Detached Garage Build - Looking for Advice

[mrcole]

Detached Garage Build - 24' x 40' Two Story

I'm new to the forums (just joined), but have found myself here several times browsing through the galleries or just searching general information.

My wife and I are about to purchase a home in Indianapolis, IN. It's been a pretty long and frustrating process with the way the market currently is, but I won't go into that. During the search process, we were looking for either:

A. Something with a 3 to 4 car garage

OR

B. Something with a 2 car and space to build a detached garage.

We ended up finding option B.

I plan to use the detached garage for parking and as a work shop. These are the general specifications for it:

- 24-26' x 30-35'
- concrete floor
- second story insulated work space
- single 18' wide 9' tall automatic garage door
- 1 man-door
- vinyl siding (matching house), front lower part of garage has brick to match house
- plumbing from house for wash sink (house is on crawl, approx 8ft from tap)
- 120/240 electric
- lighting

$40k budget. I plan on doing the heat and AC myself and will eventually insulate and drywall the main floor.

The area designated for the garage has a slight grade (sloping backyard that eventually meets up with a creek). I know this will require some extra blocks to be used and will most likely be filled with pea gravel.

I'm pretty new to the build process and was wondering if anyone has any experience with garage builders in the Indianapolis or surrounding areas? From the research I've done, it seems like the above build will fit within my budget (or maybe I'm crazy?). I've asked for estimates from 3 places: U-Build-It, Coach House Garages, and Pro-Built Garage. I'm awaiting feedback from each.

Is there anything else I should be thinking about with a detached garage build? Any reason to go with two garage doors as opposed to one?

Thanks!

 

[Stuart in MN]

Is the door going to be on the 24-26 end or on the 30-35 end? If it's the latter, I'd include one double and one single door.

 

[mrcole]

Door will be on the 24-26 end. 26' is about as wide as I can go (side facing the street). Any wider and it will start to venture behind the house.

 

[Oggy]

I'm going to throw in there windows.

I know they take up valuable wall space, however, they help with natural light as well as ventilation.

 

[MrElectric03]

Check out barn pros. They have kits that are bought and shipped and you out it together on your foundation. Haven't gone that route yet as I'm in the same boat as you but a couple years away from building a shop, but it's a route I'm definitely looking into. The 24'x48' I plan on is $26k including shipping and they even offer financing.

 

[matt_i]

This may be obvious but make sure you investigate

1) restrictive covenants in your proposed neighborhood governing "outbuildings"

2) zoning of the county or township that you intend to buy. There may be restrictions on the number and or size of "outbuildings".

On your idea to work upstairs, you are going to need extra HVAC despite a well-insulated space, if just going with attic truss and not a full 2nd story. Also I'd recommend an 8:12 pitch or more, 10:12 being better to get any kind of reasonable headroom so you have some width in which to standup and work.

 

[mrcole]

Oggy, Thanks. I forgot to mention them up top but I plan on doing 5 windows. 3 on the main floor (sides and back) and 2 on the second floor (front and back).

I'm going to throw in there windows.

I know they take up valuable wall space, however, they help with natural light as well as ventilation.

 

[mrcole]

All great points. Our new neighborhood has no covenants. I'll have to get a permit for the build, but I have the info an setbacks, height, etc and it seems I'm in the clear on those areas. Funny thing, the neighbor's fence is actually 1.5ft on our property after the survey. This won't obstruct the build with the setbacks so I'm not too worried about that. I went ahead and checked with the future-garage-side-neighbor about my proposed built. I know its our property, but I thought I'd make sure the neighbor would be okay with it - he's all for it.

The garage will have a full second story. Good call on a min 8:12 pitch. I believe I am going to land on a 10:12.

Getting ready to call about some estimates now - let's see how this goes.

This may be obvious but make sure you investigate

1) restrictive covenants in your proposed neighborhood governing "outbuildings"

2) zoning of the county or township that you intend to buy. There may be restrictions on the number and or size of "outbuildings".

On your idea to work upstairs, you are going to need extra HVAC despite a well-insulated space, if just going with attic truss and not a full 2nd story. Also I'd recommend an 8:12 pitch or more, 10:12 being better to get any kind of reasonable headroom so you have some width in which to standup and work.

 

[theoldwizard1]

2) zoning of the county or township that you intend to buy. There may be restrictions on the number and or size of "outbuildings".

Size especially. Around here height restriction are a big issue.

Also I'd recommend an 8:12 pitch or more, 10:12 being better to get any kind of reasonable headroom so you have some width in which to standup and work.

Better yet, go with a gambrel (barn) roof.

Even if you do not plan on in-floor radiant heat, install at least 2" of solid foam and a vapor barrier under your slab.

Garages are perfect for a mini-split heat pump system.

 

[mrcole]

Looks like I'm good for height up to 20ft. I would love to do gambrel roof, that was my first choice. My wife isn't feeling the gambrel style for some reason. I'm still exploring it as an option though. I have an initial design. I'll see if I can get some pictures posted.

Thanks for the tip about the foam and vapor barrier!

Size especially. Around here height restriction are a big issue.



Better yet, go with a gambrel (barn) roof.

Even if you do not plan on in-floor radiant heat, install at least 2" of solid foam and a vapor barrier under your slab.

Garages are perfect for a mini-split heat pump system.

 

[sberry]

Build bigger.

 

[matt_i]

You might find the biggest issue is connecting to an existing septic or sanitary sewer system. Some localities are pure nuts when it comes to regulations (e.g. counting garage square footage the same as residential house) when it comes to tank and field size. Hopefully not, but something that could be out there. You may have city sewer without the fuss.

I would also recommend designing the staircase in, up front, as you don't want it to chew out square footage you didn't plan for initially. Also important for setting trusses & rafters.

 

[mrcole]

So it looks like I am going to go the DIY route for the build. I really like these plans:

2 Story Garage

I am going to revisit my budget and start to get estimates for the concrete. Once plans are in hand, is there a good way to go about getting materials cost? I wasn't sure if this is something I could take (for instance) to a Menards and get a rough estimate.

I was thinking about the possibility of a vehicle lift someday. Anything I should be aware of for the concrete if that is in the future?

Thanks.

 

[mrcole]

Also, we are in the process of upgrading our electrical service. My current plan is to change our home to a 400A (320 cont) service and add the lines/disconnect from there to the garage (approx 18ft buried line).

 

[big_bake]

1. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that 2-story plan is well over the 20 ft height restriction you mentioned earlier.

2. 84 lumber has a price list for Behm garage plans. Check those plans out, I'm sure there is something similar. 84 will get you a quote if you give them the details.

3. If you want an automotive lift you won't have much ceiling height with a second story unless you build the garage even taller. There are lift options which only go up enough to roll under, but that may be all you want.

4. Some members have mixed scissor trusses with attic trusses to get an attic over part of the garage and still have enough ceiling height to use a lift.

5. electrical upgrade is similar to what I am doing. Talk to your electrician about NEC 230.40 Exception 3. You should be able to just run 3 wires from the meter the garage, no disconnect needed. This assumes the wires don't enter your house at any point.

 

[mrcole]

Yes, it is actually 28' to the peak. I am going to do a laser measurement on our house as I believe it is closer to this. I'll find out Friday. Curious if it is over by a foot or two if a variance would be something I can get.

In terms of a lift, not looking for another crazy, just something to get all four wheels off the ground. I do like the thought of mixed trusses to possibly go higher.

Wires should not be entering the house. I will definitely ask about this.

Thanks!

 

[big_bake]

Something to check on the height. Around here, the code says you can go 1.25 times the height of your principal structure as a long as the accessory structure is 20ft away from the principal. IIRC it's only for single story principal structures as well. Anything over 1.25x is where you need a variance.

 

[Smoker]

Sounds like exactly what I built. 30 x 30 two story, stick built on a slab. I kept it under the 20' limit the city imposed, it made the attic a little short (5' 10") but i still managed tall enough walls for a lift on the main floor. Your $40k budget is feasible if you do a bunch of the work yourself, buy all materials direct from the supplier and dont hire a GC.

 

[Smoker]

I would avoid the variance route if possible. Last thing you want is the neighbors having a say on what you can build.. it complicates the permitting process. I would only bother if its really worth the hassle.

 

[mrcole]

Sounds like exactly what I built. 30 x 30 two story, stick built on a slab. I kept it under the 20' limit the city imposed, it made the attic a little short (5' 10") but i still managed tall enough walls for a lift on the main floor. Your $40k budget is feasible if you do a bunch of the work yourself, buy all materials direct from the supplier and dont hire a GC.

If you don't mind, can you tell me what your materials cost was? Thanks.

 

[Theruse]

With Codes, electrical, setbacks, etc should not be a problem, but sometimes water/sewerage raises eyebrows. They want to make sure you are not building a separate housing unit, apartment, etc. I wanted to add a sink, hose bib, and center drain for washing in winter and they kept questioning me about converting it later to an apartment. So they may restrict you to a 2" drain rather that a 4".

 

[mrcole]

Things are finally starting! I have my plans approved and concrete is scheduled for mid July. I am going with a 24x40 2 story (talk about space maximization). I'll post my plans up along with my site plan soon. I'm getting the front area of the garage reinforced for a lift and possibly removing a quarter or half of the second floor for it. I've had a 200A service prepped for it (upgraded house to 400A service).

Looking forward to the build.

 

[mrcole]

Well, mid July has come and gone, but I guess the good news is concrete is verified to start this Thursday. Things should go pretty fast on that end. I have a quote back from 84 Lumber for the materials. The quote (down below the plans) seems kind of high? I'm new to this, but expected something slightly less with my estimations? I'm going to give them a call this week to discuss it - I'm pretty new to all this.

I was wondering if anyone with some experience/knowledge in this realm might chime in to comment? Just as a side note, I am going to try and document most of this process and don't mind sharing quotations/costs. This is a build that is going to take place in the Indianapolis, IN area.

Here are my plans, materials list for the 24' x 40' two story garage, and 84 Lumber quote - more to come:

84 Lumber Quote:

 

[mrcole]

So one thing I've noticed right away (and again, new to this) is that I can't get the numbers to add up to the total at the bottom? Also, the truss and frame package prices are 'with tax', but tax is included again at the bottom for the total. Am I missing something?

 

[850xpeps]

Looks like all the prices are with tax. So if you add all 3 together they equal the after tax price....

 

[mrcole]

Looks like all the prices are with tax. So if you add all 3 together they equal the after tax price....

Thanks for the sanity check! I definitely used the wrong line when adding the numbers up and noticed it shortly thereafter. I probably shouldn't be up this late reviewing numbers/plans.

 

[mrcole]

Had a little bit of a weather delay, but the excavating starts tomorrow. I received another quote for an all-in (roof, windows, doors, vinyl, garage door, vinyl, etc) stick built version of the garage. It came in at $45,500. That sounds like a good price to me for having someone else manage all materials and build.

 

[mrcole]

Foundation work was able to start yesterday. The area was excavated and footers poured. Probably not much going on today or tomorrow due to rain.

 

[Jetfixr320]

mrcole

I live in South Indy. I have looked online but have not been able to find the codes on building a outbuilding. What are the rules on setback in Marion county if I may ask?

Thanks in advance
Steve

 

[lakelandcat]

If I read you right $45,500 is just for the mat. and framing, siding, and roof decking? Be prepared for the little stuff, it adds up quick. IE- paint, shingles, ridge vents,insulation, permits, electrical, wire, fixtures, switches, outlets, covers for both, sheetrock, do you want attic access if so attic stairs, and the list goes on. Each of these on their own is not a whole lot but when you start to add them together it can run into the thousands. How thick of a slab are you going to pour? My slab alone was $5000 3 years ago. Here in TN. I had to have a permit for my slab, which meant I had to have a exterminator treat the area first and a arch. permit also, my electrical had to be permitted and a lic. electr. had to pull the permit, building permit for the framing, my point is be ready for the long haul, do as much as you can yourself, if you think its going to cost $45K-$50k tack on another $20K. If you don't spend it good for you but be prepared. My little shop in my avatar is a 24x20, 16x20 is the shop and 8x20 is a screened in porch which is what the wife got for letting me build. I stick built and was working for a big box store, I kept my eye out for returns, discontinued, sales, and with slab I have maybe $15K. I still have to buy sheetrock and insulation. I did all the work myself (except for pouring the slab). I had a elec. contractor bud pull the permit but I pulled all the wires, trenches, breaker box, ground rods, myself and it still cost $400 minus material, w/mat. around $1200. My point is it adds up. Remember its all fun. Mike

 

[doublearon98]

I assume you have very stable ground, hence no rebar in the footers (so it appears).

As lakelandcat stated, I hope you have roofing included in that price. If not expect at least $4-6k (at least that would be what it is around here in AR) for material and labor. You would need about 30 square of shingles. 30 squares of architectural shingles is about $2800, about $320 for felt.

Definitely try to do as much as you can COMFORTABLY feel doing.

I'd like to see everything unfold as you progress!

 

[mrcole]

Thanks. I forgot to post the quote to clarify. There was actually a mistake in the quote and it is for $47,000. Here is the current quote (see below).

I did contact them today about some changes and a new quote. Some things I am looking to do:
-add 3 more of the same window
-I noticed gutters/downspouts weren't on there so asked that they be added
-I am looking at removing the first 15ft of the second floor on the garage door side for a future vehicle lift installation. Let me know if that is way off in terms of overhead space needed - I just took a swag at this as 15ft sounded like a comfortable amount of space for this.
-Going with two 8' x 8' garage doors instead of one 16' x 8'
-Adding some brick to the front lower half (garage door face) to match our home (both face street).

Regarding rebar, I'm not sure if that was used, I'll have to ask. The area where the garage is being built is on a grade, hence the steps (and probably tall wall of block in the back).

I was looking for the all-in quote (minus electrical, insulation, & sheetrock). I'll update with what they come back with.

The foundation site is currently being drained via pump due to the heavy rains this weekend, almost empty! Thanks for all the feedback. Some pics from today:

 

[doublearon98]

Quote list looks good. Do plan to have 10k for the rest of the stuff you didnt include. Otherwise good price.

Regarding rebar: I know up in the northern states they dont use rebar as much, my guess is yall have more stable ground. Around here (south AR) we use it because ground shifting can lead to cracks in concrete. So probably no need to worry a hmm out rebar as long as you have a local contractor setting up the slab.

Now the 8'x8' doors. I dont think you will like them unless you have small cars. Run a tape across your vehicles at 8' and see what I mean. Very little room to spare.

The 15' in depth should be fine if you plan to drive in and over to the lift. What I mean is dont have the lift in front of the door so you can raise it while the doors are open.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[lakelandcat]

You also might want to think about breaking your wall on a 16'. makes it easy to rock and your walls will work out on either 2' or 16" center studs. You can use a 2 or 4 post lift and have plenty of room if you use a rollup door.

 

[850xpeps]

I would suggest 16” centres on studs ,
1/2 dfp on the roof on that low pitch not osb. Osb is fine for the walls. Also not sure which side your doors are on but I would not go 8’ wide. I would either do 2 - 10x8’ doors or maybe one that’s about 12-14’ and make sure it’s a quality door otherwise will sag and look sh!tty. Make sure the slab has rebar. It’s cheap.

 

[TractorJeff]

Door needs to be taller than 8 feet if possible.
Never know when you may need to back a Camper or RV in there to do repair!
Yes the door needs to be wider than 8 feet!
My Trailer is 8 feet wide!.

 

[mrcole]

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated - Updated to removing 16' of the second floor and changed to two 10' x 10' doors. More pictures from some blocks going down:

 

[lakelandcat]

looking good, never thought looking at pic would make my back hurt.

 

[mrcole]

Been a while since the last post - Concrete pad is complete. Materials are showing up early October and the build will start October 8th. Here are some pictures of pad progress/completion:

After some of the rain cleared, I noticed these dark/shiny spots? It seems like they have reduced since these photos were taken. Do these eventually clear up? Looks like dried enamel/cement.

There was a bit of a debacle where the skid-steer they were using slid off the back of our property into the drainage area. They had a Bobcat come to assist with removing it and it got stuck as well. They were eventually able to get out, but made a mess of our drainage ditch and some of the neighbors yard. I wasn't too concerned since the plan was to fill the back with some large rocks to help with erosion after the work was done. They did come back with a back-hoe to fix some of the dirt work and pile some more dirt behind the back foundation wall.

This is what the neighbors did, looking to do something similar:

 

[mrcole]

More updates - official build started 10/15. I'm using an Amish crew from the northern Indiana. They are doing a great job so far. The estimate for completing everything is 6-7 days. On my end, I'll have insulation, electrical, lights, and garage door openers to install. The first few pictures are from my security camera. I was out of town when the build started and didn't get to see it in person until this Thursday. One thing that stood out right away was the foundation being out of square (as you can see in the last picture of the back of the building). I'm not sure there is much I can do about this other than running the flashing out to cover it? I've called the concrete company and left them a voicemail to get their thoughts on this.