garfunkle24
Well-known member
I'm not being argumentative but I genuinely don't. Was your main point about torque characteristics being more dependent on bore/stroke ratio than fuel type?
Diesel vs. gas tractor?
- Thread starter 58Yeoman
- Start date
I'm not being argumentative but I genuinely don't. Was your main point about torque characteristics being more dependent on bore/stroke ratio than fuel type?
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Mainly, which is why I gave multiple examples and a link of long stroke spark ignition engines built similar to their diesel counterparts and how hp and torque even at low speed(under 2500 rpm) exceeded the numbers of their diesel counterparts.
garfunkle24
Well-known member
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I concede and stand corrected.
rburke65
Well-known member
I don’t believe that Simplicity has down pressure. I’ve owned 2 Kubota’s, both diesel. They are pretty much bullet proof.
Right now, I've got a Cub 782 that is a real horse for being 40 years old. I bought it with two 1 bottom plows, one 8 bottom disc, mower, and most of a cultivator. I sold one plow and the disc for almost half what I paid for the tractor. The manual snow plow from my Cub 108 fits this cub, but now I can raise it hydraulicly, but it still doesn't turn side to side.
Today, I bought two sweeps for the cultivator and used it to dig up the hard dirt next to a retaining wall in the backyard. I couldn't get the plow close enough to use it. This tractor wouldn't stop, it just kept going digging up the hardpack.
I've thought about painting it to make it look better, but it's still a bit quirky. My wife would never be able to drive it, though she does well with the 31 yo Craftsman (and her '18 ZT). I've got a slush fund from selling on ebay, and am thinking maybe these 70 yo bones need something nicer? I've already told the kids to not expect any money.
Today, I bought two sweeps for the cultivator and used it to dig up the hard dirt next to a retaining wall in the backyard. I couldn't get the plow close enough to use it. This tractor wouldn't stop, it just kept going digging up the hardpack.
I've thought about painting it to make it look better, but it's still a bit quirky. My wife would never be able to drive it, though she does well with the 31 yo Craftsman (and her '18 ZT). I've got a slush fund from selling on ebay, and am thinking maybe these 70 yo bones need something nicer? I've already told the kids to not expect any money.
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TractorJeff
Well-known member
I've got the same Craftsman! I guess I never thought about how old it is? That is my "Workhorse" for the yard. My bigger Tractors are not practical for general Yard work!
Well, it's settled...I went with gas. I'm getting a 2015 JD X738 with AWD, liquid cooled Kawasaki engine, hydrostatic trans, 54" deck and a new 54" snow blade for about the same as the Simplicity I was looking at. This one is four years older, but has so much more. Thanks for all the help, guys.
garfunkle24
Well-known member
I'm glad you found something you're happy with. I'll come back in 5 years for the ICE vs all-electric debate.
XJSuperman
Well-known member
Pics or it didn't happen Yeoman!
I'm not getting it until maybe next Wednesday. The salesman had just picked it up the night before, and it was sitting in the wash bay waiting to get cleaned up. They are also going to service it and make sure everything is working correctly. I'm lucky it has a 54" deck instead of the 60", but I would've been happier with the 48", as I have a very tight spot to get through. But I'm not using it for mowing anyway, just in one ditch by the road.
The pic I'm posting is one I've pulled of the 'net, though mine won't have a grass catcher on the rear. I'll post pix when I get it next week.
The pic I'm posting is one I've pulled of the 'net, though mine won't have a grass catcher on the rear. I'll post pix when I get it next week.
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captain14
Well-known member
So have you decided where to park the new tractor? Made room yet for it?
It's going into the shop, next to the 58 Chevy, after I move the Cub 782 and C-man GT18 outside under tarps til they're sold. Also moving outside is a vintage metal kitchen base cabinet that was sold a couple months ago, and not picked up yet. It will also be covered with a tarp.
DJF3
Well-known member
I think you should reconsider the snowblower. I have a long gravel driveway and I pack about the first three snowfalls into it, then snowblow. Last year was cold and dry, I acutally set up sprinklers to water it in and build a base. I have a very small Kioti with a front mount blower, and it works great. I can put down pressure on the blower and scrape very well.
On a side note with gas vs diesel, I found I used the tractor less in Sept and Oct. Grass doesn't need mowed, and there is no snow yet. When the cold and snow hit last year, I still had summer fuel and had a heck of a time getting it to run. This year, I have a jerry can of winter fuel in the shed. That will be going in next time I need fuel.
On a side note with gas vs diesel, I found I used the tractor less in Sept and Oct. Grass doesn't need mowed, and there is no snow yet. When the cold and snow hit last year, I still had summer fuel and had a heck of a time getting it to run. This year, I have a jerry can of winter fuel in the shed. That will be going in next time I need fuel.
farmall400
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2012
- Messages
- 304
You're going to love that thing, I have the diesel version and use it like crazy.
I'm sticking with gas, as I've not had a problem since I started using non-ethanol premium in all my small engines and two antique cars. I have three 5 gallon metal cans that have Stabil added to every fill up. This tractor won't do much mowing anyway, as it's going to be used to tow my small trailers, 5x8 landscape trailer around the yard and pushing snow. I might leave the deck on it and mow the front ditch by the road, as the ZT won't do it.
It will be my 'toy' just like the older ones were, but it's a very useful toy. They get used way more than my two antique cars, which maybe I should sell. They take up a lot of space and get used just a couple times a year.
BTW...I'm going to love that fuel injection. No more chokes. That JD started almost before the key was turned.
It will be my 'toy' just like the older ones were, but it's a very useful toy. They get used way more than my two antique cars, which maybe I should sell. They take up a lot of space and get used just a couple times a year.
BTW...I'm going to love that fuel injection. No more chokes. That JD started almost before the key was turned.
As I was talking with the salesman about the Simplicity, he said the people who traded it, bought it last November (2019) from a local dealer. After buying it and barely using it, they decided they wanted a front end loader. Since the Sim was two wheel drive, and they figured 4x4 would be better for an fel, they traded it on a slightly larger JD with 4x4 and an fel.
Sounds like the people who bought my '14 Tacoma new, and only put less than 7000 miles on it in 3 years. Worked for me.
Sounds like the people who bought my '14 Tacoma new, and only put less than 7000 miles on it in 3 years. Worked for me.
Farmall450
Well-known member
Does your 782 still have the KT17?
My 1711 just lost its KT17 Series II, and is getting a CH18S Kohler
My 1711 just lost its KT17 Series II, and is getting a CH18S Kohler
Yes, it does still have the series 2, and it's really running great. What happened to yours? When I bought mine, he had put on a new carb, but said the engine was blowing oil into the air cleaner. When I brought it home, the entire engine was full of oil, cylinders and crankcase. I'm going to hate to see it go.
Farmall450
Well-known member
Doug1
Well-known member
Just picked up a 2021 Massey Ferguson 1835MH with a deluxe cab. It's a Tier 5 diesel. I take it for it's first work today.
Threw the right rod (like the always do).
OUCH! Not cheap, but I guess it's going to be more reliable. I'd read on a couple other forums about repowering a 782. If I was going to keep this one, just about the time I repainted it, it'd blow the engine.
Doug1, post some pix of your tractor. Sounds like your might be a bit larger than mine. I used mine yesterday for hauling 1.5" stone for a landscaping job that we're doing here. That 10 cu.ft. trailer looked a bit small behind it. I think a 20 might be better.
givemethewillys
Well-known member
That's a beautiful mower you got there OP. I'm curious why you went with the x700 series vs the 1 series tractor. As far as I've seen, they're similar in cost, and the 1 series gives you a loader bucket. My dad is almost your age, and uses the heck out of his massey gc2300 on his 2 acre property. Even just turning over the compost pile or bringing a few cases of beers next door to my grandfather is easy when you throw it into the bucket!
nadogail
Well-known member
When I hear of somebody asking which is better, Gas or Diesel?
I look around at what is doing the work, the makers of heavy tractors switched from gas to diesel years ago. The makers of wanna be tractors are still using gas engines.
I look around at what is doing the work, the makers of heavy tractors switched from gas to diesel years ago. The makers of wanna be tractors are still using gas engines.
Busted_Knuckles
Well-known member
When I see this subject and when its clear we are talking lawn tractors or garden tractors, not sub compacts, I think of John Deere, mostly because of their wide offerings over the years including diesels.
When looking at used JD Lawn Tractors, I think its pretty clear which fuel is preferred. Im a long time and current owner of JD lawn tractors, Ive never owned a diesel because I could not afford it ( used that is ). The Yanmar powered JD's around here are so coveted, they are usually sold ( maybe even years ) before they come up for sale.
Food for thought...
I did own a JD 790, which is likely classified as a Compact Tractor, it was a rebranded yanmar, I think its the most reliable and well built thing Ive ever owned on wheels, and Ive owned ALLLLLLOT of ****... ( boats to combines to buggies to Class 8 trucks, to... )
Again, this tractor is used intermittently around the yard. If I was working it hard 8 hours a day, I'd go with a diesel. I just figured that I didn't need another fuel to worry about.
I have a JD and a Simplicity dealer within 5 miles of me, but neither had what I was looking for. Today, I'm making a mount for a hitch ball/pintle hook setup that I've had on my other tractors. Don't have anything with a pintle hookup, but it looks cool.
Jackfre, I have a 58 Chevy Yeoman 2dr wagon, the only year they used the name. I've had it since the late 80's, and 'refurbished' it myself, except for the interior. Seems anytime someone sees it, they call it a Nomad. Then I have to burst their bubble and tell them that ALL Nomads from 58 on were 4 doors.
I drove it off the mower deck today, and it was easy. Not as easy going back on. I'll have to practice more to keep the deck from sliding on the floor.
I have a JD and a Simplicity dealer within 5 miles of me, but neither had what I was looking for. Today, I'm making a mount for a hitch ball/pintle hook setup that I've had on my other tractors. Don't have anything with a pintle hookup, but it looks cool.
Jackfre, I have a 58 Chevy Yeoman 2dr wagon, the only year they used the name. I've had it since the late 80's, and 'refurbished' it myself, except for the interior. Seems anytime someone sees it, they call it a Nomad. Then I have to burst their bubble and tell them that ALL Nomads from 58 on were 4 doors.
I drove it off the mower deck today, and it was easy. Not as easy going back on. I'll have to practice more to keep the deck from sliding on the floor.
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TractorJeff
Well-known member
Sometimes I find these "Spirited" Threads informative!
Though I agree the whole Discussion on Gas verses Diesel didn't fit the OP's original Question!
If he wants and thinks he deserves a SCUT, then steer him into buying the machine he wants.
FWIW: Over the years I have pushed a lot of snow with a bucket, when it wont push anymore, pick it up and dump it!
Though I agree the whole Discussion on Gas verses Diesel didn't fit the OP's original Question!
If he wants and thinks he deserves a SCUT, then steer him into buying the machine he wants.
FWIW: Over the years I have pushed a lot of snow with a bucket, when it wont push anymore, pick it up and dump it!
My folks had a Simplicity Legacy they bought new in 2003. It came with the bucket and belly mower. I believe it has the 25hp Kohler gas engine in it.
Its was a mediocre mowing tractor, but they had 5 acres to mow and it took forever.
We used it for snow removal on their 3 car garage driveway and then the lane coming to the house. In total it was about 300’ long, I could have it done with just the bucket in 30-40 minutes.
Biggest issue was a lot of snow, you end up running out of places to push it.
They’ve still got the tractor and use it regularly still for gardening and landscape projects. Still on the original engine too.
Its was a mediocre mowing tractor, but they had 5 acres to mow and it took forever.
We used it for snow removal on their 3 car garage driveway and then the lane coming to the house. In total it was about 300’ long, I could have it done with just the bucket in 30-40 minutes.
Biggest issue was a lot of snow, you end up running out of places to push it.
They’ve still got the tractor and use it regularly still for gardening and landscape projects. Still on the original engine too.
finn
Well-known member
There’s a Kioti dealer 16 miles from you, and two more within 50-60 miles.
Nice story, though. That’s what makes the internet, I guess.
RPH
Well-known member
Well I have an older jd 401 with loader. Gas 65 hp 4 cylinder. This unit has shuttle shift and can move material quickly. But the fuel usage is extremely high. When working it ***** 7 gallons an hour. So we don’t run it much and only use it to move heavier items. I have a 65 hp David brown diesel that sips fuel when doing heavy field work. Night and day difference. Lawn mower died this week, now looking at kubota with front loader, 54” mower for the 4 acres of yard we have. I have run the neighbors cub cadet diesel all day long moving dirt. It sips fuel all day long. Diesel is a bit more trouble to use but it runs much nicer doing the work.
jblnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I meant 50, not 500
"stories" are what's wrong with the internet so no need for that from this guy.I just purchased a round baler and mower from A&C in Paynesville and although they are listed as a Kioti dealer they mostly deal with parts and sell new machines to fit a price point searched for by the cabin owing 5 acre people in the area. There was one new Kioti and over a dozen little New Holland SCT's on the lot.
There is nothing wrong with the more "off-brand" stuff out there for the right crowd. That's why it's priced where it is I guess. 30yrs down the road the OP will be able to find parts for that X700 series machine with zero hassle. That little Kioti we sold will be a "search the internet for parts" deal. Not a bad thing, just not something I have interest in doing again.
That new Deere sure looks sharp !!!
TractorJeff
Well-known member
QUOTE: "Well I have an older jd 401 with loader. Gas 65 hp 4 cylinder. This unit has shuttle shift and can move material quickly. But the fuel usage is extremely high. When working it ***** 7 gallons an hour."
7 gallons an hour seems kind of high?
7 gallons an hour seems kind of high?
finn
Well-known member
May be a little high, but not out of the question.
Considering that Diesels from that era would consume around .400- .410 lb/bhp-hr of diesel fuel at rated speed and load, the diesel cycle combustion efficiency advantage, and the fuel density difference between diesel and gas, the 7 gallon/hr for a 65 hp gas engine under heavy load is about right.
That's at rated hp. Like doing field work or something that takes a lot of power from the pto. It would be a lot less if you're just using it around the yard.
finn
Well-known member
Yup. Peak torque bsfc on the lug curve would be in the neighborhood of .365 lb/bhp hr on a diesel. The diesel fuel economy shines under light load, compared to the gas engine, since it runs as high as 100:1 a/f ratio, while the gas engine is always closer to 14.5:1 anywhere in the speed / load operating map.
It would, nevertheless, be pretty hard to burn 7 gallons an hour with a gas engine just puttering around the yard.
AngryBeaver
Well-known member
love my diesel lawn mower, diesel scut, converted diesel skid steer, diesel generator and trucks. Now if only the weed eater was diesel, I wouldn't have to buy gasoline. i'll never go back to gas screamer, even in a zero turn.