Diagnostics for TPMS

[rebelram]

The TPMS on my 2011 Ram has an issue and stopped reporting the tire pressure on the left rear wheel. I have rotated tires to see if the problem was a tire sensor and followed the tire to different locations on the truck. It does not. So I am pretty confident it is not the pressure sensor in the tire.

I suspect the TPMS just needs to be rebooted and cleared of codes. From everything I have read the entire system is wireless and is located somewhere in the ignition system. Service manuals do state that tinted windows and radio wave interference can cause temporary problems in reporting tire pressure measurements. My truck is bone stock, no tinted windows or aftermarket parts of any type.

I have already tried with my Innova OBD2 to check for codes and reset any, but it did not find anything. The service manual indicates that there is a special TPMS diagnostic computer that the dealers have that can talk with the TPMS. My question is, is there a similar unit that consumers can purchase? Or would Autozone, Advanced Auto, etc.. have one and could clear the codes for me?

It's incredibly frustrating that as much experience as I have working on cars, that I am completely stonewalled by proprietary computer systems on newer vehicles just because dealers are the only ones that have the diagnostic tools to interact with these computers. I really don't like shelling out $100-$200 just to get a dealer to clear a code, especially when it's something I could do just as easily if I had the right diagnostic tool to do it with.

 

[shockwave]

U will need a tire pressure scan tool bartec ateq and tips but u will need to either reregister sensors or replace one sensor as some cars u have to relearn every rotation aswell u can try a local tool truck if they have one to demo for u that is the cheapest option as tpms can get tricky with newer cars

 

[ATTappman]

The TPMS on my 2011 Ram has an issue and stopped reporting the tire pressure on the left rear wheel. I have rotated tires to see if the problem was a tire sensor and followed the tire to different locations on the truck. It does not. So I am pretty confident it is not the pressure sensor in the tire.

But the TPMS doesn't know where the sensor is, it has to be "told" with a relearn or registration procedure. Check your owner's manual to see if that truck has a procedure involving a combination of pressing odometer reset buttons and inflating/deflating the tires in sequence. Not all vehicles do. Autel has a line of TPMS scan/reset tools, but they're $400 and up, and I don't know much about their capabilities even though I have one myself (came free with something else).

TPMS *****. And yes, working on your own cars without expensive factory tooling will get harder and harder in the years to come.

 

[petty4243]

actually, you can buy the sensor, have it installed on wheel, then drive it, dodge learns that way....

otherwise, if you need to learn actual positions (not many dodges do) find a circular magnet.... and the procedure to learn....

 

[rebelram]

The weird thing to me is, I can take the Left Rear tire off (the one that it can't detect) and move it to the left front and it reads it just fine. Taking the one from the left front(reads fine on the front) and moving it to left rear, it then becomes the one that the TPMS can't read.

That tells me it's the truck, not the tires or individual tire sensors.

 

[DonnyT]

The weird thing to me is, I can take the Left Rear tire off (the one that it can't detect) and move it to the left front and it reads it just fine. Taking the one from the left front(reads fine on the front) and moving it to left rear, it then becomes the one that the TPMS can't read.

That tells me it's the truck, not the tires or individual tire sensors.

Are you sure it is reading the new tire position?? When changing tires on my 07 Tahoe or having them rotated, I must hit the "Re-learn tire position" button so the TPMS knows the new installed tire positions. It doesn't do it automatically.

 

[Mowerpan]

Are you sure it is reading the new tire position?? When changing tires on my 07 Tahoe or having them rotated, I must hit the "Re-learn tire position" button so the TPMS knows the new installed tire positions. It doesn't do it automatically.

Dodges don't require this like the GM's do.

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[djb2]

TPMS *****. And yes, working on your own cars without expensive factory tooling will get harder and harder in the years to come.

That doesn't need to be the case.

Dashboard computers are easily powerful enough to report every detected error, complete with an extended description if you need it. High end cars already have the hardware and storage to show you a video of manual diagnostics and possible fixes. There isn't any technological reason they couldn't include the complete blueprints of the car, part diagrams and a video of how to rebuild the engine -- that's only about $10 worth of flash memory.

Will this ever happen? Perhaps not. Dealers would strongly object, although it would barely impact their service work.

 

[Saiga1974]

The weird thing to me is, I can take the Left Rear tire off (the one that it can't detect) and move it to the left front and it reads it just fine. Taking the one from the left front(reads fine on the front) and moving it to left rear, it then becomes the one that the TPMS can't read.

That tells me it's the truck, not the tires or individual tire sensors.

My guess is you have a sensor gone bad or out of battery. TPMS sensor ***** that you can't just replace battery or fix anything. The sensor must be replaced and system re-learned/programmed as previously mentioned by "ATTAppMan"...

 

[petty4243]

Dodges don't require this like the GM's do.

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2

actually they do learn tire position.... they are just not as elaborate as gm.... tpms is not as difficult as it might seem....

rule one... if it says low tire.... check all 4... cause half the people do not relearn on rotations

if message says tpms error or lack of communication... then you have either tpms module issue or sensor.... so far, I have never replaced a module.. now, just a matter of figuring out which tire sensor needs replaced..

each manufacturer will have its own procedures for that,,, easy to find via google

 

[Roland-5.0]

The weird thing to me is, I can take the Left Rear tire off (the one that it can't detect) and move it to the left front and it reads it just fine. Taking the one from the left front(reads fine on the front) and moving it to left rear, it then becomes the one that the TPMS can't read.

That tells me it's the truck, not the tires or individual tire sensors.

That's because your truck doesn't know you rotated.

 

[Roland-5.0]

All sensors are learned at first then if you rotate front to back and don't relearn them and it says low tire LR then it will be the LF that's actually low. You must perform a relearn every time a tire gets its position on a vehicle switched.

 

[noslocars]

My buddy has a 2008 Dodge truck that had the sensor light on constantly. He went to discount tires and had all 4 sensors rebuilt when he replaced his tires. Not sure whats involved but I know they change some o rings. Anyways his light stayed on even after discount reset it and checked it out with their machine. He went through 3 days going back everyday to tell them the light was still on. Discount finally took it to the dealer and they undid his battery cable, let it sit for awhile and they hooked it back up and everything worked normal. Might be worth a shot.

 

[Mike.ASC]

All sensors are learned at first then if you rotate front to back and don't relearn them and it says low tire LR then it will be the LF that's actually low. You must perform a relearn every time a tire gets its position on a vehicle switched.

Bingo !

 

[srmofo]

The weird thing to me is, I can take the Left Rear tire off (the one that it can't detect) and move it to the left front and it reads it just fine. Taking the one from the left front(reads fine on the front) and moving it to left rear, it then becomes the one that the TPMS can't read.

That tells me it's the truck, not the tires or individual tire sensors.

If you dont relearn the tire positions it doesnt matter where you move that LF tire to. Its always going to the read the pressure in that tire as the pressure in the LF tire.

Lower the pressure significantly in one of the tires and move it around the car if you dont believe me. It will read that same low pressure regarless of which position its at

K.I.S.S. You are over thinking this. It really sounds like its just a dead sensor. Take it to a shop and have a new one installed and programed. We can pretty easily put our hand held next to the sensor and it will tell us if its DOA.

Many cars now either have a TPMS light (not a low pressure light) to indicate a failure in the system or they will flash the low pressure light to indicate a fault other than low pressure

 

[MattPersman]

http://www.auteltech.com/autelcms/TPMS Diagnostic & Service Tool/403.jhtml

DIY

Probably a sensor IMO, but what do all of us that work on these everyday know.

 

[rebelram]

Thanks for the info, maybe I am overthinking this. Also if it helps any, The TPMS installed in my truck is the type that has the idiot light and also in the center of the gauge cluster, there is an LCD type screen that has all sorts of monitoring information. I believe Dodge calls it an EVIC. For the TPMS part of the menu it has a diagram of the truck and it reports individual values for each tire. The left rear just reports a "--" instead of a number. At the top of that menu it displays the error "Service Tire Pressure system"

Any of you shop techs have a ballpark price on what this type of repair is going to cost me if it's just a faulty sensor? I'm guessing a flat rate of $80-$100 for diagnosing the problem and then whatever it costs for parts and labor? It looks like dealer pricing on a sensor is around $76
Should I expect a $300 invoice on this?

 

[Gotmayhem]

Thanks for the info, maybe I am overthinking this. Also if it helps any, The TPMS installed in my truck is the type that has the idiot light and also in the center of the gauge cluster, there is an LCD type screen that has all sorts of monitoring information. I believe Dodge calls it an EVIC. For the TPMS part of the menu it has a diagram of the truck and it reports individual values for each tire. The left rear just reports a "--" instead of a number. At the top of that menu it displays the error "Service Tire Pressure system"

Any of you shop techs have a ballpark price on what this type of repair is going to cost me if it's just a faulty sensor? I'm guessing a flat rate of $80-$100 for diagnosing the problem and then whatever it costs for parts and labor? It looks like dealer pricing on a sensor is around $76
Should I expect a $300 invoice on this?

Depends where you go...I do this stuff all the time and I'm pretty sure my indie workplace will usually just charge you the price of the sensor and the usual price for a tire mount/dismount or something like that. Definitely not a $300 job but you never know. Diagnosis with the proper tool will take next to no time at all though, as a customer I wouldn't be happy being charged $80 for someone to point a handheld tool at my tires.

What I would do if you showed up would first test the sensor with the TPMS tool, I'm not familiar with the Dodge system but it seems from the thread you may have a dead sensor. If that is the case then it's at most a 25min job to put on a new sensor from start to finish. Someone mentioned rebuilding sensors with o-rings. That sounds more like the person got the hard valve re-ringed, not the actual sensor, which just hangs off the valve stem by a mini torx bolt.

edit: as for the tool...

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=682190&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

$1400 for quality Taiwan
I'm sure you could find one cheaper that would serve the same purpose. Though this SO one is pretty cool. It has regular updates adding new cars and such. It has settings for a lot of cars you don't normally see, such as Alpina. Pretty much everything imaginable and works very well.

 

[Roland-5.0]

Also make sure you inflate them to the reccomended pressures that you vehicle placard says. If you go outside the calibrated "window" then it may set a tpms light even though all tires are say at 65psi but the truck is meant to have 40 just an example. And I know the newer 3/4 ton gm trucks are different from front to back for pressures.

 

[firebox40dash5]

That doesn't need to be the case.

Dashboard computers are easily powerful enough to report every detected error, complete with an extended description if you need it. High end cars already have the hardware and storage to show you a video of manual diagnostics and possible fixes. There isn't any technological reason they couldn't include the complete blueprints of the car, part diagrams and a video of how to rebuild the engine -- that's only about $10 worth of flash memory.

Will this ever happen? Perhaps not. Dealers would strongly object, although it would barely impact their service work.

VWs don't *need* to require $1k+ in software just to replace a f***in' set of rear brake pads either, but here we are.

They ain't in the business of using their newfound complication to make things easier.

 

[TDWendt]

IMO TPMS should be an optional accessory. Lots of people need a light to tell Em to check the pressure or of they have a flat. I understand why it mandated. But as a tech stopping every 5-10mins to go outside to do pressure checks due to the light on dash is annoying and it's freaking Cold out in Ohio right now. Out of 15 pressure checks I had to stop work to do today 2 cars had legitimate low tire.

Ok back on topic-sound like you have a dead sensor. Take the truck to your local tire store and gave Em scan the sensors and set pressures and go from there. My shop does it's for free

 

[joebiodiesel]

The system on your truck doesn't have to be relearned the way many TPMS systems do. It works differently.
The tire pressure sensors on your truck can recognize the direction of rotation as well as the pressure/temp, and they transmit that data to the truck. Then the Tire Pressure Module check the signal strength of the sensors while sitting still to determine if the sensor is in the front of back.
So, between learning which way they are spinning, and comparing the signal strength, it knows what corner each sensor is on. To marry a new sensor to the truck, just drive it and park it. As others have said, you probably just have a sensor that died. A TPMS tool would help you diagnose it 100% before you go hanging a part on it.

Joe

 

[MattPersman]

I do thinks its funny how many more people now a days you see in crappy gas station lots at the coin operated air compressor trying to put air in the tires fighting a slightly too short hose lol

 

[petty4243]

IMO TPMS should be an optional accessory. Lots of people need a light to tell Em to check the pressure or of they have a flat. I understand why it mandated. But as a tech stopping every 5-10mins to go outside to do pressure checks due to the light on dash is annoying and it's freaking Cold out in Ohio right now. Out of 15 pressure checks I had to stop work to do today 2 cars had legitimate low tire.

I agree, it should be a convienience thing, but was federally mandated on 2010 model year and newer..... amazing how some fat lazy congressmen can mandate better fuel economy and more systems in a vehicle to add weight and more complications to the cars

 

[srmofo]

IMO TPMS should be an optional accessory. Lots of people need a light to tell Em to check the pressure or of they have a flat. I understand why it mandated. But as a tech stopping every 5-10mins to go outside to do pressure checks due to the light on dash is annoying and it's freaking Cold out in Ohio right now. Out of 15 pressure checks I had to stop work to do today 2 cars had legitimate low tire.

Ok back on topic-sound like you have a dead sensor. Take the truck to your local tire store and gave Em scan the sensors and set pressures and go from there. My shop does it's for free

And to add to this, i bet 10-15% of the cars i pull in have the light on, yet the customer id completely unconcerned about it.

 

[honcho]

I agree, it should be a convienience thing, but was federally mandated on 2010 model year and newer..... amazing how some fat lazy congressmen can mandate better fuel economy and more systems in a vehicle to add weight and more complications to the cars

Requiring TPMS was, in part, a response to the Ford Explorer / Firestone tire failures. Ford specified a surprisingly low pressure for the Explorer to improve ride quality and when tire pressures were even slightly lower than the specified pressure, tire temperatures went up drastically and the Firestone tires were subject to catastrophic failure, resulting in more than a few deaths and nearly bankrupting Firestone.

On my own cars I'd rather not have TPMS, nor Airbags, nor ABS, nor seatbelt warning alarms or a bunch of other mandated equipment unless I asked for it. For my daughter and all those other people who don't know or care much about the vehicles they drive, then those safety features are a good thing.

 

[petty4243]

Requiring TPMS was, in part, a response to the Ford Explorer / Firestone tire failures. Ford specified a surprisingly low pressure for the Explorer to improve ride quality and when tire pressures were even slightly lower than the specified pressure, tire temperatures went up drastically and the Firestone tires were subject to catastrophic failure, resulting in more than a few deaths and nearly bankrupting Firestone.

On my own cars I'd rather not have TPMS, nor Airbags, nor ABS, nor seatbelt warning alarms or a bunch of other mandated equipment unless I asked for it. For my daughter and all those other people who don't know or care much about the vehicles they drive, then those safety features are a good thing.

that was nearly 10 years before the tpms mandate

 

[ATTappman]

that was nearly 10 years before the tpms mandate

From the wiki article on TPMS:

"In the United States, the Firestone recall in the late 1990s (which was linked to more than 100 deaths from rollovers following tire tread-separation), pushed the Clinton administration to legislate the TREAD Act. The Act mandated the use of a suitable TPMS technology in all light motor vehicles (under 10,000 pounds), to help alert drivers of severe under-inflation events. This act affects all light motor vehicles sold after September 1, 2007."

Sometimes the government mandates something stupid immediately, other times the stupidity is delayed or phased in gradually.

 

[MattPersman]

Question about states with "inspections" if your tire light is on do you fail?