Design challenge

[DavidR8]

Hey folks, hoping I can lean on your collective expertise.

I have a 23'x18' garage, flat roof with two overhead doors. I do a mix of woodwork and motorcycle restoration/maintenance.

The design challenge is that there's a 6"x6" wooden pillar smack dab in the middle to support the 2x10's that hold up the 2x8 rafters.

My big tool is a Unisaw which is about 50"w x30"d.

Do any of you have a situation like this and if so how do you arrange your tools etc. to deal with the pillar?

I've toyed with the idea of replacing the 2x10's with a steel beam but I can't begin to imagine the cost.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Attaching some pictures will help for everyone to get a better idea of what we are working with.

Are these spanning the longer or shorter dimension ? Depending on how it's built, it may be possible to add some lvls and remove the post completely. This would give you an open space.

 

[DavidR8]

As embarrassing as it will be to reveal my disaster of a garage I will shoot some pictures.


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[GMCGarage]

Hey folks, hoping I can lean on your collective expertise.

I have a 23'x18' garage, flat roof with two overhead doors. I do a mix of woodwork and motorcycle restoration/maintenance.

The design challenge is that there's a 6"x6" wooden pillar smack dab in the middle to support the 2x10's that hold up the 2x8 rafters.

My big tool is a Unisaw which is about 50"w x30"d.

Do any of you have a situation like this and if so how do you arrange your tools etc. to deal with the pillar?

I've toyed with the idea of replacing the 2x10's with a steel beam but I can't begin to imagine the cost.

Do you have an attic? If so, you could slide the beam in the attic and support the rafters.

 

[DavidR8]

Do you have an attic? If so, you could slide the beam in the attic and support the rafters.

Unfortunately it’s a flat roof with no attic space.


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[Perrorojo]

I-beam across the span to replace the post. I had a 24' I beam made so my 24' x 24' could be open is a 16' garage door.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Hey folks, hoping I can lean on your collective expertise.

I have a 23'x18' garage, flat roof with two overhead doors. I do a mix of woodwork and motorcycle restoration/maintenance.

The design challenge is that there's a 6"x6" wooden pillar smack dab in the middle to support the 2x10's that hold up the 2x8 rafters.

My big tool is a Unisaw which is about 50"w x30"d.

Do any of you have a situation like this and if so how do you arrange your tools etc. to deal with the pillar?

I've toyed with the idea of replacing the 2x10's with a steel beam but I can't begin to imagine the cost.

What's the dilemma? You want to put the Unisaw right where the post is?

That's an easy fix- put it someplace else. LOL! No really; I fail to see the dilemma with the information.

 

[juddspaintballs]

I think you'll be surprised that an I-beam isn't as costly as you think. A laminated beam is also an option.

 

[DavidR8]

What's the dilemma? You want to put the Unisaw right where the post is?



That's an easy fix- put it someplace else. LOL! No really; I fail to see the dilemma with the information.

Yes, pretty much that’s the problem I’m trying to work around.

I’m considering placing the saw so the right side of the saw is either against the pillar or against a wall.


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[DavidR8]

Alright here are some pics. Please excuse the mess!








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[K'ledgeBldr]

To me that seems a bit weird-
Most people prefer the extensions on the right- so you'd want the right "open", no barriers.

I'd probably take a long look at how you actually use the saw and what materials- like, is the biggest piece of material typical 4X8 sheet goods? How would an out-feed table work for sheet goods? And if you were to "crosscut" sheet goods- you need 8-10' of clearance on the extension side.

You may have the perfect scenario for a panel saw...

 

[DavidR8]

To me that seems a bit weird-
Most people prefer the extensions on the right- so you'd want the right "open", no barriers.

I'd probably take a long look at how you actually use the saw and what materials- like, is the biggest piece of material typical 4X8 sheet goods? How would an out-feed table work for sheet goods? And if you were to "crosscut" sheet goods- you need 8-10' of clearance on the extension side.

You may have the perfect scenario for a panel saw...

I’m not sure I understand why that’s weird. The rip fence limits how far on the right I can use the saw. The left side is unlimited. That’s why I’d put the right side against the wall or pillar.

And you are right, I am a good candidate for a panel saw.


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[Perrorojo]

What's your interior height? I would replace that wood beam that appears to be spliced together above the post with an I-beam. It looks like you have a post between the garage doors to support it.

 

[MFolks]

It's a "working garage",never be embarrassed about where money is being made....

 

[DavidR8]

What's your interior height? I would replace that wood beam that appears to be spliced together above the post with an I-beam. It looks like you have a post between the garage doors to support it.

Interior height is 96"
Yes a steel beam or LVL would do the trick.

I need to take some accurate measurements to get a sense of the potential space.
The other big space consumer if my motorcycle lift. I'd say it's about 30" wide and 96" long.

 

[DavidR8]

It's a "working garage",never be embarrassed about where money is being made....

Thanks, I think it's a matter of where money is recycled in my case

 

[Jeffh40]

You're not replacing the column without getting an engineer involved, but I'll push you in the right direction.

Get some steel channels, Probably C12x20.7 or heavier and put them on each side of the wood beam. 20' channels minimum centered on the column location. Drill holes through the whole assembly ( 18" o.c. or so, you're engineer will tell you)and put all-thread through the hole to clamp everything together. We call this a pinch beam since the channels are pinching the wood beam.

Either that or shore the whole roof with shoring poles, remove the column and beam and replace the beam with an appropriately sized steel beam.

 

[matt_i]

Without any analysis I feel like the equivalent clear span steel I-beam is going to be a larger depth than the wood, thus cutting into headroom which also appears low.

 

[Falcon67]

I'd get a floor plan mapped in something - even just on graph paper - and learn to love that post LOL.

 

[DavidR8]

You're not replacing the column without getting an engineer involved, but I'll push you in the right direction.

Get some steel channels, Probably C12x20.7 or heavier and put them on each side of the wood beam. 20' channels minimum centered on the column location. Drill holes through the whole assembly ( 18" o.c. or so, you're engineer will tell you)and put all-thread through the hole to clamp everything together. We call this a pinch beam since the channels are pinching the wood beam.

Either that or shore the whole roof with shoring poles, remove the column and beam and replace the beam with an appropriately sized steel beam.

Well that's an interesting idea. Potentially easier than replacing it.
Though I don't know if have the side clearance necessary to fit the channels between the garage door tracks. It might be close though.

 

[DavidR8]

I'd get a floor plan mapped in something - even just on graph paper - and learn to love that post LOL.

Yup, working on it!
(And I suspect that I'm going to learn to love the post.)

 

[DavidR8]

Without any analysis I feel like the equivalent clear span steel I-beam is going to be a larger depth than the wood, thus cutting into headroom which also appears low.

I think you are right. LVL tables are pointing me toward 11 1/2" beams which is 1/2" taller than what I have now.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Put the Unisaw on wheels. Treat it like a drawer. Roll the saw out when you need it, roll it back when you are not using it.
Everything in my shop is on Canadian made casters including my motorcycle lift table. My two lathes are not mobile.
I have reduced the amount of unused stuff in my shop by 50%. Thanks to Craigslist, I picked up an extra $23k. I don't miss anything.
BTW., I bought a few new to me machines, thanks to Craigslist.

 

[DavidR8]

Put the Unisaw on wheels. Treat it like a drawer. Roll the saw out when you need it, roll it back when you are not using it.
Everything in my shop is on Canadian made casters including my motorcycle lift table. My two lathes are not mobile.
I have reduced the amount of unused stuff in my shop by 50%. Thanks to Craigslist, I picked up an extra $23k. I don't miss anything.
BTW., I bought a few new to me machines, thanks to Craigslist.

I have the saw on a mobile base now but I need to build the side extension table to also be mobile.

Where are you in BC?

 

[ddawg16]

I'd get a floor plan mapped in something - even just on graph paper - and learn to love that post LOL.

^^ Yup ^^

I can think of a lot of good things for that post....

About your only other option.....tear it all down and build bigger......that is what I did.

 

[Copymutt]

I’m all in on steel plating the existing beam, both sides, cross bolted, 2 every 12” and 1 centered between those. You don’t need to go the full length, 2/3 would be sufficient. 3/16 to 1/4 plate is stout enough. Then cut, kick out the post.
This is done all the time on dump trucks when the frames crack plates are welded spanning the damage, both sides.
Jim

 

[DavidR8]

I’m all in on steel plating the existing beam, both sides, cross bolted, 2 every 12” and 1 centered between those. You don’t need to go the full length, 2/3 would be sufficient. 3/16 to 1/4 plate is stout enough. Then cut, kick out the post.
This is done all the time on dump trucks when the frames crack plates are welded spanning the damage, both sides.
Jim

I have to say that this is an attractive option.
I don't know if I mentioned that there is no second floor, just a flat roof. We rarely get snow and when we do it's never more than an inch or two. Snow load calc here is 20 psf.

So the 2x8 rafters are holding up roof sheeting and rolled roofing. That's all.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Burnaby.

 

[bad_idea]

This many replies and no one has pointed OP to Jack's garage?! He has a couple post in his and has built the shop around them. He has a very functional small shop where he builds his race car. LOTS of information in his thread. Good read if you haven't seen it yet.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55006&highlight=Jack+olsen

If that were my space, I would sort and organize first. Build some cabinets to hide away some clutter. Put everything on wheels, work benches and tables included. Keep pushing the stuff around until it flows nice. My 30x40 is a clear span, large space. I still have everything on wheels so I can 'rearrange the furniture' based on what type of project I am working on.

For example, all of my carpentry tools are on a 4'x8' rolling work table. When doing automotive work the carpentry table is pushed into one corner by the car. The carpentry table now doubles as an extra work surface for the car. When wood working I roll the carpentry table out into the middle of the center bay so I can walk around all 4 sides. The welding table then gets pushed out and it is an extra work surface for the wood working project. To shift the function of the shop to suit a task only takes a few minutes since everything is mobile.

 

[DavidR8]

This many replies and no one has pointed OP to Jack's garage?! He has a couple post in his and has built the shop around them. He has a very functional small shop where he builds his race car.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55006&highlight=Jack+olsen

LOTS of information in his thread. Good read if you haven't seen it yet.

If that were my space, I would sort and organize first. Build some cabinets to hide away some clutter. Put everything on wheels, work benches and tables included. Keep pushing the stuff around until it flows nice. My 30x40 is a clear span, large space. I still have everything on wheels so I can 'rearrange the furniture' based on what type of project I am working on.

I've watched that video several times.

I plan on clearing out the clutter as soon as I can.

 

[bad_idea]

That's not a video I linked. That is his build thread from when his shop looked like yours does now. I'm not bashing your work shop at all, it looks much better than mine does right now. I also edited my above post to elaborate more while you were replying.

 

[DavidR8]

That's not a video I linked. That is his build thread from when his shop looked like yours does now. I'm not bashing your work shop at all, it looks much better than mine does right now. I also edited my above post to elaborate more while you were replying.

Sorry I meant to say that I've watched his video many times. I haven't made it all the way through the 291 page thread

Nevertheless, it is reassuring to know that I'm not leading the pack for disaster garages!

 

[Perrorojo]

Here's my 12" engineered steel beam. It cost me about $575 in 1995 when we built the house.

Been holding up my master bedroom and bath for 23 years.



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[rayra]

I think you'll be surprised that an I-beam isn't as costly as you think. A laminated beam is also an option.

yeah, beams are cheap. It's the labor and permits etc. My 2car garage door header is cracked, original builder picked a solid beam with a knot near the edge in the middle of the span AND set it with the knot facing down. Flat roof. Eventually it cracked around the knot and along the mid grain. A replacement laminated beam is $400. I couldn't find anyone that would touch it for less than $20k.
I bought a 12' long piece of 4"x4" angle iron, placed it under and inboard of the beam, used some jacks to jack it level and then added about 1.5" of 'pre load' arch, then drilled and set a bunch of large lag bolts into the beam. When I let down the jacks I got about a 1/4" of sag. I called it done. That was a dozen years ago.
Now we're talking about selling / leaving CA, and I've got to disclose or spend the money on a proper replacement. And eat that $20k++ either way. Should have fixed it right a long time ago, going to cost a lot more either way now.
Only upside is the house is 'worth' 2x what it was back then. So I'll still be making a decent profit on leaving. But that cost rankles.

As for the OP's dilemma, go look at the Patron Saint of Garage Journal's garage. He's got a post in the middle and made it work quite nicely. Just re-consider your entire layout criteria. There'll be a couple ways you can make it all fit. Re-conceive where everything is, not just where the big new added tool can go.

 

[DavidR8]

yeah, beams are cheap. It's the labor and permits etc. My 2car garage door header is cracked, original builder picked a solid beam with a knot near the edge in the middle of the span AND set it with the knot facing down. Flat roof. Eventually it cracked around the knot and along the mid grain. A replacement laminated beam is $400. I couldn't find anyone that would touch it for less than $20k.
I bought a 12' long piece of 4"x4" angle iron, placed it under and inboard of the beam, used some jacks to jack it level and then added about 1.5" of 'pre load' arch, then drilled and set a bunch of large lag bolts into the beam. When I let down the jacks I got about a 1/4" of sag. I called it done. That was a dozen years ago.
Now we're talking about selling / leaving CA, and I've got to disclose or spend the money on a proper replacement. And eat that $20k++ either way. Should have fixed it right a long time ago, going to cost a lot more either way now.
Only upside is the house is 'worth' 2x what it was back then. So I'll still be making a decent profit on leaving. But that cost rankles.

As for the OP's dilemma, go look at the Patron Saint of Garage Journal's garage. He's got a post in the middle and made it work quite nicely. Just re-consider your entire layout criteria. There'll be a couple ways you can make it all fit. Re-conceive where everything is, not just where the big new added tool can go.

I spent some time tonight measuring and drawing. Things are not a dire as I imagined. I just have too much junk. Well actually the previous owner of the house has too much junk. He's got 4 months to get it out

Who is the Patron Saint of Garage Journal? Jack Olsen?

 

[Falcon67]

>I just have too much junk.

Assets - the proper term is assets.

When I had a smaller shop, I had a small bench that I put at a height that would allow my small C-man 10" table saw to slide under. Maybe plan something like that on a grand scale for the saw - maybe place it but construct a movable work bench that parks over it during times not in use.

 

[DavidR8]

>I just have too much junk.

Assets - the proper term is assets.

When I had a smaller shop, I had a small bench that I put at a height that would allow my small C-man 10" table saw to slide under. Maybe plan something like that on a grand scale for the saw - maybe place it but construct a movable work bench that parks over it during times not in use.

I like this idea. I also think that I will run some power drops down the post and cluster some tools (bandsaw and drillpress) around the post.