Determining property line on larger property - Surveyor wasn't much help

[Scotto]

I'm preparing to submit my permits and order my pole barn shortly. For the permit I only need to submit a sketch of the property with the location of the new building and relation to property lines.

I have a long property - 125'x900' and the building will be about 300' back. The 4 corners of the property are marked. How do I go about finding the property line where my building will go? I can't exactly string a line 900 feet because most of it is wooded.

I called a surveyor and they stated they will only provide the boundary survey but they don't mark anything other then the 4 corners. That doesn't help me! How do I go about finding where physically my property line is so I make sure I build it 20' away (the required setback)?

Maybe I'm just not asking the right questions or the right people. Thanks!

 

[vavet]

Do you know the compass direction of the property line?
Stand at the marked corner with your compass. Have a second person walk ahead of you. While you shoot the azimuth, direct the person to move left or right until they are directly aligned with the azimuth. Have them stand still when they reach a point where you won't be able to see them if they go any father. Then you walk up to them. Repeat that process until you are in the vicinity of where the building will go.
This is how we learned how to do 2-person land navigation in the Army.

 

[jkeyser14]

The surveyor you are using is a joke. A surveyor can easily drop a few stakes along your property line for you.

 

[dcs13]

The surveyor you are using is a joke. A surveyor can easily drop a few stakes along your property line for you.

This. Get a new surveyor.
We bought a HEAVILY wooded 40 acre property. They dropped at least a hundred stakes without issue. Felt bad for the guys because how hard they had to work to get one of the sides. They got it though

 

[wayne55]

When I was in same situation years ago, the surveyor put a couple of wooden stakes along the line for me. Of course he charged for it.

 

[sz0k30]

Get a real surveyor, but be prepared to pay for it.

 

[driftpin]

Don't be too-intent upon placing the construction on the minimum property setback. Give your self a couple+ extra feet, so you don't end-up in an unfortunate circumstance.

Why can't you fell some of those Jersey scrub pines to give yourself a clear line of sight? Vavet's method seems like it should work. Some-type of a laser sight should allow you to get very-close, I'd think. Use the method vavet proposed, then check it with a laser sight in the same fashion.

 

[Ilikeike]

Have the surveyor stake your building out also.

 

[GMCGarage]

Ask your surveryor then if he can come stake out the building corners where you want them.

 

[nadogail]

A Boy Scout Field Book will enable you to acquire the knowledge to complete this with the help of another able bodied bodied person. Clearing the sight lines can be done by kids with axes and saws, I did it as a Freshman in High School. Adult Supervision is an absolute must.

 

[Innovate1]

I had a 30 acre parcel with some heavily forested. Had them put some extra pins along the edges. Later I had a boundary dispute with a neighbor and had them come back and put in more pins along that area. As others have said you need a new surveyor. He should have at least told you he could do that for an additional fee. Don't just have them put wooden stakes - have them put in pins. That way a few years from now when you wonder where the lines are you can find the pins. I put some bright tape on a limb above the pin. In some places I put a steel fence post right beside the pin so I could find it.

 

[Scotto]

Thanks guys. Looks like I just need to find a new surveyor - I'll call around.
At this point I'd rather hire a surveyor instead of doing the line of sight. I already cleared about 60 oaks for my building and am not interested in dropping more .

 

[Northislander]

I purchased a 146 acre remote recreational property last year. I did not want to pay to get a surveyor out. I used a Garmin map 66st handheld gps and a program called ozieexplorer purchased online. i was able to find all 17 property pins and can locate any point between pins on the property. Property is also heavily treed and mountainous.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Just and idea, I had to use an online map to give the state the GPS coordinates for my Bee Hives, I just dropped a dot on a map. Seems to me, with this map and a hand held GPS you could find just about any spot on your property, even allow for the +- of such technology ? In essence, would it not be almost free ?

I think I paid $1200 last year to have a 16 acres surveyed. All hills and all wooded, I think they located about a dozen pins ? They also mapped the house, the shop, the well, and a couple other items.

 

[yeldogt]

I agree with others ... call someone else.

And I second having them drop the building points if you are anything cose to minimum setbacks.

You don't want to be wrong

 

[Super Sport]

I just had a new house surveyed, one surveyor would drop markers along the property line and the other just marked corners. I went with the latter since it's a smaller lot and the price was significantly cheaper. As others have said, find somebody else, but expect to pay for it.

 

[LOW1]

What you are asking for is a basic service that all surveyors should be able to provide. Are you sure that he/she understood what you wanted them to do? Otherwise find a different surveyor.

It may not be cheap though.

 

[bassbone52]

As a retired surveyor, I say make it clear to your surveyor what you want. There will be an additional cost, but it's not necessary to occupy the property line to set additional points on said line. It can all be done radially from one or two convenient instrument setups. He might have to cut some line, but that's part of the job.

FWIW, hand-held GPS is good for about +/- ten feet horizontally

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'm guessing surveyor A doesn't want to hack through the woods to add pins.

 

[Bobthetractor]

I'd pay for a surveyor to mark and verify. I'd have him locate your existing building as well but if time is of the essence, maybe you can pull the legal from an old permit or title when you bought the place and sketch quickly based upon the relation of another nearby structure. If you're nowhere near the setback or other restriction (stream, too close to other building, etc) then you're probably fine if you can get close to it on a sketch.

 

[ddawg16]

Does your cell phone have GPS? If so, even using Google, it's about +/- 20 accuracy. With a little messing around, you get get it even more accurate.

With some phones, it will be accurate to a foot or so.

900' is NOT that far. Have you tried a laser pointer at night?

Or, break it down in sections.

Get two strings....one 125', the other 176.7'

With the 176' string at the adjacent corner and one end of the 125' at the corner you are on, move towards the back until both are tight. That point will be 125' from your front marker and inline with the back marker.

Repeat for the back marker.

You should now have 2 points only 650' apart. Surely you can get a laser pointer that far.

Personally, knowing the 4 corners, this is how I would do it. I'd have more comfort knowing exactly where everything is.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Call another surveyor. If the first one you called says they can't / won't do the job, get one that will.

I watched a "surveyor" the neighbor hired to shoot his property line - all he did was find the pins the developer sunk 60 years ago with a metal detector, put flags where the pins were, and called it a day.

Of course shooting the actual lines and re-marking / re-pinning it will cost money, but that's what you're paying them for.

 

[SALIV8]

The random surveyor company I used dropped flags all along my property line. And I am wooded also.

Just call another one.

 

[383]

You can do a lot with Google earth, in combination of your County GIS site. GIS shows the property lines and structures, you can measure these on Google earth for reference points.

This can provide useful info, but don't use this method to maximize setbacks.

 

[nyy845]

Agree with everyone. Get a new surveyor, this is literally what they do....

 

[csp]

It's been 30 years since I did surveying, but we used to pound in metal T-posts adjacent to any property pin just to make it easier to find in the future and to keep heavy equipment off of them.

 

[mcbane]

You got good advice re finding a new surveyor. Unless you already checked into it, find out if you need to have specific features called out on a site plan. My county wants to see existing well, leach field, utilities, structures, and any body of water on the property. If you need to put any of that stuff on a map it is easy for a surveyor to get accurate locations while they are on site.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

It's been 30 years since I did surveying, but we used to pound in metal T-posts adjacent to any property pin just to make it easier to find in the future and to keep heavy equipment off of them.

When we bought this property I found the rear pins and marked them with 36" pieces of conduit pounded into the ground next to the pin. I would periodically add a piece of bright colored flag to them for visibility.

This spring I see that one of the conduits is gone? I look around and it's on the ground covered with some brush that the neighbor dragged into the woods. I clear a 10' radius and can't find the pin. I don't remember excatly where it was - just a general reference "over there". I really wanted to strangle my neighbor - but just took a deep breath and let it go. I'll go back with a metal detector and find it again. This time it gets marked with a metal fence post and a bear trap!

One a side note - last fall I was walking in the woods and tripped over something - it was an unknown to me sewer cleanout cap. I did mark that with a metal fence post for future reference. I guess I'm even WRT to marked items on my property . . .

Cheers

Jim

 

[logical]

If it's more cleared of trees 20 or 30 or 50 feet away from the property line, measure in that distance from each corner and run a string or sight that line. Where you want to set the shed just measure back that same distance perpendicular to the string, sight, laser, whatever you used.

In other words, establish a line parallel to the property line to work from.

Sent from my garage.

 

[ant.foste]

I have a plot map of my property stuck to the beer fridge in the garage. I saw a surveyor working up the street one day and struck up a conversation. $20, a bottle of water, that plot map, and 30 minutes later we had located, dug around, and flagged the five pins I could not find.

I couldn't find them because they were buried by 8" of dirt! I put some pex tube sticking up out of the ground next to the pins and filled in the holes.

As to the OP: find a different surveyor. Like any vendor, find one that will do what you want. Like Burger King, have it your way. There were two pins and four wood stakes visible on the 250' northern border of my property from when the previous owners replaced the septic and drain field right before we bought it. I'm sure the surveyor charged for every swing to pound those stakes into the ground, but he did the work as requested or required.

 

[Bighead38]

Just and idea, I had to use an online map to give the state the GPS coordinates for my Bee Hives, I just dropped a dot on a map. Seems to me, with this map and a hand held GPS you could find just about any spot on your property, even allow for the +- of such technology ? In essence, would it not be almost free ?

I think I paid $1200 last year to have a 16 acres surveyed. All hills and all wooded, I think they located about a dozen pins ? They also mapped the house, the shop, the well, and a couple other items.

Why did the state need to know where the bee hives were?

Property lines are funny. I was working at a house a few weeks ago and the neighbor started fighting with me over the property line. I knew she was wrong but she refused to accept it. I said ok so go get your survey and I’ll show you. Once I measured it out and she saw that her fence was actually in the property I was working on her attitude changed real quick.

 

[CraigStu]

If you will be close to your property line I don't think the cell phone + gps will work. I have found some of my property lines using that and I think it is only good to +- 10 ft. In this area the county maps all have GIS in their web address so search for that. I did, picked a couple of random points along the line, noted the GPS #s (they go out to 6 digits) and then walked around until I got to that number on my phone app. The last three digits never stop changing though so that is why I say +- 10 ft. It could be that carrying a fold up chair w/ you would help so you can set the phone down. I was always hand holding mine.

 

[yeldogt]

There are different levels of accuracy ... and now with more precise instruments --- one goes down the "since you can you must" trap.

The OP is in NJ .... I have bought and sold a lot of property in NJ. Surveys are cheap in NJ -- and they are required at settlement. Most properties have been surveyed many times and the plot points are everywhere ... even from the 1800's.

In PA it's just the reverse --- I have never needed a survey (it all deed description) and if you have a dispute or are building where you can't be wrong the cost for a survey is often very expensive ..... the "known" points in a given area can be far away. I had this on my current project with a tight lot .... need for a big propane tank. Being wrong was not an option ... you end up needing a higher level of accuracy.

NJ is weird .... People can have disputes over fences -- all agree the survey is wrong. But all have bought using the incorrect surveys. The lots are correct ... the point descriptions are not.

OP .... finding the existing points is not the same as a high level survey .... maybe they were concerned about liability without doing a check?

 

[John in OH]

The surveyor you are using is a joke. A surveyor can easily drop a few stakes along your property line for you.

This ^^^^. Go find another surveyor.

Whatever you do, don't "guess" the location of the property line. I've heard far too many stories about buildings built in violation of property lines because the owner didn't want to spend a few bucks on a property line survey. It can cause major future headaches if ya get it wrong.

 

[bigdav160]

I am not sure how much faith I have in surveyors.

I have a property line dispute a neighbor (yellow line). I am pretty sure the yellow line is correct because the corners of my property is marked with Corp of Engineer monuments.

The neighbor insist the line is about 30 ft away (pink dot).

And I have seen that survey (from 1982). It says THAT corner is marked by a piece of rebar.

For now I am not too worried about it. Those ladies who live behind me are elderly and not in great health.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

You don't want to leave land boundry disputes unresolved.
Eventually, adverse possession can mean your neighbor gets your property.

 

[ddawg16]

You don't want to leave land boundry disputes unresolved.
Eventually, adverse possession can mean your neighbor gets your property.

No kidding.

When One of my neighbors moved in, I made a point early on of making sure they knew the block wall between us was 1' on my property.

I have the pins to prove my property points so if they ever come back trying something funny....I'm covered.

 

[bigdav160]

You don't want to leave land boundry disputes unresolved.
Eventually, adverse possession can mean your neighbor gets your property.

Easy to claim but difficult to succeed in Texas

 

[Copymutt]

Just sold two adjacent 6+ acre parcels. Survey required. I knew where all pins were. Big cliffs here, 100+ ft straight down. That northern common to both parcels pin was a challenge. An elk had left a shed right at the existing pin. Used dead reckoning to find it. An interesting fact here in Colorado at least, Vertical surface (cliffs) do not count as the acreage. More than one surveyor has told me, If you flatten out Colorado it would be bigger than Texas.
Jim

 

[Jazz1]

Neighbour wanted me to go half on survey. i refused and then punched a stick at each corner of property(used my metal detector to find the steel stakes pounded in 60 years ago) He paid $1800 for surveyor to drop stakes beside mine