Delta Rockwell 17-600

[Macrosill]

End result


I picked up a Delta Rockwell 17-600 today for 125 bucks. From what I have read it has the low speed option based on the spindle pulley size. Everything works as it should except the motor. It won't start spinning on its own. The previous owner said he changed the start capacitor but that did not fix it. I suspect he installed the wrong capacitor and the contacts for the start capacitor are corroded. I plan on taking the motor apart to check them. It looks like it has the original motor.









Something does not look right here.




Looks like a broken bolt here.





Jacobs No. 34 Chuck


Why is the spindle so long?. Is it supposed to be like that or is there some kind of adapter on there?.






Should I just give it a good cleaning and run with it or do a complete tear down of the drill press?.






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[Macrosill]

I forgot to add that this is an upgrade for me. I have been using this piece of **** for the last 15 years.


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[GrayFlattop]

Great find!

The spindle is long so you can use Morse taper bits directly (no chuck).

The motor may be miswired

Clean it up and start using it!

 

[tombell572]

Gray is correct on the spindle-it's OK. Many industrial-class d/p's are set up with a spindle using a Morse taper. You can use bits with a Morse shank that will fit directly into the spindle or a Jacob's style chuck as you have with a Morse shank that will fit into the spindle.

You Have aa good heavy duty d/p with the larger production table--bigger than the standard table and better for supporting larger workpieces.

Tom B.

 

[JHuston]

The hook on the end of your table raising rack is supposed to go over that column clamp, too.
-James Huston

 

[Macrosill]

Great find!

The spindle is long so you can use Morse taper bits directly (no chuck).

The motor may be miswired

Clean it up and start using it!

GrayFlattop,
Thanks for the info about the long spindle. I have never heard of that before.

I checked the motor wiring and it follows the nameplate schematic.

Gray is correct on the spindle-it's OK. Many industrial-class d/p's are set up with a spindle using a Morse taper. You can use bits with a Morse shank that will fit directly into the spindle or a Jacob's style chuck as you have with a Morse shank that will fit into the spindle.

You Have aa good heavy duty d/p with the larger production table--bigger than the standard table and better for supporting larger workpieces.

Tom B.

Tom,
Thanks for the info about the long spindle. I never knew that was even an option.

I don't know how heavy duty it is. At this point all I know is that it is HEAVY. LOL

The hook on the end of your table raising rack is supposed to go over that column clamp, too.
-James Huston

James,
Thanks for the info about the table raising rack. I will make sure to get it fitted properly.

 

[Davefr]

At $125 "you ****"!! That's a steal.

The motor should be easy to diagnose. Test both windings, capacitor and centrifical switch. It's possible the start winding is burnt out if the centrifical switch never disengaged the start winding.

If you need a new motor, I'd go 3 phase 1.5 HP and then VFD it.

As a bare minimum you need to rebuild the spindle/quill. There are 4 bearings that will need to be serviced/replaced.

 

[Macrosill]

At $125 "you ****"!! That's a steal.

The motor should be easy to diagnose. Test both windings, capacitor and centrifical switch. It's possible the start winding is burnt out if the centrifical switch never disengaged the start winding.

If you need a new motor, I'd go 3 phase 1.5 HP and then VFD it.

As a bare minimum you need to rebuild the spindle/quill. There are 4 bearings that will need to be serviced/replaced.

Thanks for the compliment Dave. LOL

I checked out the motor a little more. It seems the centrifugal switch is closed. I tried a start capacitor from a 1.5hp 120v motor on the 3/4hp motor on the press and no change. The motor needs at least 1 new bearing so the bearings would need to be replaced. Also someone was already inside to motor and did a repair on the start capacitor leads. The lead that goes to the centrifugal switch was soldered onto the screw. The other capacitor lead that goes to the winding was soldered and heat shrinked onto the winding. These two leads are newer plastic insulated conductors. The original conductors would need to be replaced as well as the insulation is brittle and falling off.

I can only assume that the start windings are burnt out. This would mean I either have to have this motor re-wound or just buy a new motor. I knew this was a possibility when I bought the press.

Once the motor was removed it was evident that I need new bearings in the quill as well. I have started to disassemble the entire machine. I have most of the head disassembled already. The spindle pulley might be a little tough to get off. The upper spindle is still in the head until I can get the pulley off.

 

[Davefr]

I can only assume that the start windings are burnt out. This would mean I either have to have this motor re-wound or just buy a new motor. I knew this was a possibility when I bought the press.

Just disconnect all the wiring to the centrifical switch and capacitor in order to separate and isolate the two windings and ohm them out.

Start windings are unforgiving to high duty cycles. You'll likely find few shops willing to rewind these small motors and if they do, it will likely be way more then a replacement motor. Like I said before, go 3 phase + VFD.

If you need help taking apart the quill/spindle assembly just let us know. I'd suggest you get a head start by spraying that bearing retainer collar nut at the bottom of the quill with penetrant.

 

[Macrosill]

Thanks Dave. I will check the start windings when I get a chance. If I go with a 3ph and VFD I am guessing the motor should be a 3450rpm motor and not a 1750?

I got everything apart except for the post from the base, soaking in penetrant, and the bearings on the spindles. That half moon key in the lower spindle was tricky. Had to buy a 3 jaw puller to get the spindle pulley off.

The greasiest part of the whole thing was the table raising mechanism. I ruined a shirt and pants after I got the table off the post. I never would have thought it was as heavy as it was. Wow.

Not sure how much time I will have the rest of the week but I will update as I progress.

I am guessing the bearings just press off the spindles?

 

[Davefr]

Thanks Dave. I will check the start windings when I get a chance. If I go with a 3ph and VFD I am guessing the motor should be a 3450rpm motor and not a 1750?

I got everything apart except for the post from the base, soaking in penetrant, and the bearings on the spindles. That half moon key in the lower spindle was tricky. Had to buy a 3 jaw puller to get the spindle pulley off.

The greasiest part of the whole thing was the table raising mechanism. I ruined a shirt and pants after I got the table off the post. I never would have thought it was as heavy as it was. Wow.

Not sure how much time I will have the rest of the week but I will update as I progress.

I am guessing the bearings just press off the spindles?

Yes, the bearings are pretty easy to press off.

On mine, I use a 1.5HP 3 phase 1750 RPM motor along with a Teco L510 1HP VFD. (that VFD powers a 1.5 HP motor just fine).

I overdrive the motor to 90Khz on the highest VFD speed setting. That's a 50% overspeed for the motor which is fine since it's a 1750 RPM motor. I wouldn't overdrive a 3450 RPM motor.

That 90 Khz setting gives me a max. spindle speed of 3360 RPM with the belt on the highest speed pulley configuration. Without touching the belt/pulleys I can dial down the VFD to about 250 RPM and still have enough torque that I can't stop the spindle with my hand. (that's why I like to use a 1.5HP motor).

If I need more low end torque and/or an even lower spindle speed I can simply adjust the belt to a lower setting. (I haven't had to yet)

The motor mount on the 17-600 is an oddball bolt pattern. To use a modern NEMA motor you might need to modify the mounting arrangement.

 

[quattro_sinko]

Looks nice, great price. Here's a picture of the post/clamp:

Here's a few of the one I picked up this summer. I think it's similar vintage, likely a little bit later (1973) I did not pay $125 though.

 

[454ragtop]

What's your top secret location? I, or another member may have a motor.

 

[Macrosill]

Yes, the bearings are pretty easy to press off.

On mine, I use a 1.5HP 3 phase 1750 RPM motor along with a Teco L510 1HP VFD. (that VFD powers a 1.5 HP motor just fine).

I overdrive the motor to 90Khz on the highest VFD speed setting. That's a 50% overspeed for the motor which is fine since it's a 1750 RPM motor. I wouldn't overdrive a 3450 RPM motor.

That 90 Khz setting gives me a max. spindle speed of 3360 RPM with the belt on the highest speed pulley configuration. Without touching the belt/pulleys I can dial down the VFD to about 250 RPM and still have enough torque that I can't stop the spindle with my hand. (that's why I like to use a 1.5HP motor).

If I need more low end torque and/or an even lower spindle speed I can simply adjust the belt to a lower setting. (I haven't had to yet)

The motor mount on the 17-600 is an oddball bolt pattern. To use a modern NEMA motor you might need to modify the mounting arrangement.

Thanks once again Dave. This thing is way more than I need but I wanted a floor drill press as I was tired of messing with the little bench top model I had. I drill holes in wood more than I do metal. Except the pas few weeks as I was building my 2x72 belt grinder. And I have never driller a hole larger than 1/2" in anything thicker than 1/4" steel on a drill press. While the 3ph 1.5hp and VFD may be the way to go it is way more than I need. But my unisaw is 3ph 5hp with a vfd and I dont cut anything thicker than 3/4 plywood. LOL

Looks nice, great price. Here's a picture of the post/clamp:

Here's a few of the one I picked up this summer. I think it's similar vintage, likely a little bit later (1973) I did not pay $125 though.

Nice press Quatro. Thanks for the picture of the post/clamp. Much appreciated.

What's your top secret location? I, or another member may have a motor.

454, I guess I should have finished filling out my profile. I am on Long Island, NY. Suffolk County to be a little more precise.


Here she sits as of this evening.

This does not look good but as it is only for the table lift I think it will be ok.

Now I just need to order the 4 bearings, strip some paint and rust, repaint and reassemble. Oh, and figure out what I am going to do for a motor.

 

[OccupantRJ]

As far as getting dirty and messing up clothes, I am retired and hobby restore on something mechanical every day to the week. You should see me most days I come in after doing prep work. I look like a pig that wallowed in dirt and enjoyed it. I have shop clothes, then after they get bad I use them for restoration clothes. I REALLY look like an old bum then. I thought about standing on an exit ramp with a sign to raise more money for projects.

Those are nice drill presses. I used one for 28 years in my shop at work before retiring. I also vote for a 3 phase motor with vfd for the unit. I use the Teco L510 vfd on my machines also.

 

[454ragtop]

Well, if you come north I have some motors. Most all of these use motors with a 3/4" shaft, which is a little bit of an oddball nowadays. I think you'd be fine with a 3/4 or 1 HP motor. They're great drill presses. I may have one of those gears as well, though I think that one will work fine if it is deburred, kind of looks like a pin or something rubbed against it.

 

[Macrosill]

Having some trouble finding the proper bearing numbers to order. I have the parts diagram with the two bearings in the upper spindle listed. Not having any luck finding a definitive cross reference for them. Also the bearings on the lower spindle are not listed in the parts diagram and I do not see any numbers on them.

Does anyone sell the set of 4 all in one place?

edit: The 2 bearings currently installed on the upper spindle have the following numbers on them and am assuming they are not original.
205PP
477505

 

[Macrosill]

I found this on OWWM

http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/ReplacementBearingList.ashx#BH_Drill_Press_10

[Delta 17" Drill Press¶
Lower Spindle (Inside Quill) - 87503 (x2) (Early Production) or 6203 (x2) (Late Production)
Upper Spindle Top Bearing - 487503 includes installed snap ring around OD
Upper Spindle Lower Bearing - 88503


Where does early and late production change?

edit: in comparing the two options above they seem to be dimensionally and load rated the same.

 

[Davefr]

This does not look good but as it is only for the table lift I think it will be ok.

That gear doesn't look like it would be a showstopper, but you might want to see if you can shift it a tad in or out with a thin thrust washer to give it better bite with the unworn part of that gear.

 

[454ragtop]

I responded to your post over on OWWM, but I think yours is considered later production with the switch mounted on the front of the main casting. Davefr's is considered early production, no switch on the front, which is rounded. A big difference on the early models is the head casting has an "arm" or support that goes above the spindle pulley, which I would think affects the bearings used.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Be sure the motor.mounting.plate pivot bracket spot welds are good. Your motor is being held by just 2 of them and they do break. You do want to watch your motor weight, but the early motors were.pretty heavy.

 

[Macrosill]

I responded to your post over on OWWM, but I think yours is considered later production with the switch mounted on the front of the main casting. Davefr's is considered early production, no switch on the front, which is rounded. A big difference on the early models is the head casting has an "arm" or support that goes above the spindle pulley, which I would think affects the bearings used.

Thanks.

I pulled the bearings. There was some old burnt oil between the lower spindle and the spacer between the bearings. It stunk. The two on the lower spindle had the numbers facing each other so I could not see them. Based on them being marked 6203z and the explanation about the earl/late production I should be all set.

Thanks guys.

I will get them ordered right away.

Got everything cleaned up except the base and column. Broke a punch trying to get the outer collar off the table lift crank shaft.

Going to try electrolysis for the rust removal. Then I plan on using a wire wheel to get any loose paint off. After that it's prime, paint and reassemble.

Be sure the motor.mounting.plate pivot bracket spot welds are good. Your motor is being held by just 2 of them and they do break. You do want to watch your motor weight, but the early motors were.pretty heavy.

Thanks for the tip. I will be sure to check them closely.

 

[Macrosill]

Motor works. The centrifugal switch was not closing. I bent it back so it makes contact when the end bell is installed. The motor fired right up! Sweet.

When it rains it pours. Last week I was looking at a Craftsman 100 from 1968. The seller stopped communicating all of a sudden. After a week I found this drill press. Well, the Craftsman seller contacted me today and I am awaiting a date to go pick up the 100. What am I going to do with 2 of these giant things?

 

[454ragtop]

A Craftsman 150 is no where near the drill press a Delta 17 is, 2 completely different classes of machines. Craftsman is homeowner grade, Delta is light industrial.

 

[lafester]

If you keep both, the Craftsman would make a good bench top dp.
Or just clean it up and resell to pay for the Delta.

 

[Macrosill]

My mistake. 100 not 150. And it is a floor model. Still only a 15. LOL

 

[lafester]

I like the 100's better. Older, nicer logo and probably better castings.
I don't like the chrome plated handles as much but that is a minor detail.

 

[tool_scrounge]

A Craftsman 150 is no where near the drill press a Delta 17 is, 2 completely different classes of machines. Craftsman is homeowner grade, Delta is light industrial.

+1 on this, but the 100 is a nice 2nd ops machine. Like I have a countersink in a Delta 11" most of the time. I'd the 100 is in really nice shape I would keep it and buy a used bench top base to match.

 

[ScottsGT]

I'll pay you what you paid for the entire press for just the table lift assembly. I bought one this past fall, a little newer though. No lift and that sucker is heavy!

 

[454ragtop]

I'll pay you what you paid for the entire press for just the table lift assembly. I bought one this past fall, a little newer though. No lift and that sucker is heavy!

Scott, won't work on yours, you have a 2-3/4" column, 17's have a 3-1/2" column.

 

[Macrosill]

How much hydrogen gas is produced during electrolysis?

I was planning on electrolysis for all the parts of the press to eliminate any rust. There is not much, just some surface rust in some spots. But winter has blown in and it is too cold outside now. Can I do it in my attached garage or should I just wire wheel it and some rust type primer?

I am thinking the wire wheel and rusty primer.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Wire wheels, orbital sander, carbide tipped paint scrapers with both straight and round tips, blast cabinet is what I use, in no particular order. They all have their place. I am refurbishing something every day as a hobby.

 

[Davefr]

How much hydrogen gas is produced during electrolysis?

I was planning on electrolysis for all the parts of the press to eliminate any rust. There is not much, just some surface rust in some spots. But winter has blown in and it is too cold outside now. Can I do it in my attached garage or should I just wire wheel it and some rust type primer?

I am thinking the wire wheel and rusty primer.

If you're not in a big hurry you could try the Molasses/Water method.

Buy feed grade Molasses and mix it 1 part to 9 parts water. Throw the parts in a large tote and let them sit for several weeks or months.

It's very effective, cheap, does not harm the metal, and safe to dispose. The trade off is speed.

 

[Macrosill]

Thanks guys. I think I am going to wire wheel any rust spots and any loose paint. Then spot prime any rusty spots with rusty primer. Prime the rest and just paint it. Should be good enough. I am not looking for museum quality here and I do not need to strip it down to complete bare metal.

I ordered the bearings with Lynn from Accurate Bearings earlier today. Including the bearings for the motor.

Now for the motor leads that have the insulation falling off them. Should I rewire it with "motor" grade insulated conductors or just some regular stuff? Does it make that big of a difference?

 

[tool_scrounge]

If you're not in a big hurry you could try the Molasses/Water method.

Buy feed grade Molasses and mix it 1 part to 9 parts water. Throw the parts in a large tote and let them sit for several weeks or months.

It's very effective, cheap, does not harm the metal, and safe to dispose. The trade off is speed.

Molasses also does not usually damage paint. At 60 deg I usually find most things take 3-5 days. But if you are doing multiple parts, keep careful check as they get done at different rates.

For example, this Cushman 6" three jaw chuck was very rusty red when I bought it from a garage sale for $15. Post molasses treatment it is about 99% better.

 

[Macrosill]

Started working on the motor this evening. I wire wheeled the housing and end bells. Then I used a scotch brite pad over the entire surface and any places the wire wheel could not get. I primed all the pieces with a rust reformer primer, after masking and wiping them down with mineral spirits.

Tomorrow I will hit the end bells with gloss black and the main housing with Ace Machinery Gray.

 

[My Old Tools]

Now for the motor leads that have the insulation falling off them. Should I rewire it with "motor" grade insulated conductors or just some regular stuff? Does it make that big of a difference?

Adhesive shrink wrap will make a decent repair. Slide it over the existing wires and shrink it with a heat gun.

 

[Macrosill]

I put the motor back together this morning. Just waiting on the cap cover and electrical connections box to dry. I tested the motor and she runs smooth and quiet.



I did not use the Ace Machinery Gray. I used Rustoleum High Performance Professional Enamel in Dark Machine Gray and Black.

I used some liquid electrical tape on the start winding lead coming off the winding. I did not want to mess with it too much and make the situation worse.
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[Stillgottimefor1]

Looks great man!, now clean off that workbench, such a disgraceful mess! But seriously that is really nice work.


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[6PTsocket]

Thanks for the compliment Dave. LOL

I checked out the motor a little more. It seems the centrifugal switch is closed. I tried a start capacitor from a 1.5hp 120v motor on the 3/4hp motor on the press and no change. The motor needs at least 1 new bearing so the bearings would need to be replaced. Also someone was already inside to motor and did a repair on the start capacitor leads. The lead that goes to the centrifugal switch was soldered onto the screw. The other capacitor lead that goes to the winding was soldered and heat shrinked onto the winding. These two leads are newer plastic insulated conductors. The original conductors would need to be replaced as well as the insulation is brittle and falling off.

I can only assume that the start windings are burnt out. This would mean I either have to have this motor re-wound or just buy a new motor. I knew this was a possibility when I bought the press.

Once the motor was removed it was evident that I need new bearings in the quill as well. I have started to disassemble the entire machine. I have most of the head disassembled already. The spindle pulley might be a little tough to get off. The upper spindle is still in the head until I can get the pulley off.

There is only one start winding. Starting on one side of the AC line is one side of the cap. The other side goes to the centrifugal switch. The other side of the switch goes to the start winding. The other side of the winding goes to the other side of the AC line. It is just the 3 components in series across the AC line. I hope you have a meter. The cheapest DMM will do. Check the closed switch fo continuity. Over the years the contacts burn and stop working. Spread them apart and have a look. From one side of the switch (or either side if it is good) to one side of the AC line you should be able to check the start winding. It should read a few ohms. This all presumes that the motor can be push started and there are no other problems. It will push start even with no cap connected if that is the only problem.

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