Deep sockets with shallow broach

[HenryAZ]

What's the point of even making them? Yesterday I had to access a hex head plug, part of which and above the hex head was a cylinder of metal that was an integral part of the plug, but smaller diameter than the hex head. Grabbed my new Gearwrench "deep" 5/8" socket, and was pretty surprised when the darn thing would not go down far enough to access the hex head. For this purpose, a shallow socket with an extension would have been the same thing, meaning useless.

I only found one manufacturer's web site that showed the actual depth of the broach. My experience with "deep" sockets is that they are deep. I guess I'll have to be more careful purchasing deep sockets in the future.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I get around this by having Craftsman US 12 point deeps (deep broach) and Snap On 6 point deeps shallow broach.

For the most part I use 6pt and shallow broach, the 12s are for the weird times I need 12 or deep broach.

 

[mike93lx]

If you have a length of bolt sticking out past the nut, it would work fine having a shallow broach.

 

[Tallpilot]

Pros and cons to each design unfortunately but it is something to be aware of.

 

[M6erfan]

I like my "long" shallow broached SK sockets. Great for starting nuts or bolts.

IMO the industry should differentiate between "Long" and "Deep" sockets. 'Long' being extra length with shallow broaching and 'Deep' being extra length with deep broaching.

 

[ZRX61]

Spark plug sockets are like that.

 

[DFB]

Ya shallow broach socket good for driving a nut down over a protruding stud

Like it was said Craftsman deeps have always been a full broach socket

 

[mr.lemons]

IMO the industry should differentiate between "Long" and "Deep" sockets. .

Agreed, would be helpful.

 

[2oolhound]

There are several earlier posts on this. One of them has a list showing which brands are deep/shallow broach.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Pros and cons to each design unfortunately but it is something to be aware of.

Maybe not too unfortunate for those who do allot of wrenching on a variety of machines. It give us a solid, justifiable reason to own multiple sets of sockets of various brands. I got a chuckle when reading the solutions offered for overcoming this broach height pickle; they sound so familiar to what is found in My toolboxes.

 

[rlitman]

Pros and cons to each design unfortunately but it is something to be aware of.

Yes. The most common need for a deep socket is to turn a nut on a thread. The broaching should be deep enough for the nut, and not much more, or else the nut can slip into the socket and be rather difficult to start (especially when facing up).

Deeper broaching also makes the socket weaker.

 

[Tallpilot]

Maybe not too unfortunate for those who do allot of wrenching on a variety of machines. It give us a solid, justifiable reason to own multiple sets of sockets of various brands. I got a chuckle when reading the solutions offered for overcoming this broach height pickle; they sound so familiar to what is found in My toolboxes.

Very true. My solution is to have shallow broached 6 points and deep broached 12 points. Two birds with one stone.

I do like M6er's long vs deep nomenclature.

It is amazing how many different sockets and wrenches it takes to be able to work on everything.

 

[HenryAZ]

Very true. My solution is to have shallow broached 6 points and deep broached 12 points. Two birds with one stone.

Yes, the most common use is to go down over a bolt to a nut further down. This was my first set of "deep" sockets that were long with a shallow broach, so I was a bit taken back. Luckily, I also have an older Craftsman set, 12 point, that are truly deep. They are 1/2" drive though.

 

[LB-1911]

What's the point of even making them? Yesterday I had to access a hex head plug, part of which and above the hex head was a cylinder of metal that was an integral part of the plug, but smaller diameter than the hex head. Grabbed my new Gearwrench "deep" 5/8" socket, and was pretty surprised when the darn thing would not go down far enough to access the hex head. For this purpose, a shallow socket with an extension would have been the same thing, meaning useless.

I only found one manufacturer's web site that showed the actual depth of the broach. My experience with "deep" sockets is that they are deep. I guess I'll have to be more careful purchasing deep sockets in the future.

Previous threads on the topic with several brands listed as to depth of broach.

Deep Socket Broaching Depth Listed By Brand

best full broach sockets

 

[madmanc]

my snap on 6 point are all shallow broach
my britool thin wall are 12 point full broach and come in usefull for lots of jobs and well worth having even fit bmw plugs .
they dont make them anymore but am sure you could still find the odd ones on the net

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I like my old Craftsman deeps, they are fully broached. I think Wright still makes their deeps like that. In the work tools, the Protos and Grays were either half broached or shallow broached.

 

[joel63]

For some reason, I kept my =v= Craftsman 3/8 dr. deeps when I upgraded my tool set.

I would say they have proven to be the right tool for the situation at the time.

 

[JR 42]

If you have a length of bolt sticking out past the nut, it would work fine having a shallow broach.

Ya shallow broach socket good for driving a nut down over a protruding stud

Like it was said Craftsman deeps have always been a full broach socket

Anyone ever run into a case where this wasn't true? I had it happen a couple times on old IH equipment with a coworker's old SK? shallow broach socket- the hole through the socket was smaller than the bolt diameter, in a basic SAE size, probably a 3/8 bolt because IH. I had to track down a diffferent guy's deep broach socket (probably Cman).

It was a long time ago, and the socket was probably from the 70's, so maybe this isn't an issue any more, but I've avoided shallow broach sockets since then.

 

[ex-x-fire]

Anyone ever run into a case where this wasn't true? I had it happen a couple times on old IH equipment with a coworker's old SK? shallow broach socket- the hole through the socket was smaller than the bolt diameter, in a basic SAE size, probably a 3/8 bolt because IH. I had to track down a diffferent guy's deep broach socket (probably Cman).

It was a long time ago, and the socket was probably from the 70's, so maybe this isn't an issue any more, but I've avoided shallow broach sockets since then.

Yeah,when using snap on 3/8 impact sockets on brake bleeders, they don't go over the ******.

 

[DFB]

Can't say I have any direct recall of a deep drive socket bore being to small for pass thru but I'm sure there are situations where its not uncommon to maybe find an undersized external hex nut on stud, possibly like some electrical post connection


I do acutely still remember how on one of my first factory jobs building power transformers racks on timed assembly line a shallow broach socket would really speed things up driving down nuts with a speed wrench. I also remember how we had just the one deep socket like that between 3 of us builders, was a Williams maybe. We only had old US names in the factory back then like Williams, Blackhawk & Proto so it was highly coveted over the other deep sockets with the full depth broach


I just looked my SK metric set they are all shallow broached sockets hole size in the small 10mm socket has all of an 8mm (5/16") pass thru.

 

[Tallpilot]

I like my old Craftsman deeps, they are fully broached. I think Wright still makes their deeps like that. In the work tools, the Protos and Grays were either half broached or shallow broached.

I have Snap-on, Williams, Blackhawk and SK for US brands. All except Blackhawk are shallow broached. I also have Carlyle (Taiwan) and new style Tekton which are half broached. Gearwrench as mentioned are shallow.

Are the new Icon which basically copy Snap-on shallow broached?

 

[JR 42]

Can't say I have any direct recall of a deep drive socket bore being to small for pass thru but I'm sure there are situations where its not uncommon to maybe find an undersized external hex nut on stud, possibly like some electrical post connection


I do acutely still remember how on one of my first factory jobs building power transformers racks on timed assembly line a shallow broach socket would really speed things up driving down nuts with a speed wrench. I also remember how we had just the one deep socket like that between 3 of us builders, was a Williams maybe. We only had old US names in the factory back then like Williams, Blackhawk & Proto so it was highly coveted over the other deep sockets with the full depth broach


I just looked my SK metric set they are all shallow broached sockets hole size in the small 10mm socket has all of an 8mm (5/16") pass thru.

Yeah, I could see it being an issue on oddball stuff like ex-x-fire's example, but this was a dead simple standard SAE coarse stud and nut, really confused me.

I'm sure there are times a shallow broach is the right choice, I just haven't experienced it yet. I looked in some catalogs and can't find any examples of sockets that would have this problem (if I understood you, the SK socket is fine because a 10mm nut would be on a 6mm stud, so an 8mm clearance broach gives plenty of wiggle room).

 

[Mr_B]

Are the new Icon which basically copy Snap-on shallow broached?

Yes shallow, pretty much design clone of snapon sockets right down to font style .

 

[Tallpilot]

Yes shallow, pretty much design clone of snapon sockets right down to font style .

I guess Snap-on is going to let that go after losing the Daytona jack lawsuit? The stamping is even 'upside down' for drive end up storage on Hansen trays. Does anybody besides Snap-on do that?

 

[setfocus]

I have Snap-on, Williams, Blackhawk and SK for US brands. All except Blackhawk are shallow broached. I also have Carlyle (Taiwan) and new style Tekton which are half broached. Gearwrench as mentioned are shallow.

Are the new Icon which basically copy Snap-on shallow broached?

are the half broached Tektons 12 or 6 point. I need a set of cheap 1/2 drive, deep well, full broached. To clear automotive sensors that have an electrical connector on the end. I was thinking about getting the Tekton chrome 1/2 drive, 12 point, deep wells but if they aren't full broached... need to find something else

I'm sure there are times a shallow broach is the right choice, I just haven't experienced it yet.

when you can't start a nut or bolt by hand because you're hands/fingers don't fit in a tight spot. With deep broach the nut/bolt will slide so far into the socket that it wont start

 

[JR 42]

when you can't start a nut or bolt by hard because you're hands/fingers don't fit in a tight spot. With deep broach the nut/bolt will slide so far into the socket that it wont start

Yep. The same farmers who had the deep sockets drilled into me to start nuts and bolts by hand to prevent crossthreading, and I haven't ever needed use a shallow deep socket myself. I'm not a mechanic or in the trades, just a guy who does basic stuff, so I can stick with that advice (thus far at least). I've read you can stuff... stuff into a deep broach socket to keep the nut near the top, but haven't ever needed to.

Is there a big advantage to a shallow- broach deep socket over a standard socket on an extension? Shallower broach, or ...?

 

[Tallpilot]

are the half broached Tektons 12 or 6 point. I need a set of cheap 1/2 drive, deep well, full broached. To clear automotive sensors that have an electrical connector on the end. I was thinking about getting the Tekton chrome 1/2 drive, 12 point, deep wells but if they aren't full broached... need to find something else



when you can't start a nut or bolt by hard because you're hands/fingers don't fit in a tight spot. With deep broach the nut/bolt will slide so far into the socket that it wont start

I went to look for you. I don’t have a single deep socket 6 or 12 point that’s broached more than halfway down including my VIM extra deep. So you can cross off every brand I mentioned above for your application.

 

[setfocus]

I went to look for you. I don’t have a single deep socket 6 or 12 point that’s broached more than halfway down including my VIM extra deep. So you can cross off every brand I mentioned above for your application.

bummer, thanks for checking

They won't be used much, so I was looking for something cheap but not complete garbage

 

[Wrench97]

bummer, thanks for checking

They won't be used much, so I was looking for something cheap but not complete garbage

The older Craftsman are what I usually find myself using for a full broach.

 

[HenryAZ]

Anyone ever run into a case where this wasn't true?

Yes, and the reason for this thread. The oil filler plug on my new jack has a hex head (16mm) about halfway down (the plug is about 1.5" total length). Above the hex is an open cylinder/reservoir with a hole in the bottom (so the jack can burp excess oil). The cylinder/oil catcher is just barely smaller in diameter than the hex head below it. Once I got it out and found out just how few and small the threads are, I use a wrench, gently.

 

[SeisMec]

... the hole through the socket was smaller than the bolt diameter, in a basic SAE size, probably a 3/8 bolt because IH. I had to track down a diffferent guy's deep broach socket (probably Cman).

It was a long time ago, and the socket was probably from the 70's, so maybe this isn't an issue any more, but I've avoided shallow broach sockets since then.

Bought an SK 3/8 swivel head, shallow & deep sockets in about '75 or '76. The parts store I bought them from warrantied one of the smaller deep sockets (could have been 3/8", might have been 7/16" or 5/16") for that very problem. Had to wait a few days/weeks for replacement. (Someone or some-others had already cleared out his open stock in that size for the same reason.)

 

[SeisMec]

Have you considered pass-through / go-thru. (Various spellings)

Here is an example picture of the cheapest you can buy. (Knew where to find picture. Definitely not a recommendation. Also not saying they're ****.)

Snap On also makes them and there are a wide variety of makers in between.

If you go that route, it's probably a good idea to take a look at the GJ thread Which Pass Thru/Go Through Sockets/Ratchets Swap/Interchange?

I don't yet own any of these. If I made a purchase, I'd want a style with sockets that could be used in a flex-head, ratcheting box wrench.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Use my Snap on deep shallow broach 99% of the time.... If I need full broach I grab my Wrights.

 

[setfocus]

Use my Snap on deep shallow broach 99% of the time.... If I need full broach I grab my Wrights.

interesting... they only make 12 point, chrome, deep well, 1/2" drive Wrights 16mm and up and the 10 pc set is $165 on zoro... 3x more than the tektons... I think my search continues

 

[JR 42]

Yes, and the reason for this thread. The oil filler plug on my new jack has a hex head (16mm) about halfway down (the plug is about 1.5" total length). Above the hex is an open cylinder/reservoir with a hole in the bottom (so the jack can burp excess oil). The cylinder/oil catcher is just barely smaller in diameter than the hex head below it. Once I got it out and found out just how few and small the threads are, I use a wrench, gently.

Right, of course, my question was a bit of thread drift about the diameter of the hole bored through the socket. I'm keeping my old full broach Craftsman deeps- they're the type that would work for your issue. I realized today I've got a shallow broach set of Gearwrench deeps squirreled (racooned! shiny!) away from that AA clearance a while back, going to throw them into the tool roll with the deep deeps and put some use on them and see how it goes.

 

[Wamsutta]

When you need a full depth broach is for something like an oil pressure sensor/switch. Vacuum switches are like that too.

 

[OneDollarSaab]

I took a look at my newer 1/2" Wright deep sockets, and interestingly enough, the 9mm, 10mm, and 11mm all have very shallow broaching, the 12mm through 16mm are broached halfway, and 17mm up to 26mm all have full broaching.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

interesting... they only make 12 point, chrome, deep well, 1/2" drive Wrights 16mm and up and the 10 pc set is $165 on zoro... 3x more than the tektons... I think my search continues

I took a look at my newer 1/2" Wright deep sockets, and interestingly enough, the 9mm, 10mm, and 11mm all have very shallow broaching, the 12mm through 16mm are broached halfway, and 17mm up to 26mm all have full broaching.

Yea, my Wrights are older and I picked them up at a swap meet, so IDK if they changed over the years . They are pricey new.

 

[OneDollarSaab]

They are pricey new.

I was able to get a deal on an "open box" set on eBay for $130, 17pc metric 1/2" drive deep. Doesn't happen every day but there is hope.

 

[Mr_B]

I have taiwan deep sockets with full depth broach .
They under Premier branding and similar design to carlyle besides lower half under knurl is soft satin and above knurl full polish .
Great for any kind of sensor .
I got them just for the deep broach and got 3/8 and 1/2 drive metric and standard, wish got 1/4 and standard lengths as proved good solid sockets and been beat on daily for years .
As full broaching more a euro design thing you find the import sockets that tend be influenced by german tool design likely do full broach.
Some of toptul socket range likely will, last time I looked duralast was .