Detroit Tool & Manufacturing Company

[3baygarage]

So about a year ago, I acquired a pair of Williams ratchets that seemed to help solve this little mystery tool logo.

The logo, which appears as an unknown on Alloy Artifacts, has shown up a few times over the years on various sockets and these odd little ratchets ratchets that I’ve seen floating around. I know it’s also been a question here on GJ in the past as well.

Who is DTM?

One of the (WILLIAMS) ratchets I posted last year has forged right in the panel DETROIT TOOL & MFG. CO.. When I looked closely at the ratchet head, I also saw the bottom portion of a cut off hexagon logo. Hmmm....

Searching for info didn’t lead to much in the past, but last week I became interested again after running across a socket with the logo In a pawn shop. With renewed interest, I‘ve finally found something that 100% ties together the logo and the company. All thanks to this little matchbook was for sale online.

Edit: an old help wanted ad gives the company address, and believe it or not, our friend Google Maps took me virtually to the building which is still on site.

Here is the little 3/8 drive deep socket I came across.




The 1/2” ratchet



And....the matchbook!

 

[3baygarage]

Here is the old for hire ad found online at chroniclingamerica.loc.gov, , with the company’s address in the ad. Also pictured is the corner of the Detroit Times page it’s on, with a December 1944 date.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice work, 3bay! Talk about a cold case. It's been a few years since that has even come up.

 

[3baygarage]

Business directory, google books. DTM at 1660 Beard.




and the building, Beard St. Detroit, MI. Screenshots captured courtesy of Google Maps.


Lucky for us, located at the dead end of a street and still there.

 

[3baygarage]

Finally, my little collection.

I have one of the small ratchets with the DTM hex stamp, plus everything shares the odd part number stamps.



The sizes are 1/2, 5/8, 3/8 short, 3/8 hex short, 1/2 short


what the “39” represents in the cut off hex logo, who knows

 

[RPH]

So many of these small, medium, and large companies have left Detroit in my life. I’m 67 in March. Different city wide area today.

 

[3baygarage]

So many of these small, medium, and large companies have left Detroit in my life. I’m 67 in March. Different city wide area today.

Then I’m glad to have found these bits of information on a seemingly little known today company of the past.

I wasn’t able to find much, but glad there these few things on the surface of the web.

What stood out to me was the war era ad, and the mention of “steady employment,good postwar future.”.

Oops, knew I messed something up! Forgot the inside of the matchbook with the address!

 

[3baygarage]

Ratchet with stamping, like the one on AA.

 

[3baygarage]

Nice work, 3bay! Talk about a cold case. It's been a few years since that has even come up.

Thanks. It has been a while. I dredged it up a couple years ago, but I swear there is more conversation I can’t find, aside from the thread on one of these small ratchets. Maybe it was another tool forum or something,

 

[RPH]

Another chunk of Detroit history is getting ready to come down. The old kelvenator / American Motors headquarters.

Former AMC Headquarters to be torn down

Former AMC Headquarters to be torn down

www.detroitnews.com

 

[3baygarage]

My coworker who’s originally from Detroit brought up Kelvinator refrigerators this past week when I was telling him about this.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

So what are you thinking, 3bay? That DTM made their own 3/8-inch drive ratchets and sockets but outsourced the 1/2-inch drive from Williams?

(The model numbering scheme is vaguely Vlchek-like.)

 

[four.cycle]

Detroit, Michigan at one point was the second largest city in the U.S.

Fantastic work, 3bay!

I see those odd ratchets on ebay - no names, no part numbers. Now I know where they came from.

 

[3baygarage]

I don’t really have a theory just yet on what DTM made. The Williams is the only one of it’s kind I’ve seen with that name.

I know there was a larger socket with the hex stamp on Ebay some years back, and I thought I remembered it also. being a separate brand like Bonney or something as well. It’s been a while though, I could be wrong.

Here’s another you guys might find interesting. Posted this in 2016. Note the DTF mark on the head of the 5/8 square Williams ratchet above in this thread. I thought this socket from 2016 said DTF in a triangle but hard to read. Uses the same type part # as everything I just posted: Mystery Socket and drive plug

CS314, same # as the socket posted above. I’ll dig this out eventually and compare the two.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Oops, knew I messed something up! Forgot the inside of the matchbook with the address!

You ought to call the phone number to see if anyone picks up.

 

[MR.X]

Think I have a bunch of DTM stamped sockets somewhere on the West Coast. When I got them they were all mixed in with other vintage sockets including Blackhawk that seemed to have come from a Ford plant some having Ford style numbers and or the word FORD in script or block letters. ( I realize that claim is worthless without pics) Speaking of Ford the smaller ratchets remind me of those MTF Ford related ones. The DTM stamp reminds me of the IDF stamps on those 30's era Blackhawk ratchets.

 

[RTM]

Love that the logo is still on the building.

just did a quick dip into Google Books, looks like they existed 1940 -47, and in 1923, a spring mfg was at that address.

so much fun digging ahead, nice work closing a knowledge gap.

I love it, when you put “Detroit tool & manufacturing” into google, this is the top hit!

 

[four.cycle]

^ When running searches poking around trying to dig up information on obscure tool manufacturers I'm always amused when I get to the second or third page of Google search results and find a link to a GarageJournal.com page. Happens more frequently than you'd imagine.

 

[RTM]

Almost all obscure tools or tool companies I try, GJ is on the first page, often the first 5. Guess I’m not getting obscure enough.

 

[leg17]

Daggone that is a cool bit of work 3bay. Thanks

 

[3baygarage]

Thank you guys for the input and digging.

MR X, I agree. I've taken note of the Ford ratchet under MTF at AA in the past. The small ratchets also follow MTF Tru Fit line part numbers. Why would Detroit Tool & Manufacturing be using MTF numbers?

Even more questions to be answered.

From an MTF catalog at archive.org. It says Tin Medic scannes the cat.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My hunch, and it's just speculation, is that DTM / DTF (Detroit Tool and Forge?) was one of those peripheral outfits like Miller or Kent Moore who catered to the auto industry, made some specialty tools, but filled/rounded out their offerings with tools from other OEMs, and may have even been a third party conduit, but, unlike Miller or KMO etc, they didn't last.

 

[3baygarage]

That could well be. Heck, specialty tool supplier KR Wilson used Barcalo and New Britain rebrands for hand tools, as well as Williams I believe (haven’t seen rebrands).

 

[MR.X]

Here's a couple of DTM marked tools that were part of a large lot of Ford related tools with other makers not all represented here.

 

[3baygarage]

Those are some nice interesting pieces. Are the DTM sockets impacts or power sockets? They look like it.

What about the funky wrenches? Ratcheting line wrench?

Thanks for posting them.

 

[MR.X]

they look impacty.. I may never get around to sorting them. As far as the ratchets go your guess is probably better than mine I assume they were used somewhere in the Ford production process...the one at the top, not marked with DTM has a fixed socket on the other side that only ratchets in one direction, super smooth action though.

 

[Mark Stansbury]

From Newspapers.com, their liquidation auction was Sep. 24, 1946.

 

[MR.X]

1/2"drive sliding tee from today... marked ST-8 10, DTM logo all on sliding head. 31 in an oval on the end of the drive piece.

 

[3baygarage]

Neat find. I haven't seen that one.

 

[MR.X]

I don’t really have a theory just yet on what DTM made. The Williams is the only one of it’s kind I’ve seen with that name.

I know there was a larger socket with the hex stamp on Ebay some years back, and I thought I remembered it also. being a separate brand like Bonney or something as well. It’s been a while though, I could be wrong.

Here’s another you guys might find interesting. Posted this in 2016. Note the DTF mark on the head of the 5/8 square Williams ratchet above in this thread. I thought this socket from 2016 said DTF in a triangle but hard to read. Uses the same type part # as everything I just posted: Mystery Socket and drive plug

CS314, same # as the socket posted above. I’ll dig this out eventually and compare the two.

Out of a at least a dozen DTF sockets I found a couple with some fairly clear logos. Years ago I stumbled onto what was a apparently a box of random very vintage Ford factory tools with at least 8 different socket suppliers (MTF, Blackhawk, DTM, HFTS, etc) and Snap On and Blackhawk hex shank drivers. I think I mentioned something about that before but I finally went back and cleaned up a few and took a closer look.

 

[3baygarage]

That group is about as neat as it gets. A couple other odd brandings there that I'm not familiar with. So many numbers, letters and abbreviations for a bunch of sockets.

 

[MR.X]

That group is about as neat as it gets. A couple other odd brandings there that I'm not familiar with. So many numbers, letters and abbreviations for a bunch of sockets.

So here's that "S" in a diamond logo that's kind of difficult to see in the previous post socket array. The first pic is from the fixed socket tool on the the far right of the 2nd pic.

 

[MR.X]

Here’s that “S” logo on a ratchet.

 

[MR.X]

That group is about as neat as it gets. A couple other odd brandings there that I'm not familiar with. So many numbers, letters and abbreviations for a bunch of sockets.

All of those sockets except tor the Blackhawk’s with their GM standard 78XXXX #’s have 19-Z-** numbers reminiscent of Ford’s 3-Z and 5-Z tool prefixes. Here’s a 5-Z ratchet but the fixed socket is a 19-Z as well.

 

[Steven 33]

Am I seeing things or do these markings look similar

 

[Etchase]

There was a thread on here somewhere about locking or sorting old threads. I’m glad this one popping up in the feed let me discover it! Some great work.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Am I seeing things or do these markings look similar

Similar to what?

There was a thread on here somewhere about locking or sorting old threads.

If you're referring to the A-Z Index of Threads, located inside the Sticky at the top of this forum, this thread has been included in it for a long time.

I don't know what you mean by "feed", but if you read GJ from "New Posts" or any other means that takes you directly to threads, devoid of GJ Forum organization, and you don't access GJ the traditional way, from the main menu, where all Forums are shown, you won't see it.








The Index is the easiest way to see a list of ALL major GJ Vintage Tools Discussion forum threads at once, all hyperlinked, regardless of their activity. But you have to access GJ through the menu to see it.

 

[Steven 33]

Similar to what?

If you're referring to the A-Z Index of Threads, located inside the Sticky at the top of this forum, this thread has been included in it for a long time. The Index is the easiest way to see a list of ALL major GJ Vintage Tools Discussion forum threads at once, all hyperlinked, regardless of their activity.

I don't know what you mean by "feed", but if you read GJ from "New Posts" or any other means that takes you directly to threads, devoid of GJ Forum organization, and you don't access GJ the traditional way, from the main menu, where all Forums are shown, you won't see it.

I suppose I was referring to the markings on this.

 

[Steven 33]

Similar to what?

If you're referring to the A-Z Index of Threads, located inside the Sticky at the top of this forum, this thread has been included in it for a long time. The Index is the easiest way to see a list of ALL major GJ Vintage Tools Discussion forum threads at once, all hyperlinked, regardless of their activity.

I don't know what you mean by "feed", but if you read GJ from "New Posts" or any other means that takes you directly to threads, devoid of GJ Forum organization, and you don't access GJ the traditional way, from the main menu, where all Forums are shown, you won't see it.

Which I'm sure I'm wrong and just at the total speculation phase of trying to figure it out

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well, right and wrong are unnecessarily harsh terms. It's similar in the sense of the markings on your piece being applied by hand stamping, and probably with individual die stamps, but I don't see much similarity to the syntax or format of the alphanumeric model numbers on the old Ford tools, which all have a "Z" in them.