CD

 

[muddyh2o]

Haha. Thank you @cybrdyke !
What products are those specifically? --edit, I found the EIKO products. Sorry -- In searching around after my original post, I found some from Barrina but I'm not sure if they're any good or if they scream that I bought the cheapest POS that I could find!

 

[Knight511]

The Barrina lights **** together with small connectors. You will find some people that will be light snobs about them, but if you don't need CRI higher than 80 (honestly, most DIYers do not at all need it), they work great. I have 19 of the 8' Barrina strips in my 30x30 with 14' walls. They may burn out faster than other lights, but the ROI on the other set ups was ridiculously high. Nobody is going to walk into my shop and snub their nose because I didn't spent a couple $Ks on lighting.

I didn't use the "Best Light fixtures Ever" because I wanted single width tubes with the light output of a double. If my shop were smaller or had shorter ceilings, I would probably have gone that route. The Barrina LEDs just about disappear since they are installed on silver steal tube members.

 

[muddyh2o]

Thanks @Knight511. That's great to hear. These will be drilled into the rafters, so I'm not worried about the attachment clips which seem to be the source of a bunch of complaints on Amazon. If you don't use the **** connectors, is there an easy way to interconnect them with some spacing between them? I would like to have rows of 3 with a few feet of space between them.

Again, thank you!

 

[cybrdyke]

I just got back from a buddie's shop. He put in new lights and used the Barrina clear lensed strips. It looked like complete ****, the LED dots were annoying and they stay in your brain for a long time. Also the little cords dangling between the strips look like a total hack job. Plus, they're junk.
CD

 

[PoorUB]

I have a friend that used clear lens LEDs. I don't like them at all, too much glare. No matter which ones I would buy I would recommend a frosted wrap lens.

 

[Knight511]

Thanks @Knight511. That's great to hear. These will be drilled into the rafters, so I'm not worried about the attachment clips which seem to be the source of a bunch of complaints on Amazon. If you don't use the **** connectors, is there an easy way to interconnect them with some spacing between them? I would like to have rows of 3 with a few feet of space between them.

Again, thank you!

They come with 4' cord to use between them.

As for glare or seeing the dots, stop staring at the lights; it seems silly to complain about "seeing dots" since that means you are staring at the light fixtures. As for them being "junk," I already warned there would be light snobs which offer opinions with little or no empirical evidence. The cords between the lights need to be held in place cleanly or they will look "bad," but that is a criticism of the install job, not the lights themselves.

I didn't use those cords though since I hardwired them into 4" boxes, so only a minimal amount of the white cord is exposed at all. My walls are 14' high, so the lights are mounted ~15' up. There is no glare at the work surface level, and the amount of light produced is quite nice.

If you want to pay more for lights, spend money to buy higher CRI lights instead of generic >80 lights. If you have a limited budget and don't need 90+ CRI, don't hesitate to buy the Barrina. Each 8' strip costs $21 where as the equivalent output using the sticky is $77.56; this means my shop lighting would have cost me $1475 instead of $400. Spend time reading through the stickie post about lights, there is a wealth of info up there then make your decision based on empirical evidence. In the end, you will be happy having lots of light regardless of which brand is hanging over your head... you probably won't think about them again once they are installed.

 

[jmiller_2308]

If you want modern design why don't you look at the flat panel leds? I have seen lengths ranging from 1' to 4' and widths ranging from 6" to 2'. It seems that a row of 6"x4' flat panels would be pretty consistent with the layout you mentioned.

The flat panels support dimming, are closer to the ceiling so you are less likely to hit them, often come with configurable color and lumen options and do not have the "dot" issue.

These weren't far enough along when I built my mechanics shop so I'm stuck with retrofit fluorescent in there for now but I redid the wood shop a few years ago and put in 2'x2' LED troffer lights and I really like them.

 

[muddyh2o]

thanks @jmiller_2308 . Is there a flat panel brand or model you recommend or that you wish you had installed?

 

[muddyh2o]

The interior perimeter of the garage will be lit with WAS Loco 4" dimmables with 90+ CRI and some manual color adjustment. That should cover my workspaces with high quality lighting.

I ordered T8 8 footers in 5000k, clear lenses and T5 4 footers in 4000k with frosted lenses. I'm almost positive that I will return the 8 footers. These will each run for 24 feet following the depth of each parking bay, set in two feet from the sides of the garage doors.

If I can find a suitable flat panel, I may change the plan and go with those. Time for me to start googling

This is not definitive (it's missing a lot of the cabling detail, etc) but shows roughly what we're thinking about. Doors are not glass, they'll be solid with small windows on the top row.

 

[BillK]

I will give you something else to think about that influenced my decision to stick with old 8' fixtures and just retrofit them to led tubes.

5 years from now when one of the fixtures you buy decides to fail will you be able to buy an exact replacement ? I dont know about you but if I had ten fixtures and all of a sudden I had to replace one I would want it to look the same as the others.

With replaceable tubes I feel pretty sure that I will be able to buy a couple of new tubes as needed and everything will still look the same. Plus all of my fixtures are run with emt so it would be pretty difficult to replace just one. Especially if the replacement isnt exactly the same.

Just something to think about

 

[Fasthotrod]

I didn't use those cords though since I hardwired them into 4" boxes, so only a minimal amount of the white cord is exposed at all. My walls are 14' high, so the lights are mounted ~15' up. There is no glare at the work surface level, and the amount of light produced is quite nice.

I used a different brand of light, but they sound similar to yours. 8' LED strips, ordered in bulk to get the best price. (I got two cases of 25, used 30, kept some spares, and sold some to a couple of friends.)

I didn't want to dump a lot of cash on lighting when I was building the shop. I figured that I'd go cheap for now, then recover from all of the spending and go with better lighting. I have 14' side walls and an open span 4/12 pitch. The peak is about 21' if memory serves. I had to rent a man lift to get them hung, and like you I installed boxes to make the connections vs. having a long cord hanging out there.

Here we are, three years or so later, and they are still going strong. I only had two go bad (both were flickering on a 4' section of LED's) but the manufacturer stepped up and sent me replacements for free.

People can say what they want, and are certainly entitled to their opinions... no question about that. But for me, the price I paid for the lights, and the lighting I've got in the shop, has been more than worth it.



Measured the lighting with a free phone app... no idea if it's even close, but it's really nice and bright in there.



Mark

 

[jmiller_2308]

thanks @jmiller_2308 . Is there a flat panel brand or model you recommend or that you wish you had installed?

I was unable to find who I ordered my 2'x2' flat panels from and I really don't have too much experience with the various brands. What I do know is that the flat panels have come a long way in the past 5 years in looks, reliability, and cost reduction and I suspect anything from a well known vendor would be good; just avoid the cheap chinese knock offs ala alibaba,.

I would also consider BillK's advice about the possibility of fixture failure and replace ability in the future. I believe the standard grid size panels of 2x2 and 2x4 will be around for a very long time and that even if you couldn't find the exact replacement panel in the future you should be able to find an acceptable substitute. I'm not sure I would be as confident about the odd sizes like 6"x4' but if you like an odd size I would still seriously consider it if you value looks higher than cost.

As my work spaces mature I've moved aesthetics higher on my priority list when buying fixtures. That means that I was willing to do what I consider an upgrade to the 2x2 flat panel in the redone wood shop area. I expect that if the tubes in the tube fixtures in my mechanics shop start to fail that I'll replace all of them with flat panels rather than spend slightly less to just replace the LED bulbs in those fixtures.

 

[cybrdyke]

As for glare or seeing the dots, stop staring at the lights; it seems silly to complain about "seeing dots" since that means you are staring at the light fixtures. As for them being "junk," I already warned there would be light snobs which offer opinions with little or no empirical evidence. The cords between the lights need to be held in place cleanly or they will look "bad," but that is a criticism of the install job, not the lights themselves.

No one is "staring" at the lights. They're in your field of view when you enter the space. They're extremely distracting and the latent diode "dots" can also be seen periphically. People complain and you just hand-wave it away and blame the victim. Your solution is to keep your eyes on the floor? As for "lighting snobs", why would you name-call people who are lighting pros and volunteer some time on the internet answering people's questions? If everyone just wanted to buy the cheapest **** they could find, they wouldn't need to come here to ask questions.
CD

 

[BillK]

No one is "staring" at the lights. They're in your field of view when you enter the space. They're extremely distracting and the latent diode "dots" can also be seen peripherally.

This is absolutely true. The guys in the warehouse next to me have those types of lights and it was a big influence in my choice when I upgraded mine.

 

[pbon]

I have 30 of the ones on the left in post 2 above. The lens is not clear so you don’t see any dots if you look up. They work great. I have a few butted together but most spaced apart. I think paid around $45 each a few years ago. Not sure what they cost now. Cost also varies depending on manufacturer. I would have to look up mine.

 

[Knight511]

No one is "staring" at the lights. They're in your field of view when you enter the space. They're extremely distracting and the latent diode "dots" can also be seen periphically. People complain and you just hand-wave it away and blame the victim. Your solution is to keep your eyes on the floor? As for "lighting snobs", why would you name-call people who are lighting pros and volunteer some time on the internet answering people's questions? If everyone just wanted to buy the cheapest **** they could find, they wouldn't need to come here to ask questions.
CD

You offered no professional advice on the lights; just your single experience based on a single, evidently less than great, install. Your advice was your opinion just like mine.

Lighting snobs. I'll stand behind that. Those are the folks that have a single opinion about lights against which all others are wrong. There is little to no input about quality of light output only "fear" based on a brand label.

Look, they also sell frosted tubes: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S2VD6QB/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Amazon.com : barrina frosted

So you too can have a dot free experience. ;-)

 

[PoorUB]

They come with 4' cord to use between them.

As for glare or seeing the dots, stop staring at the lights; it seems silly to complain about "seeing dots" since that means you are staring at the light fixtures. As for them being "junk," I already warned there would be light snobs which offer opinions with little or no empirical evidence. The cords between the lights need to be held in place cleanly or they will look "bad," but that is a criticism of the install job, not the lights themselves.

Your lights are 15 feet up, how about the guys with a 8 foot ceiling? I can understand if you can mount them up high you probably don't notice the "dots", but mounted to an 8 foot ceiling you can see the light fixtures in you line of sight all the time. My buddy's garage is like this, 8 foot ceiling and the lighting is very harsh. In your face all the time. I suppose one can get used to it, but you shouldn't have too.

And before you must my chops on being a lighting snob I am considering buying some low priced LEDS for my shop, but they will have a frosted lens cover. Even my 4 foot T12 fixtures I have in my shop right now have wrap lenses. I like the defused lighting.

 

[Knight511]

Your lights are 15 feet up, how about the guys with a 8 foot ceiling? I can understand if you can mount them up high you probably don't notice the "dots", but mounted to an 8 foot ceiling you can see the light fixtures in you line of sight all the time. My buddy's garage is like this, 8 foot ceiling and the lighting is very harsh. In your face all the time. I suppose one can get used to it, but you shouldn't have too.

And before you must my chops on being a lighting snob I am considering buying some low priced LEDS for my shop, but they will have a frosted lens cover. Even my 4 foot T12 fixtures I have in my shop right now have wrap lenses. I like the defused lighting.

I was clear in my post that my walls are 14' tall and the lights above those (even posted a pic). The OP has 12' ceilings, so 8' ceilings are not an issue here. With an 8' ceiling, I would not want this much lighting in anyway. If I had this much lighting at that height, I would want more indirect or diffused lighting, so I would be shopping different lights altogether; something more like the recessed coffers used in offices that aim the lights up into reflectors and diffusors. At the height of my lights, they are diffused and never enter your peripheral vision. I also have my lighting on 4 separate switches to be able to adjust the amount and location of lighting based on task at hand instead of always having 171,000 lumens* of lighting on at all times because I don't want 100% of lighting at all times for all tasks. (*Claimed lumens) Light quality and dispersal speaks more to the issues face in a shop than just a brand or style of light.

I didn't even think about frosted vs non-frosted when I bought my lights because they are so high up. FWIW, the LED strips I have in my garage (8-9' ceiling) are all frosted (and I have way fewer of the strips in there anyway). When I searched for "Barrina frosted" I was happy to find they also offer the frosted variety for lower ceilings (and probably to replace my mom's **** T8 fixtures in her kitchen fake recessed troffer styled light boxes. LoL

In the case of your buddy's shop (lower ceilings), I would NEVER buy maximum output lights and hang them that low (the Barrinas I bought are definitely more of a mid-bay light). I want even lighting with no shadows, so I want lighting from as many directions as possible. In a lower ceiling shop, I would shop for lower output lights (something like the greatest fixture thread would be excellent for if I used the single tube fixtures). Lower output lights would allow me to have MORE sources of light without overwhelming my eyes with brightness. That is why light is measured at the work surface, and there is a point where more is FAR from better.

 

[Knight511]

Screen shot of my shop with everything on using the same app used above.

 

[Ben Secor]

You offered no professional advice on the lights; just your single experience based on a single, evidently less than great, install. Your advice was your opinion just like mine.

Lighting snobs. I'll stand behind that. Those are the folks that have a single opinion about lights against which all others are wrong. There is little to no input about quality of light output only "fear" based on a brand label.

Look, they also sell frosted tubes: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S2VD6QB/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Amazon.com : barrina frosted

So you too can have a dot free experience. ;-)

I know this is an old post, but: Thanks for the info, I purchased $500 worth of Barrina lights on Amazon yesterday. I am building a 25x25x12 steel tube building and the walls and ceiling are wrapped with 1/4 inch foil faced bubble wrap insulation. The inside of the bubble wrap is white. I planned to mount the 100w clear led lights at 10ft facing the ceiling to reflect light in all directions and to avoid the dreaded "Led glare/retina burning affect". The frosted lens 5000k led's will be mounted on the walls about 8ft above the windows in a continuous strip around the inside perimeter of the wall. The 6500k led's will be mounted on the trusses between 9-10 ft. I went with 5000k because it seems the 6500k is going to be too blue for comfort. I have seen reviews on amazon that show how blue the 65k light is and it seems so sterile. I added the few 6500k lights to give a little daylight effect. I agree that some people tend to be rigid in their opinion of what lighting appliance works best but I prefer not to spend $100 for a 4-foot shop light...my opinion. The Prices on amazon for Barrina lights vary significantly but I searched for about two hours and came up with these prices:

12-pack LED Shop Light 8FT, 100W 15,000lm 5000K about $21.50ea​

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09PQNTK46/?tag=atomicindus08-20

2, 8-pack LED 4FT, 20W 2200lm, 5000K about $7.50ea​

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PG3RLH7/?tag=atomicindus08-20

12-pack LED 4FT, 20W 2200lm, 6500K about $6.50ea​

(Pack of 12) Barrina LED T5 Integrated Single Fixture, 4FT, 2200lm, 6500K (Super Bright White), 20W, Utility Shop Light, Ceiling and Under Cabinet Light, Corded Electric with Built-in ON/Off Switch - - Amazon.com

(Pack of 12) Barrina LED T5 Integrated Single Fixture, 4FT, 2200lm, 6500K (Super Bright White), 20W, Utility Shop Light, Ceiling and Under Cabinet Light, Corded Electric with Built-in ON/Off Switch - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com