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Dial indicator and base

MackMan

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Hi All,
I'm thinking it would be handy to have a dial indicator or 2 and a magnetic base for things like checking wheel, and brake rotor true etc. I've used Starrett and Mitutoyo at work, but would like something a little more budget friendly for home use.

Based on a search here it seems NOGA is the only way to go for the base, and it makes sense to spend some $ there since I'd be trying to mount to a vehicle frame etc, and if we're trying to measure thousandth's of an inch the base needs to be quite secure.

Is something like this good, or what direction should I be going?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CBIVYE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

My budget is "as little as possible to get the desired result" I'd rather spend $ once, so if it means I have to wait a few months or a year or more to get the right tool, then so be it...

On the other hand, I'd rather not dump a huge pile of $ into something that gets used 2-3 times a year...
 
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MackMan

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Fcvapor05

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If you go that route, you're getting a REALLY nice base, and really ****** indicators.

The thread you linked is a guy who already has a nice indicator and wanted a nice base. There's also clones of Noga bases out there for less than $20.

The indicator is what really matters. If you're only using it a few times a year, not constantly adjusting it multiple times a day, a cheap indicator base is going to work for you exactly the same as an expensive one.

Look at it this way- if you buy that kit, you're getting a roughly $150 base, and 5 $6 indicators. What're you going to do with 5 indicators of questionable quality? The indicators appear to be all the same travel and graduation, so it's not like you're getting any additional capability by having 5 of them.

If you're dead set on getting a Noga base (and they are very nice, not saying they're not worth the money) then maybe this combo:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C6ARLFE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?...joX-8Oeut9RsfNPjn_AGK7nXu5AZdrIuZgaAvTZ8P8HAQ

Fowler stuff isn't Mitutoyo or Starrett, but their stuff is good enough to do most things without falling apart.

The base you're targeting it top-tier. It doesn't make much sense to me to pair it with a trash heap partner. Honestly, for the type of use you're describing, an indicator/base set from someone like Fowler, that can be had for $80 or so, will probably suit your need.
 
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larry_g

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oregon
In my opinion, if you're willing to spend that much, you'd be MUCH better served buying these:



Dial indicator bases are very cheap. You want to spend money where it counts, and that's the indicator itself.

I'm going to disagree with the above. You can have the best indicator on the planet and if your holder is flopping around you might as well use a yardstick.

That said Noga is in the top tier of mag bases but there are plenty of good mag bases out there. If your doing the machine work and have to prove your part then most certainly go top tier. If your checking if you rotor is warped out of spec then most any indicator will do. Let you spec's drive the tool you need. If you have a +/- .010" you can get most any indicator, but if you have +/-.001 then you have to move into the highbuck territory.

In my experience I have not run into many places on a car that have a good machined flat to land a mag base on and that a clamp on indicator holder serves me better.

lg
no neat sig line
 

Fcvapor05

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I'm going to disagree with the above. You can have the best indicator on the planet and if your holder is flopping around you might as well use a yardstick.

That said Noga is in the top tier of mag bases but there are plenty of good mag bases out there. If your doing the machine work and have to prove your part then most certainly go top tier. If your checking if you rotor is warped out of spec then most any indicator will do. Let you spec's drive the tool you need. If you have a +/- .010" you can get most any indicator, but if you have +/-.001 then you have to move into the highbuck territory.

In my experience I have not run into many places on a car that have a good machined flat to land a mag base on and that a clamp on indicator holder serves me better.

lg
no neat sig line

I don't disagree with what you're saying, all I'm saying is that an indicator holder that will do the job perfect doesn't have to cost $150. The difference between a $150 indicator and a $10 one is a LOT bigger than the difference between a $150 base and a $15 one.

Do agree about a clamp-type base though. If you're checking rotors there's *usually* somewhere on the upright that you can make work with a mag base, but for in-car engine stuff it can be harder.
 

383 240z

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Fcvapor05

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Fowler indicator
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=KK890-9824
$25.99 - 20% = $20.79
Noga base with 70lb mag
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=326-1369&PMPXNO=12387651&PARTPG=INLMK32
$60.95 - 20% = $50.36

Free shipping $71.15 Not bad for a good tool.

You could upgrade to the 176lb mag version for $105.95-20%=$84.76 That's the one I have, I use it 10-15 times a day and LOVE it. I have no idea why I suffered with the other type of mag base for so long. Keith

That's a pretty solid combo right there.
 

bob15

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MackMan

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I don't even know enough about dial indicators to answer that question. As I said main use is check the "true" of wire wheels, and brake rotors.

 

PBCampbell

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Sounds like "test indicator" type jobs. I'm not sure what you'd be checking wire wheels for, but there is a nice write up somewhere on indexing brake rotors. I think the contributors name is Stick.

"My twist on the standard brake job (lots of images)" is the title of the thread. I don't know how to post the URL here.
 
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MackMan

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Sounds like "test indicator" type jobs. I'm not sure what you'd be checking wire wheels for, but there is a nice write up somewhere on indexing brake rotors. I think the contributors name is Stick.

"My twist on the standard brake job (lots of images)" is the title of the thread. I don't know how to post the URL here.

Check wire wheels for "roundness" Spokes can be adjusted. The wheels on my Jag have never been properly balanced, and I'm wondering if the 50 year old wheels maybe not quite round thus even if they are "balanced" still not smooth.

Sent you a pm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got it... pondering.
 

Professur

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I bought a cheap one. Good base ... dial indicator was out by 30%. It was accurate to itself .. always read the same position .. but after measuring something, I'd have to use a feeler gauge to see what the actual measurement was. Makes a good run out gauge, but for measuring end play .... it makes for a long day.
 

PBCampbell

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Ohhh, wire wheels as in spokes. I read wire wheels and only thought of the type on grinders for material removal.
 
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MackMan

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So...
If the wire wheel isn't true;
What are you going to about it?
Truing wire wheels is not for the uninitiated.
You are not on the right course with your plan.

How did you use the tool at work but not know about them?

Wheels can be trued with a piece of welding rod and a 2x4.

Adjust the spokes.

I was a test engineer for about 5 years... Used a variety of dial indicators on an almost daily basis for measuring vertical displacement. Only ever used one type, Picked the one from the instrumentation inventory that had the correct range and precision. I never bought one, nor got any education in the different types... our instrumentation and calibration group did that, I just knew what I needed to measure.
 

Greatwhitewing

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Nov 20, 2011
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I have a couple mag base and I haven't found them useful onthe cars. A CLAMP base is on my wish list.
 
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MackMan

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another thought with the mag base, at least for checking wheels, is put it on my balancer, which would probably overall be a lot easier than working in a wheel well anyway.
 

Adam.C

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With all due respect to my esteemed fellow GJers, I wish we could hear more objective reports on stuff like this. What i suspect is that people hear NOGA is best on another forum and repeat it here without qualification. Talk like "you'll be sorry if you don't get the best" I find wholly unhelpful.

So here's my take:

1) NOGA does not make the best indicator holders. Swiss models like MP-TEC are clearly superior, but come at a hefty increase in price.

2) Its very possible people here may not need the features NOGA offers. So let's discuss a few features of these arms. Hopefully this will explain why guys on PracticalMachinist (for example) like Noga.

When machinists use indicator holders to measure (or indicate) stuff, they/we are looking for very specific features:

a) We want an arm that is easy to adjust when we place the indicator where we wish. Noga features a single adjust mechanism, different from the old school multi-joint arms. This is a significant advantage when placing the arm into weird positions. When indicating off of something flat and square onto something else flat and square, this isn't always an advantage. Loosening a NOGA adjustor frees all axes. Whereas the old fashioned models allow adjustment of each arm independently. This can be helpful, depending on the setup

b) The arm has to be STIFF and secure at any possible angle. We don't want static deflections, especially if the arm moves (in orientation) with respect to gravity (indicating the outside of a basketball for example). Noga is pretty good. There are better. The worse are often FAR worse rendering such holders incapable of indicating anywhere near the desired accuracy.

c) NOGA uses a powerful but conventional magnet. The medium sized model produces about 175lb mag force. The Swiss versions over 200lbs. This is good for machine shops where you don't want the arm to move if it is bumped or rattled. It also will attach thru non-magnetic materials (paint, grease, paper, plastic). Could be good to have a super powerful magnetic for automotive work. And the on off switch is an awesome feature.

d) NOGA uses a cable system for tightening. The Swiss models use stainless steel rods. NOGA cables may stretch when tightening and provide a slightly softer on/off feel. The issue here is getting the indicator exactly where you want it. The quicker and stiffer the locking mechanism, the less torque you need to apply (which deflects the arm momentarily) while you stretch the cable. Bigger issue for people making super precise measurements, less of an issue with the rest of us. BUT- cheap arms are even softer. You tighten the arm then it moves when you let go. Very frustrating.

d) Different holders use different forms of adjustment. All indicators have some form of zeroing. But depending on the stiffness of the arm zeroing the indicator can be tricky. Sometimes its better to make the adjustment on the arm. NOGA offers 2 different versions, one at the base, one at the clamp. For weird off angle and test indicator stuff, I prefer the clamp adjust. Guys finding TDC may prefer multi joint arms with base adjusters.

e) Arms have different clamp mounts. NOGA offers a "universal" 3/8", 8mm(5/16"), and 6mm (1/4") stud holes plus a dovetail. Chinese test indicator DTs will not fit the NOGA. Noga DTs fit Swiss tools, Mitutoyo etc.

My recommendation is, if you are a machinist looking to tram your mill head, mill vise, check run-out on your lathe, I recommend NOGA at least. ( I have 3 of them) If you work sub .0005", you may benefit from a better quality arm.

For the mechanic checking brake rotors, or finding TDC, an old fashioned arm with multiple joints may be fine. But remember the devil is in the details. Where will you attach the base when checking rotors? Is there a flat spot? Is the magnetic strong enough to work thru rust? Small contact patch? If the arms are long will they get in the way? The NOGA style might be better in this situation. For top of engine, an old fashioned Starrett cylinder base might be fine and available on ebay cheap.

Ask (detailed) questions and buy the right tool for the job, not my personal unqualified favorite.
 
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