Densifier vs sealer vs waterproofer?

[specialk]

Hi all,

I'm having a new house built with a large attached garage/workshop, and have been looking into the most economical way to finish the concrete floor. I'm not necessarily looking for an epoxy finish- my main concern is sealing the concrete so that it resists stains/spots and keeps the dust down. I've been looking at this product-

http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/densifier-and-waterproofer-1-gal-p-117.html

But I'm not clear if it will do the job for me by itself, or if I'll need to use a separate sealer afterwards. I was also hoping to use the same product to seal the outside driveway. If anyone with experience in this could give me some advice/hints/recommendations or share their experiences, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Hi all,

I'm having a new house built with a large attached garage/workshop, and have been looking into the most economical way to finish the concrete floor. I'm not necessarily looking for an epoxy finish- my main concern is sealing the concrete so that it resists stains/spots and keeps the dust down. I've been looking at this product-

http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/densifier-and-waterproofer-1-gal-p-117.html

But I'm not clear if it will do the job for me by itself, or if I'll need to use a separate sealer afterwards. I was also hoping to use the same product to seal the outside driveway. If anyone with experience in this could give me some advice/hints/recommendations or share their experiences, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

Well Special K, I think I should answer as these are my products.

For the garage floor use our HD356VOC Sealer, best product for oil, gas spills, etc... LINK: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/hd356voc-urethane-sealer-1-gal-p-179.html

For the drive outside, I would use our densifier with integral waterproofer HD7939.
Link: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/densifier-and-waterproofer-5-gal-p-118.html

Hope this helps.

 

[specialk]

Hi Scotty,

Thanks for the recommendation- was kinda hoping that you'd reply...

Do I need to use a separate densifier with the HD356?

Also, can I apply these on green concrete?

Thanks!

 

[DonIvey]

I'm curious about this approach also. What would the prep work involve before applying the densifier? Thanks,

Don Ivey
Raleigh, NC

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Hi Scotty,

Thanks for the recommendation- was kinda hoping that you'd reply...

Do I need to use a separate densifier with the HD356?

Also, can I apply these on green concrete?

Thanks!

For the garage, use the HD356 by itself.
Wait 30 days to apply all these products.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I'm curious about this approach also. What would the prep work involve before applying the densifier? Thanks,

Don Ivey
Raleigh, NC

SURFACE PREPARATION: All dirt, oil, dust, foreign contaminants and laitance must be removed to assure a trouble free application. The substrate can be damp prior to application but there should be no standing water or puddles.

PRODUCT APPLICATION: Stir material before using. Apply material to the horizontal surface without thinning brush, mop or spraying equipment. When applying the material, always maintain a wet edge.

 

[MPH]

LegacyIndustrial, I have a few questions about your HD356VOC Sealer. You say in the surface prep that substrate can be damp but this is a solvent base product. In the Limitations it says "*The concrete and joints must be thoroughly dry prior to application". Please explain.

The Tech Sheet on this product says "If substrate is particularly smooth, grinding or etching may be required." My floor has a burned finish with a power trowel. Would I need to etch my floor?

The Tech Sheet also says that "Primer is not required" but then below that in the Limitations it says "*Use a suitable primer". Also on your instruction sheet is say to "Properly prime the substrate". It also says "When using a primer other than those listed on the front of this technical data sheet, apply a test patch before overcoating the primer to determine suitability and compatibility". Please explain.

I also need to know a little more about the temperature during application. On the tech sheet it say "APPLICATION TEMPERATURE:
50-90 degrees F with relative humidity between 60-90%" and the on the instruction sheet it says "Maintain temperatures within the recommended ranges during the application and curing process." So does this refer the temperature of the substrate or the air temperature?

It is mid to upper 40's during the days and mid to lower 30's during the night here in Washington state. So I can heat the garage, and hopefully the floor, to whatever temperature is needed but since this product is a solvent based how bad is the fumes? Would I need to open up the garage doors for ventilation? I could probably do that and keep the substrate at a decent temperature but I might end up having to shut the doors off and on to keep the temperature within the range if the fumes are bad with this product and ventilation is required. Do you have any ideas or suggestions about the temperature during the application and fume mitigation for me?

Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks Mike

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

LegacyIndustrial, I have a few questions about your HD356VOC Sealer. You say in the surface prep that substrate can be damp but this is a solvent base product. In the Limitations it says "*The concrete and joints must be thoroughly dry prior to application". Please explain.

The Tech Sheet on this product says "If substrate is particularly smooth, grinding or etching may be required." My floor has a burned finish with a power trowel. Would I need to etch my floor?

The Tech Sheet also says that "Primer is not required" but then below that in the Limitations it says "*Use a suitable primer". Also on your instruction sheet is say to "Properly prime the substrate". It also says "When using a primer other than those listed on the front of this technical data sheet, apply a test patch before overcoating the primer to determine suitability and compatibility". Please explain.

I also need to know a little more about the temperature during application. On the tech sheet it say "APPLICATION TEMPERATURE:
50-90 degrees F with relative humidity between 60-90%" and the on the instruction sheet it says "Maintain temperatures within the recommended ranges during the application and curing process." So does this refer the temperature of the substrate or the air temperature?

It is mid to upper 40's during the days and mid to lower 30's during the night here in Washington state. So I can heat the garage, and hopefully the floor, to whatever temperature is needed but since this product is a solvent based how bad is the fumes? Would I need to open up the garage doors for ventilation? I could probably do that and keep the substrate at a decent temperature but I might end up having to shut the doors off and on to keep the temperature within the range if the fumes are bad with this product and ventilation is required. Do you have any ideas or suggestions about the temperature during the application and fume mitigation for me?

Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks Mike

Mike, you know us manufacturers, we love to CYA with messages that contradict themselves.

The floor can be damp, no standing water.
If smooth (like a power-troweled floor) you should do a light etch or light grind/sand. There are GREEN etching products on the market that will do the job as well.

This product creates a very thin film thickness. It is not as needy for pores as an epoxy.

Don't put on a slab under 45 degrees (slab temperature).

The smell is considerable, I would wear a NIOSH respirator and crack a window or door for ventilation.

Lastly, here is a link showing the product on the floor.
http://legacyindustrial.blogspot.com/2011/01/concrete-sealer-for-garage-floors.html



Good luck.

 

[MPH]

Thank you for the information Scotty.

I will have to see what I can do about keeping the slab at temperture.

I have a couple more questions if you don't mind. What preperation does it take for repair, future upkeep, and maintenance? How does this product stand up to oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, brake clean, etc?

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Thank you for the information Scotty.

I will have to see what I can do about keeping the slab at temperture.

I have a couple more questions if you don't mind. What preperation does it take for repair, future upkeep, and maintenance? How does this product stand up to oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, brake clean, etc?

Thanks again,
Mike

Mike:
Keep in mind one coat is going to put a 2-3 mil thick coating down. It is a sealer, not a coating, very thin. One coat will give you a nice sheen, (2) coats will give you a glossy look.

Therefore, I doubt you will hurt it. But if you did, you would square the area off, prep it and re-coat. Maintenance is normal cleaning with a mild detergent, water rinse.

The tech sheet shows the following resistance levels:
Gasoline:72 Hour Exposure
MEK (similar to brake clean) : 2 Hour Exposure

These are very good resistance levels.
Urethanes have better resistance to common chemicals found in the garage than epoxies. Most water based epoxies can barely take a one hour exposure to gasoline and no resistance to aggressive solvents.

 

[mpraddict]

Well Special K, I think I should answer as these are my products.

For the garage floor use our HD356VOC Sealer, best product for oil, gas spills, etc... LINK: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/hd356voc-urethane-sealer-1-gal-p-179.html

For the drive outside, I would use our densifier with integral waterproofer HD7939.
Link: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/densifier-and-waterproofer-5-gal-p-118.html

Hope this helps.

Huh....I've been specifying and designing for commercial projects about 20 years now and this is the first time I've heard a recommendation to use a desifier on an exterior slab. We typically densify interior slabs in commercial buildings that will be exposed (you'll see this type of slab treatment on the floors of most of your local home improvement centers).
Does the densifier have any effect on the exterior slab's ability to resist damage from extreme temperature changes? Exterior slabs are typically poured with air entrained concrete.

 

[MPH]

Scotty, thanks for all your help! The information that you have provided me sounds great.

It sounds like this product is what I have been looking for. Sounds like if I wipe things up in a timely manner all will be good. Now all I have to do is try to figure out how to keep the slab warm will coating it and get the ventilation I need.

How do the fumes of this product react to an electric furnace heat source?

So Scotty, the initial coating coverage is 600 - 800 sq ft per gallon, depending on the surface. What coverage can I expect on the second coat?

Thank again for all your help,
Mike

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Scotty, thanks for all your help! The information that you have provided me sounds great.

It sounds like this product is what I have been looking for. Sounds like if I wipe things up in a timely manner all will be good. Now all I have to do is try to figure out how to keep the slab warm will coating it and get the ventilation I need.

How do the fumes of this product react to an electric furnace heat source?

So Scotty, the initial coating coverage is 600 - 800 sq ft per gallon, depending on the surface. What coverage can I expect on the second coat?

Thank again for all your help,
Mike

Mike:

Send me a PM with your e-mail address. I'll send you the MSDS sheet so you are well informed.

Second coat will be in the 800 sq ft. per gallon range.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Huh....I've been specifying and designing for commercial projects about 20 years now and this is the first time I've heard a recommendation to use a desifier on an exterior slab. We typically densify interior slabs in commercial buildings that will be exposed (you'll see this type of slab treatment on the floors of most of your local home improvement centers).
Does the densifier have any effect on the exterior slab's ability to resist damage from extreme temperature changes? Exterior slabs are typically poured with air entrained concrete.

Lithium Densifier by itself will do the following to a slab indoors/outdoors:
Improves resistance to freeze/thaw effects
Improves abrasion resistance and durability
Improves weathering ability
Reduces dusting and helps lengthen the surface life.

With the integral water-proofer you can expect less water absorption which is always beneficial to concrete.

 

[Notch1988]

Is it possible to use a densifier and then a sealer over top of it?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Is it possible to use a densifier and then a sealer over top of it?

Yes, but why?
The sealer will stop the dusting and provide a sacrificial layer.