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Determining what to charge for welding&fab

Test Tech

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Automation Alley
Here's my question:
I've done some welding and fabrication on the side before, and would like to do more. But I've always felt akward about setting a price, and been worried about making enough to be profitable without pricing my self out of jobs. What I'm seeking is advice on how to determine what my price should be on a given task to ensure that I'm not loosing money overall. any advice would be appreciated.
 
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03protege

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Sep 13, 2012
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Louisiana
Here's my question:
I've done some welding and fabrication on the side before, and would like to do more. But I've always felt akward about setting a price, and been worried about making enough to be profitable without pricing my self out of jobs. What I'm seeking is advice on how to determine what my price should be on a given task to ensure that I'm not loosing money overall. any advice would be appreciated.

Call around to local shops and ask what they charge or get quotes on a job from all of them and determine how long it would take you.

Base your price on that, you can be the cheap guy who undercuts them or you can be the expensive guy who caters to the most demanding of clients. The ball is in your court. :thumbup:
 

Bobhdus

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Missouri
Everyone is different but if you already have a full time job then figure out what your OT rate would be at double time and charge that. I charge $60 an hour in my shop or on their site and $60 extra for a job that requires me to travel. The local weld shop charges $50 but I am not looking to work two full time jobs and I get plenty of business now even charging more than the other guy because I do the jobs "now" (when I get off my normal job for the day). The other guy can get to it in two weeks when his shop slows down. You have to remember, you can always work OT at your current employer if they have it. But time away from your family and life in general plus the extra stress of not being able to "check out" every now and then, you need to make it worth your time and to pay for your toys/ tools.
 

thightower

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oklahoma
I'd call a few machine shops to see what they get and adjust from there. I think most are between $70 and $100 an hour.
 
OP
T

Test Tech

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I think that from what you guys are saying I'm probably inline with what I should be charging or a bit below. Any further advice would surely be welcome.
 

davidB382

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Jan 18, 2010
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Memphis, TN
Here is one bit of advice that I've seen shared on some other forums that I liked. Not mine, just something I thought was good advice. Hope it helps! :beer:

Pricing, Estimating, And Success
by Brian Phillips
http://www.contractortalk.com/f16/pricing-estimating-success-27899/

One of the most challenging aspects of running a contracting business is estimating jobs. For someone with little experience, estimating can be a rather scary endeavor (it can also be scary for someone with tons of experience). After all, the accuracy of the estimate will have a huge impact on the contractor’s success.

This, I believe, is the primary reason we see so many questions asking what to charge for a job. But such questions are misdirected, because what I (or anyone else) would charge is completely irrelevant and doesn’t address the real issues.

The price of a job is comprised of 4 basic components: labor costs, material costs, overhead, and profit. Estimating is the process of identifying the labor and material costs. We add our overhead and profit to those costs to obtain our price.

Overhead—advertising, rent, insurance, utilities, phone, owner’s salary, etc.— is completely unique to each company. Without knowing these numbers, it is impossible to properly price a job.

Profit goals are also unique to each company. Again, without knowing the specific profit goals for a company, it is impossible to properly price a job.

Consequently, any attempt to answer a pricing question in the absence of these two key numbers is essentially meaningless. More to the point, pricing questions ignore the fact that a large percentage (often more than 50%) of the job’s price should be comprised of overhead and profit. (My suspicion is that those who pose such questions don’t know their overhead, and mistake gross profit for net profit. But that’s a different issue.)

As I said, estimating is the process of identifying the labor and material costs for the job. Labor costs are determined by the type of work being performed, the production rates of the company’s workers (the time required to perform each task), and pay rates. As with overhead and profit, these numbers will be unique to each company. Material costs are determined by the type of materials required, the quantity required, and their purchase price.

For example, let us say that a painting contractor knows that his painters can prepare and paint a certain style of door in 30 minutes. He looks at a job that has 10 of these doors. He knows that his painters can prep and paint these doors in 5 hours. He can also calculate the materials required by the spread rate of the product he will use. The contractor can now determine what his costs will be for the job. By adding his overhead and profit to these costs he will have his price for this job.

While the above example is simple and uses a painting project, the same principle applies to every contracting job—large or small, simple or complex—regardless of trade.

What should I charge for X? really means: what is the total of my labor costs, material costs, overhead, and profit? And the answer to that question requires a substantial amount of additional information. Providing an answer without that information is simply a guess.

Accurately pricing a job is not rocket science, but it shouldn’t be based on conjecture, blind guesses, or another company’s numbers either. Certainly accurate estimating takes effort, but owning a successful business isn’t easy. Asking what to charge for a job is asking for a short cut, but there are no short cuts to success.

Such questions about prices for a job are inappropriate, because they ignore the many factors that determine the price. Providing a price in response to such questions is also inappropriate, for the same reasons.

It is a documented fact that 90% of small businesses fail within 5 years. Of those that make it 5 years, another 90% will fail within the next five years. Which means, 99% of small businesses fail within 10 years. One of the primary reasons for failure is not charging enough. Contractors are as guilty of this as anyone.

There seems to be no shortage of hacks willing to work for dirt cheap prices. Nor does there seem to be a shortage of replacements when they inevitably fail. One of the most effective means for avoiding failure is to know your numbers. Asking what to charge for a job is simply an admission that you don’t know your numbers.

I hasten to add that there is nothing wrong or inappropriate with asking how to price a job. But how to price is different from what price to give. Learning the process is a good thing. Looking for an easy way out isn’t.

Putting paint on the wall is a trade skill. Pricing a job is a business skill. A skilled craftsman does not necessarily make a good businessman, because different skills are required. The owner of a contracting company does not necessarily need to have trade skills, but it is imperative that he have business skills if he is to succeed. The longer you wait to obtain those skills, the closer you move to joining those 99%.
 

zmotorsports

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I charge T&M (time and materials) for each job. I have gotten fairly good at estimating by looking at something and figuring out how long it will take. I then calculate up the materials and then add another 10-20% to that and usually end up damn close. This is on an estimate or quote. I don't quote very often. Most of my clients are regulars and know I am fair with them and just drop stuff off. I then charge materials and how ever much time I had into the job.

I did lose my *** the other night on a quick job that I didn't "think" through very well though. A guy dropped off a wheel from his sand rail that had a crack in it and needed it welded. He did ask me how much he would be looking at because he was trying to determine whether to fix it or just try to find a used one.

I took one look at is and thought "aah about a half an hour to weld it and blend it." So I told him 20 bucks, he is a good client/friend. He agreed and said he would be back the next night to pick it up.

It actually took me about 45 minutes by the time I got the wheel prepped, pre-heated, welded, ground/metal finished and put my tools away. I thought to my self, well a few minutes over what I thought it would be but not bad, until I was putting everything away and noticed that I had used two roloc grinding disks (@ $1.45/ea) and a 1/8"x 3" grinding disk (@ $1.80/ea), a couple of disposable towels, 18" of 3/32" 4043 aluminum welding rod and the argon. Then take into account the electricity to run the welder, lighting/utilities to do that job and I may have broken even.

Chalk that one up to a learning experience.

Mike.
 

sberry

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To add to david,,, there is a competition factor too as well as skill, speed or high specialization. As mentioned,,, big difference may be in hourly or quotes/estimates which I would want to beat up on the hourly if I could.
 
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Bobhdus

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Missouri
I bid a cracked Mercedes wheel at 1 hr ($60) in my shop. The guy said if it held air he would give me $100. I wasn't sure if it was Magnesium or Aluminum and the first weld was not real nice. After floating the crud out and smoothing it down the second weld laid in perfect. I decided to let the dealership mechanics do the grinding on the bead wall (since they had to mount/ balance the tire). He was super happy and I decided for that job and that I don't guarantee it won't fail down the road, to take the $60 in good faith to get more of that type of work. You might consider having a minimum fee. I don't openly advertise my welding as I don't want to compete with the other guy in town. I do it for the extra money. But I also have license, City Business permit and Contractors insurance, as I run a Locksmith business and do all my welding as part of that (door and window security bars etc...)
 
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zmotorsports

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I bid a cracked Mercedes wheel at 1 hr ($60) in my shop. The guy said if it held air he would give me $100. I wasn't sure if it was Magnesium or Aluminum and the first weld was not real nice. After floating the crud out and smoothing it down the second weld laid in perfect. I decided to let the dealership mechanics do the grinding on the bead wall (since they had to mount/ balance the tire). He was super happy and I decided for that job and that I don't guarantee it won't fail down the road, to take the $60 in good faith to get more of that type of work. You might consider having a minimum fee. I don't openly advertise my welding as I don't want to compete with the other guy in town. I do it for the extra money. But I also have license, City Business permit and Contractors insurance, as I run a Locksmith business and do all my welding as part of that (door and window security bars etc...)


I came to the conclusion after my little "learning experience" that for welding jobs I am going to have a one hour minimum. I know a lot of shops around have an hour minimum on mechanical work but I have always just charged what ever it took. If I could get the job done in ten or fifteen minutes then a quarter hour is what I charged, especially if I didn't use a part or any supplies. However, I have had two welding jobs lately prove to me that a minimum on welding work may not be a bad thing. Covers my *** anyway on expenses.

Mike.
 

2mJps

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You need a minimum to cover the times whem things dont go write.I have done side jobs on and off for years and dont know how you can make a good estament on something you havent done before.
 

Bobhdus

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Missouri
You need a minimum to cover the times whem things dont go write.I have done side jobs on and off for years and dont know how you can make a good estament on something you havent done before.


Some of the guys I work with in a manufacturing Plant say that usually you should come up with a $ figure you "think" it will be and then multiply that by 2. With a lot of my jobs, that would probably be just about right. You can also bid high and then discount as needed.

I learned years ago not to be the cheapest guy in town. Welding is a skill as other crafts may be as well. There are a lot of people out there that can weld but a rare few that have the resources, skill and confidence to do it on their own. You will also get hounded by your "buddies" and "friends" to do little jobs. Charging them what it's worth and or discount accordingly gets rid of the cheap-scapes and the nuisance jobs. Really, most honest customers want to pay. I personally don't like to be given a handout when I can afford to pay my way and I can't stand feeling like I owe someone.
 

ddawg16

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That is some good info above.....

And....looking at it from the engineering side...I think you guys are real close.

I have to agree with the 1 hr min.....for most jobs....but if you have a good customer come in...sometimes you have to do some good will....it keeps him coming back but not take advantage of you.

Basically...even if a job takes only 5 or 10 min....how long does it take you to setup?

It's sort of like doing the brakes on my jeep....it may only take me 5 min to pull off the wheels...and maybe an hour to do all the brakes....but it takes me 15 min to get out the floor jack and jack stands....another 10-15 min to get it jacked up and safe....another 5-10 min to round up the tools....it adds up....(but then again, in my case, I also have to factor in the 'beer factor'....how many beers does this task take?)

Then you need to factor in the costs of those tools you use.....a welder is not free....nor is the wire.....or electricity....

Bottom line....it's not just time.......

So...in summary...I think most if not all of you are being realistic in your costs.
 

holdover

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VA
retired now, so other than a small job every once in awhile, I rarely contract out any longer. When I was working I went by this standard told to me when I was young. Your time is something you cannot buy, but can sell. Every minute you have on this earth is precious, don't give any of them away. Once you learn a trade and do it well charge a fair price and people will be knocking at your door, I wasn't the cheapest, nor the most expensive. You will have steady work and return customers that feel that they aren't being taken to the cleaners, and so it was. Do good work at a fair price and balance work, family etc.
 

tininjun67

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Apr 4, 2005
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selma, tx
for welding I charge a per inch rate, plus a per hole drilled or cut made. then I can look the job over, decide how many holes need drilling, how many cuts, how many inches of weld bead, and add it all up. it comes out to about 60/hr which is close to my hourly rate.
 

tkonetzke

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Northeast Wisconsin
When I do any side work, I charge a rate that would allow me to the job over without losing money. This means buying any parts or materials and paying myself atleast $20 an hour. So if a job takes me 10 hours and $100 on materials I would change $600. This is subject to change at my discretion based on liability, just a starting point.
 
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