Did I screw the pooch?

[Robert Haas]

Did I screw the pooch, I bought a DEBER Mill?

Walked into a friends machine shop and saw this monster sitting in the back of the shop

It is a DEBER Milling machine, A universal swivel head ram type machine.


It looks like it has never been used.


The guy bought it at an auction and has not had a chance to set it up and is looking for literature on it. His boss said he can't keep it there so I said he should sell it to me. I was half joking and expected him to laugh me out of there. He didn't, Now I own it...



Uh oh

 

[Robert Haas]

Where oh where will I find information on this?

 

[LXCam]

I'd contact these guys or any used equipment places that also refurbish and see where they can point you.

http://www.williamwatts.com/

 

[Rileysan]

Walked into a friends machine shop and saw this monster sitting in the back of the shop

It is a DEBER Milling machine, A universal swivel head ram type machine.


It looks like it has never been used.


The guy bought it at an auction and has not had a chance to set it up and is looking for literature on it. His boss said he can't keep it there so I said he should sell it to me. I was half joking and expected him to laugh me out of there. He didn't, Now I own it...



Uh oh

I see your problem - the warranty expired in 1987!

But seriously, it's hard to go wrong with any US made machine.

 

[Air21]

I have a Cincinnati Milacron grinder in the shopping the same color, with the same knobs and wheels made in Germany. I don't know where Deber is from, my gut says it's not USA. Deber is Spanish for Duty... Maybe it's like Lagun used to be, made in Spain?

Any mill is probably better than no mill... Run it till it breaks then back off one!

 

[LXCam]

I see your problem - the warranty expired in 1987!

But seriously, it's hard to go wrong with any US made machine.

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember Deber being an Italian job. I remember doing some control repairs on a couple machines back in the mid 80's and the control voltage was some crazy oddball voltage. I couldn't source the control transformers that smoked so I built my own using a standard 480-240 and then bumped it back up with a buck boost to I think (I repeat THINK) 380? Been a long time so I'm not certain but I do remember it being a crazy deal.

 

[gungatim]

I know nothing about those machines or the company. but something tells me that was not a US made machine. just looks like a high end Taiwan import for the US market...maybe research the company and find out what factory actually made it and see if there are other brands they supplied for to get a manual???

or I could be way off base...

oops! poster above is likely correct, I didn't look at ALL the pictures...

 

[EOC_Jason]

Castano Primo (address on the side-plate) is a city in Milan, Italy...

What's on the side-arm, just a DRO?

Seems kind of bulky for a knee mill, I guess the coolant stuff must be in the body? Maybe it's just the angle of the pictures...

 

[vavet]

I love the oil type: lubricating oil.

 

[Robert Haas]

It has a horizontal and vertical cutting orifice(Don't know what this stuff is actually called, first machine I have ever had)

 

[2oolhound]

Excuse me but ….shouldn't you have bought a Haas mill?

 

[EOC_Jason]

It has a horizontal and vertical cutting orifice(Don't know what this stuff is actually called, first machine I have ever had)

Oh sweet, did not see the horizontal spindle! That's pretty cool! Versatility!

 

[rsanter]

I don’t see the problem
Now you own a mill, isint that a good thing?

 

[paulsomlo]

Screw the pooch? You're kidding, right? Unless you paid a ridiculous amount of money for it, you should be doing cartwheels right now! Search on Youtube, there's two videos of the Deber US 120.

 

[Robert Haas]

You're thousands of dollars of tooling away from making it usable. Is it three phase? That's much more to convert.
Big footprint to make it usable. About the size of a truck hood at the least.

It's a gorgeous piece of equipment, but I'd find a trade as soon as I could and get something without so much need to become useful.

It should be excellent trading material. I don't think you did too wrong depending on the price and if you have a way to move it and you're good at listing a deal and trading.
I might have taken it specifically to trade, but sure not to use as a beginner who may hate the milling process.

Offer it for sale here on GJ and you'll see what others really say about wanting it.

I have always fantasized about owning a mill and have wanted a Bridgport for 30 years.

If I can get this baby homed and operational I think I will be smart enough to figure it out.

Tooling is very expensive, bt I knew that going in.


I paid 2 grand for this puppy.

 

[POS Racing]

Looks like they are now based in China - https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/X6336-Deber-Milling-Machine_60257642502.html

 

[EOC_Jason]

You did pretty good for that price, it looks in pristine condition...

They might have some tooling and stuff at your friend's machine shop that he will give you or sell real cheap. A milling vise, rotary table, rotary indexer, endmills, etc, etc...

I have always fantasized about owning a mill and have wanted a Bridgport for 30 years.

If I can get this baby homed and operational I think I will be smart enough to figure it out.

Tooling is very expensive, bt I knew that going in.

I paid 2 grand for this puppy.

 

[Matt XYZ]

My Italian is a little, ok a lot, rusty but I did find several for sale in Europe for 7500-9000 Euro, or about $9000-10800. I couldn't find anything recent and it appears the company is no longer in existence, or at least in Milan. I also found more recent machines with some digital components. I found a different model from 1989 that claims to have Siemens motors. The newest one I could find was 2006 still made in Italy. http://www.utilmeccanica.com/catalogo/tipologia/fresatrice-deber-fu-2/

 

[paulsomlo]

You've already got some collets, you'll need a vise, some endmills, some parallels and an edge finder to start making chips. Then you can add in hold downs, dial indicators and all the other stuff at will.

Don't be put off if it's three phase - static converters are cheap, so are VFDs.

 

[Robert Haas]

You've already got some collets, you'll need a vise, some endmills, some parallels and an edge finder to start making chips. Then you can add in hold downs, dial indicators and all the other stuff at will.

Don't be put off if it's three phase - static converters are cheap, so are VFDs.

I kind of understand your posts

I don't know what an "edge finder" is

I think I know what the Static converter is(Converts my 240 Single Phase to 3 phase right?)

But what do I need a variable frequency drive for? Do I need to have a speed control on the motor? It seems logical and it is something I did to my lathe so maybe mills work better too.

Damn I am pretty much a babe in the woods right now. I am sure I will get up to speed eventually.

 

[Thumper68]

Yup I would say you are screwed, once you get it operational your entire work flow will change for the better. I have had my mill up and running for a few months now and I can not tell you how much of a difference it has made in how I approach projects.

The biggest down side I have found is that I have started to do more measuring with calipers knowing that I can get an exact fit because I have a machine that can work to those tolerances vs just good enough.

A good example is the belt grinder I am building, I have read every article and watched every video I was able to find and when doing the design I made decisions on the fact that I can make parts on the mill and lathe that will fit perfectly. over the last few days I have been doing some fit ups on it using plain washers as spacers, the final pieces will be made on the lathe for an exact fit.

The base for the belt grinder is another example, in the past I would have cut it as close as I could and then dressed it with a angle grinder or belt sander to get as close to square as I could, in this case I cut it close and then clamped it to the mill and got it perfectly square, needed no, but the fact that I could do it that way was enough to prompt me to do it anyway.

My drill press is now just a tool for quick non essential holes, if I want a perfect hole then it is the mill, 9 out of 10 I use the mill.

 

[paulsomlo]

I kind of understand your posts

I don't know what an "edge finder" is

I think I know what the Static converter is(Converts my 240 Single Phase to 3 phase right?)

But what do I need a variable frequency drive for? Do I need to have a speed control on the motor? It seems logical and it is something I did to my lathe so maybe mills work better too.

Damn I am pretty much a babe in the woods right now. I am sure I will get up to speed eventually.

No, you don't need a speed control on the motor, but sometimes it's not much more work to use a VFD for the phase conversion vs. a static converter. For now, just get the machine home and situated - in time, all will be revealed.

 

[larry_g]

Walked into a friends machine shop and saw this monster sitting in the back of the shop

It is a DEBER Milling machine, A universal swivel head ram type machine.


It looks like it has never been used.


The guy bought it at an auction and has not had a chance to set it up and is looking for literature on it. His boss said he can't keep it there so I said he should sell it to me. I was half joking and expected him to laugh me out of there. He didn't, Now I own it...

You've got yourself quite a machine there. Made in Italy for the american market. I have a French machine of similar heritage. Are your dials calibrated in inch or metric numbers? I also suggest going back to the seller and seeing if any additional parts are available such as arbors and the arbor support, which is important.

On the use of a VFD, I doubt that it will be a simple thing as I bet that machine has a few motors on it and a bank of control relays. A VFD is good for controlling a single motor but not so good for a multi-motor machine. A rotary phase converter will work better on multiple motor machines.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Thumper68]

+1 on the rotary phase converter, My Index mill has 2 motors, it was easy to make the decision on getting a rotary vs 2 vfd's. Also on the plus side for a rotary is that it is easy to wire it to many machines, vs a vfd only working on 1.

Check out American Rotary, my AR5 was just over $400 shipped and the directions on setting it up are great. I called them and talked to Jason, told him what I wanted to run machines motor HP and he got me the one that would do what I asked, shipped in less than a week.
Mine is sized to run both the mill (2 motors) and the lathe at the same time.

 

[ttpete]

From looking at the nameplates, I think you have a machine made for the US government. There is a National Stock Number (NSN) and a US Contract Number. The model number US-20 also points to this.

There's a chance that a government technical manual may exist. Run a search with the NSN and model number. I suspect it's been sitting in storage for 30 years and is either new or has very low run time. That set of Erickson collets look like they're brand new.

Here's a search result on the NSN:

https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/3417-00-238-7553

It's called out as a Universal milling machine. If this is true, the table will be able to swivel.

 

[Packard V8]

Re: Did I screw the pooch?

Well, in the past, it would have been her word against yours, but if recent events are any guide, her lawyer will be serving you any day now.

jack vines

 

[C_F]

Well, in the past, it would have been her word against yours, but if recent events are any guide, her lawyer will be serving you any day now.

jack vines

That's a good looking machine, I hope you have tons of fun with it in the near future.

 

[Robert Haas]

Hooked it up to power at the shop it was sitting at.

It runs so smooth, we think this has never been in use.

Got the full story on where it came from. The guy I bought it from bought it off his uncle. It has been in a storage unit for 15 years underneath a canvas cover. His uncle bought it at a military surplus auction at Fort Ord California when the base shut down. So it a Miltary spec. unit.

I am so dang lucky on this.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Yeah I've seen plenty of military surplus that was never used... Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

I was going to mention how it didn't look like any worn paint and the table looked flawless... It just looked dusty...

 

[Fueler]

VFD over the static converter every day. Been there done that.
You got more machine than you think. If it has that 30 or 40 taper spindle you are way ahead of conventional vertical mill.

 

[Fueler]

I just realized it looks like it has a built in Hoist. NOW.....you ****

I suppose it has some or all the axis powered? Then you really.....

and it has a horizontal spindle. geeze

 

[metalmad]

I was a sparky (electrician) in a previous pennance, can you see if you can find the data plate and post it (plate with the voltage and amperage on it - might say Imax, Ieff and 1~ or 2~ or 3~ )
Tidy looking machine, good find.
380V is 3 phase voltage in most of European mainland, UK was 415, We are technically harmonised with the European mainland, however 415 and 380V are within the technical standard tolerance, so no one did anything.....ditto for single phase voltage, they ran 220V, we ran 240V, harmonised on 230V and...once again no one changed anything..lol

 

[EOC_Jason]

I just realized it looks like it has a built in Hoist. NOW.....you ****

I suppose it has some or all the axis powered? Then you really.....

and it has a horizontal spindle. geeze

It's not a hoist, it's just a control panel (I was thinking it was a DRO myself). Someone posted a link to some current chinese models, you can see what it looks like on those.

 

[Robert Haas]

I was a sparky (electrician) in a previous pennance, can you see if you can find the data plate and post it (plate with the voltage and amperage on it - might say Imax, Ieff and 1~ or 2~ or 3~ )
Tidy looking machine, good find.
380V is 3 phase voltage in most of European mainland, UK was 415, We are technically harmonised with the European mainland, however 415 and 380V are within the technical standard tolerance, so no one did anything.....ditto for single phase voltage, they ran 220V, we ran 240V, harmonised on 230V and...once again no one changed anything..lol

We had it running this afternoon on pure 3 phase 240.

This was built for US Military spec so it is not built to comply with Euro or Asian specs.

All Dials and measurements are SAE and all wording is in english.

I have decided on using a Rotary phase converter. It will cost more initially but this machine deserves a clean constant source. (It will also not cut down the actual power available)

 

[PelicanPines]

Wow... congrats on the new project.

 

[ttpete]

I just realized it looks like it has a built in Hoist. NOW.....you ****

I suppose it has some or all the axis powered? Then you really.....

and it has a horizontal spindle. geeze

It's also a universal, so the table can be rotated horizontally.

 

[EOC_Jason]

It's also a universal, so the table can be rotated horizontally.

I'm having trouble picturing that, can you find a pic and link?

 

[ttpete]

I'm having trouble picturing that, can you find a pic and link?

It's not very common but think of a rotary table. The difference is that the X-feed is now also at an angle to the regular X-axis. It's now able to do precision tapers.

 

[larry_g]

It's also a universal, so the table can be rotated horizontally.

I've studied the pictures and cannot convince myself that is a universal table. I expect to see something rounded between the table and the knee. I have a universal table on mine. I'm waiting till I see better pictures of the front of the machine to make a call.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Beerman]

I don't mind admitting I'm ignorant- what EXACTLY will this machine help one do in a residential environment???