derusting help

[1930artdeco]

I have an antique brake arching machine that I need to restore so I can use it finally. It has some rust, not bad but it needs to go I can paint it and free it up. I have some ideas like a wire wheel and electrolysis but there are some issues.

First, the bottom piece has two tags that I need to keep and they are riveted on. Or appear to be, maybe they are the type of screw that looks like them.

Second, on the top moveable piece there is a rubber bushing that I cannot get out. The handle I can remove and use on the bench grinder wire wheel.

My question is this: can any of you smart people think of some other way to derust this thing?

 

[Dustin Echoes]

Pics would help, I've taken all kinds of things apart to remove rust and restore. Get some pics, I'll take a look!

 

[BFBOB]

The method I use, soaking in sulphuric acid, will possibly attack the paint on your tags, and the tags themselves if they're not steel. It may also attack the bushing.
Oxalic acid baths like Evaporust are supposed to be safe for paint, rubber and plastics, but I have found it to be very poor at removing any but very light rust, even soaking for days. Also expensive.
Based on what I've read (I have not yet tried it), I think electrolysis has the best chance of working for you, but it still may cause problems if those tags are brass or aluminum. Can you carefully grind off or drill out the rivets?
Wire wheel is at the very bottom of my list because I dislike the scratches and swirl marks it leaves. Heavy applications of Rustoleum Hammered Finish will cover up some.

 

[1930artdeco]

Sorry about the pic. I know I attached it. So here it is again.

 

[sophijo]

One part "feed grade" molasses (Farm supply store, cheap) and nine parts water. Search you tube for examples. I've used it and it works.

 

[PCO6]

Here's a similar thread that may be of some help ...
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172548&page=2

I use a product called B&G Rust Remover in a dip tank I put together (see post #'s 23,28,29 & 33 in the attached thread). It contains phosphoric acid but is pretty easy to use. It will not harm your rubber bushing and, although you didn't say what your tags and rivets are made of, with a bit of monitoring it most likely won't hurt them either.

 

[Oldbear]

I've used the battery charger method. Works well. The instructable has pictures...

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolytic_derusting.htm

and

http://www.instructables.com/id/Electrolytic-Rust-Removal-aka-Magic/

 

[Outlawmws]

Your name plates appear to be attached with the semi screw rivets, so you should be able to pull them. just be careful and you shouldn't damage the tag. I've been using flush cut dykes to get them started. After they are started they come out pretty easily.

Once those are out of the way I'd go with Electrolysis. The E tank almost always removed rust and paint, unless the paint was put on perfectly, and is actually adhering...

I don't like sulfuric its too harsh on the steel/iron and will etch into it. If you insist on an acid, use Phosphoric as it will only eat the rust and not the iron/steel. It's also far less dangerous then sulfuric.

 

[JimInRadfordVA]

Man, that thing is Grrrrrreat!

 

[Wingnut65]

I've been very impressed with soaking rusty parts in vinegar. Let it soak a few hours or overnight, dry it off and the rust just brushes off.

 

[e-tek]

My opinion - from the pics - is that is mostly dirt, oil, shop scum and the like - with a little surface rust mixed in. A wire wheel on the drill would be best to start with. Vinegar or any product like Evaporust is OK on light surface rust like that - especially aftger you've wire wheeled it. Won't harm the rubber either.

 

[Cobble]

I would use a grinder or electric drll and wire brush to remove loose rust, and some surface rust. then use a rust remover... I use a product called OSPHO...it contains phosphoric acid. Here, a gallon costs less than $20, a quart is about $5. brush it on, it converts the rust to a stable compound that acts as a primer. I then would get something like rustoleum iron oxide primer, for heavy rust, and apply it over the "ospho'd" finish. (it may take two coats of OSPHO before priming). last, paint it with a coat of an enamel paint, or two coats of enamel paint would be even better.

 

[caspian65]

There's a product called Evapo-rust, that can be bought around $20/gallon. Works great on items like this.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Vote 2 for Evapo-rust. We pump it into some machines to clean the water passages out.

Capt. Chrysler

 

[Lurker]

If you decide to use phosphoric acid, check an agricultural supply store for MSR (Milkstone Remover). Around here, you can find it at Tractor Supply Co. for $12.99/gal.

 

[PCO6]

Lurker - That's good to know. If it's possible to get it in small quantities, that's about a third of what I pay. B&G Restorations says that what I buy can be reduced with water by up to 50%. I have never tried it though - I use it at full strength.

 

[Lurker]

- If it's possible to get it in small quantities, that's about a third of what I pay...

TSC only sells it by the gallon...
But, looking at the label, I'd guess it has a real long shelf-life.

 

[NHBandit]

One part "feed grade" molasses (Farm supply store, cheap) and nine parts water. Search you tube for examples. I've used it and it works.

Molasses is great for removing rust, won't hurt the paint and is cheap. The downside is that if the tags you want to save are Aluminum it will eat the tags. It's the Phosphoric acid in the molasses that makes it work. The same "secret" ingredient that's in Coca Cola.

 

[1930artdeco]

Where do you get the Evapo Rust? Home Destruction or a place like ACE etc..?

 

[Chuck McB]

I've been using Klean-Strip 1-Gallon Phosphoric Prep and Etch from HD on the roof of my Plymouth and works nicely.

 

[4v shane]

what do you plan to do after de-rusting? leaving it natural raw steel? or painting or coating?? I would say sandblasting could be an option i would just cover the label with duct tape and then proceed with blasting low pressure around label for peace-of-mind then clean the rest of the unit.

 

[Lippyp]

I'd use this stuff http://www.bilthamber.com/corrosion-treatments/deox-gel for stuff that is too big to be soaked (they do a powdered version you mix with water) it works incredibly well, won't hurt rubber or aluminium. Not sure if they export to the USA though. I used it on some very heavily rusted steel shutters that hadn't seen paint since WWII I reckon and I dug a hole in the earth floor of our cellar, lined it with a sheet of plastic and soaked them for 24 hours. They came out looking like they'd been sandblasted.

 

[drfreeze]

Here's a very good read on a post I did on de-rusting with Molasses

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=408074

 

[69lm69gp]

Oxalic acid baths like Evaporust are supposed to be safe for paint

I suspected the the primary ingredient of Evaporust is Oxalic acid and have tried Oxalic acid for rust removal and it works, not quite as well though. I would use is to do the heavy rust removal and Evaporust as a final treatment.
Mainly because Wood Bleach (100% oxalic acid) is about $8 vs. ER at $25)

Do you have something that states Oxalic acid is the active ingredient in Evaporust? I ask because I mentioned using Oxalic acid for rust removal someone discounted the idea saying it would eat the metal and Evaporust was better.

To the OP:

Check the back side of the casting, the rivets that holds on the tag may be in holes that were drilled all the way through so you can use a punch to knock them out from the back.

 

[Outlawmws]

I don't think Oxalic acid is part of Evaporust's formula. If you look up the MSDS on it, it is almost completely inert.

I suspect they isolated whatever the active chelation ingredients are in Molasses or other chelation materials and used that.

Here are some relevant particulars from the MSDS:

Product Hazard: Health: 0 Fire: 0 Toxicity: 0 Reactivity: 0 Special: 0
Hazard Rating: 4 = Deadly 3 = Extreme 2 = Hazardous 1= Slight Hazard 0 = Normal

2. INGREDIENTS
Contains no hazardous components under current OSHA definitions.

6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
Personal Precautions: None needed. Caution floor may be slippery.
Environmental Precautions: None needed; non-toxic, non-hazardous in neat form.
Methods for Cleaning Up: Filter and reuse or dispose directly by flushing area with water into sewer.

7. HANDLING AND STORAGE
Corrosivity: Non-corrosive.
Technical Measures/Precautions: Normal ventilation is adequate.
Safe Handling Advice: Avoid contact with eyes.
Technical Measures/Storage Conditions: Low temperature can cause handling problems. Viscosity of material will increase.
Incompatible Products: No special restrictions on storage with other products.
Packaging Material: No restrictions.

 

[BFBOB]

The only serious derusting method I'v tried is sulphuric (muriatic) acid bath. I got the strongest they had at Home Depot (27%, I think), and it works quite well. Light rust comes off in a very few minutes with a bit of brushing with a stiff nylon brush. Heavy rust might take a day or two. It doesn't attack chrome in my experience, but sometimes chrome that is wrinkled or pitted due to rust under it will come off. Sometimes, unpredictably, it turns the base steel black. I've found that wnen this happens, the steely color is easily restored by lightly wirebrushing by hand. This is an instance when a cheapjunk wire brush is probably better than a really good one: bristles made of softer steel, less likely to scratch.
Evaporust was nearly useless.
Someday I'm going to try electrolysis. Sounds very interesting.

I have used the acid dip only on sockets and wrenches, nothing of mild steel or non-ferrous. If I recall my college chemistry from decades ago, H2SO4 will attack some non-ferrous metals vigorously - zinc especially comes to mind. Too lazy to research it. I did find out by accident it will attack the plastic handle of at least one putty knife - but the blade sure looks nice!

 

[Outlawmws]

The only serious derusting method I'v tried is sulphuric (muriatic) acid bath. I got the strongest they had at Home Depot (27%, I think), and it works quite well. Light rust comes off in a very few minutes with a bit of brushing with a stiff nylon brush. Heavy rust might take a day or two. It doesn't attack chrome in my experience, but sometimes chrome that is wrinkled or pitted due to rust under it will come off. Sometimes, unpredictably, it turns the base steel black. I've found that wnen this happens, the steely color is easily restored by lightly wirebrushing by hand. This is an instance when a cheapjunk wire brush is probably better than a really good one: bristles made of softer steel, less likely to scratch.
Evaporust was nearly useless.
Someday I'm going to try electrolysis. Sounds very interesting.

I have used the acid dip only on sockets and wrenches, nothing of mild steel or non-ferrous. If I recall my college chemistry from decades ago, H2SO4 will attack some non-ferrous metals vigorously - zinc especially comes to mind. Too lazy to research it. I did find out by accident it will attack the plastic handle of at least one putty knife - but the blade sure looks nice!

Muratic acid + Zinc = Zinc Chloride ( a good cleaning acid for soldering brass - Think radiators...), until the conversion of the Muratic is complete. then it's pretty inert to the zinc, but in the mean time its does eat it up.

 

[MScott]

The only serious derusting method I'v tried is sulphuric (muriatic) acid bath.

Actually, muratic acid is another name for hydrocloric acid(HCL.) Sulfuric acid is battery acid (H2SO4)