Difficult internet situation

[Jackfre]

I am installing a solar system on my shop. I should have the permit soon, but I have to have wireless to be able to get this system to work. I live in a third world country, meaning rural America. I have AT&T supplied internet. With a booster in the house I can't get wireless 30' away. The house is sided with the Hardi Artisan panel, which is a 5/8" thick siding and I think it is pretty effective at limiting signal. I can have good signal in the house, walk out the door 4' along the side of the place and zero. The shop is 100' from the house. The main power service drop is about 8' off the corner of the shop and the internet service wire is in conduit run underground. I love the siding on the shop. It is 22 ga corrugated 606a metal and I can't even get a decent fm signal in that place.
I need reliable internet to be able to operate & monitor the solar system. Currently, I am planning on putting a splitter on the main power pole and wiring it over to the shop. I will need a new modem I believe.
My questions is, will adding a splitter degrade the signal to the house? To what degree?
I am remarkably dim on this topic. How would you go about this?

 

[chinboys]

Don't do this Jackre. There exists point to point MESH wifi technology that will extend your home's wifi out to your shop. I like Ubiquiti products.
Or dig a trench and lay down cat 6 twisted pair (rated for underground use) cables form your existing cable module and wifi router to the shop terminating into another wifi spot or hub to connect your solar system plant to.

 

[kd3pc]

used ubiquiti for quite a while on the boat, and it has held up well. their support is great and they can do what you are trying quite reliably and at a good price point

 

[mike93lx]

You wouldn't use two modems unless you want to pay for two services.

You can run cat5 from the modem out to the shop, or install repeaters. Maybe one in your attic will extend coverage

 

[PWC Repair]

If you split signal on the incoming line BEFORE your router, then it will be 2 seperate internet service bills. You need to come off the existing house router and hardline it into the shop. Like suggested cat6 in conduit, or direct burial, to the shop then another wireless router IN the shop. That's exactly the way I have mine so we can still access the security cams.

 

[gtsgarage]

These guys have it. Run cat6 from the router to the shop to another router or satellite. I like Orbi. I’d first try an Orbi setup with a satellite. If they can’t talk to each other then I’d link them via Ethernet hard wire.

 

[bobj49f2]

Great discussion, I'm in basically the same position. My shop is a steel pole building, I can get an internet connection from my house but it's sketchy. The shop is about 40 feet from my house. My office is in the closest corner of the house to the shop. I have the ATT router sitting in between my window and the screen. It seemed doing this helped with the signal some but if I' at the back half of my shop I can't always get a signal.

The person I bought my house from was a thinker, at least at the time he remodeled the property in the early '80s and later. He had runs for phone lines and internet to all of the rooms in the house, these are useless now with cell phones and wireless internet.
He did however run underground conduits to all of the out buildings from the house. I have an empty conduit from my house to the shop so I can easily pull a cat6 line.

Here is what I have. I have the ATT wireless router (?)

View media item 101489
I have a Linksys router I used in my old house

View media item 101490
If I'm getting it correct I can use the Linksys unit in my shop and hook it to the ATT unit in the house.

 

[ericm]

We have Hardy Artisan siding. Even with two layers of the stuff between them, the Netgear Orbi satellite units in the house have no problem talking to the router in the garage attic. I don't know how well they'll do with steel siding though.

For mesh networks I like the Orbi stuff much more than the Ubiquiti system we have at work. It's easier to configure and does not require additional hardware to let you configure it without an app. I don't like the configuration apps as they require you to make an account on their server and they keep who knows what data there. Also the app based configurations dumb it down too far. Fortunately the Orbi router has a good old fashioned browser based configurator. I used to be a sysadmin so I'm comfortable diddling with all the settings.

For your shop there are wifi repeaters that have plugs for external antennas. You could put an antenna outside the shop walls. That would put the shop wifi also behind the same router/firewall. Your plan of splitting the cable (assuming it works, it might not with digital cable) would mean there's two separate networks for house and shop which can't interact without exposing ports to the internet.

 

[ericm]

@bobj49f2 yes you can do that, with a wired cat 6 connection from the house router to the linksys in the shop.

 

[mattlikesbikes]

We have a netgear extender (lots of versions, depending on range), that just plugs into an outlet. Sometimes it helps to just get the signal out past the walls of the house. We have one plugged in outside (not far from the modem, but on the exterior of the house) on a covered patio. We have crazy good internet outside now.

 

[vrinner]

I tried a two different mesh systems Netgear and Ubiquity and didn't have any luck getting signal INSIDE my building with all doors closed. It's a giant steel box that lets no signal in or out.

I currently have a switch inside my garage that my SolarEdge system, PC with hardwire and wifi card. I have a Netgear wireless router setup as an extender and it sits under a cardboard box just outside my garage about 60' from my home router. The Netgear cable goes into the garage into the above mentioned switch.

Not an ideal setup but it works until I run a dedicated network cable to the house.

 

[SGKent]

Great discussion, I'm in basically the same position. My shop is a steel pole building, I can get an internet connection from my house but it's sketchy. The shop is about 40 feet from my house. My office is in the closest corner of the house to the shop. I have the ATT router sitting in between my window and the screen. It seemed doing this helped with the signal some but if I' at the back half of my shop I can't always get a signal.

The person I bought my house from was a thinker, at least at the time he remodeled the property in the early '80s and later. He had runs for phone lines and internet to all of the rooms in the house, these are useless now with cell phones and wireless internet.
He did however run underground conduits to all of the out buildings from the house. I have an empty conduit from my house to the shop so I can easily pull a cat6 line.

Here is what I have. I have the ATT wireless router (?)

View media item 101489
I have a Linksys router I used in my old house

View media item 101490
If I'm getting it correct I can use the Linksys unit in my shop and hook it to the ATT unit in the house.

run a cat 6 cable from one of the yellow ports to the shop. You can buy a female wall box mount plate with the plastic punch down tool with it at home depot or lowes. Run into that and punch it down per the instructions. Do the same in the shop. Then buy pre-made cable - 3', 6' whatever you need to go from the box to an access point in the shop and you'll have wi-fi out there. Just configure the access point with a password so you don't have someone stealing your Internet from the street.

The OP can do the same.

 

[macwhiz]

What you want is a point-to-point wireless bridge. The Ubiquiti NanoStation series should do the trick, and you can get two for well under $200. These devices are designed to make a solid link of up to 10km. A building 100 feet away is easy. Even 200 feet away, you can run them at 10% power and have a rock solid connection.

You’ll mount the devices to the outside of the buildings, aimed at each other with a clear line of sight. You’ll run Ethernet cable (shielded, outdoor rated) from the device into the building. On one end, connect to your router. On the other, install a switch for wired devices and/or a WiFi access point. The devices use the Ethernet wire for power using a power injector, so just one cable.

This is superior to a mesh network for you. Meshes are for dealing with buildings, not between buildings. You won’t get good results with a mesh in this usage case.

(I’m an IT professional with extensive network experience, and I’ve implemented a WiFi bridge for my own shop outbuilding.)


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[iamrfixit]

What you want is a point-to-point wireless bridge. The Ubiquiti NanoStation series should do the trick, and you can get two for well under $200. These devices are designed to make a solid link of up to 10km. A building 100 feet away is easy. Even 200 feet away, you can run them at 10% power and have a rock solid connection.

You’ll mount the devices to the outside of the buildings, aimed at each other with a clear line of sight. You’ll run Ethernet cable (shielded, outdoor rated) from the device into the building. On one end, connect to your router. On the other, install a switch for wired devices and/or a WiFi access point. The devices use the Ethernet wire for power using a power injector, so just one cable.

This is superior to a mesh network for you. Meshes are for dealing with buildings, not between buildings. You won’t get good results with a mesh in this usage case.

(I’m an IT professional with extensive network experience, and I’ve implemented a WiFi bridge for my own shop outbuilding.)

Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

This!

I've used this same setup numerous times and it works flawlessly. On my own garage it was only about 50' but the ground was frozen and I needed to get my cameras connected. In 4-5 years I've never had a single problem with it. At a friends shop it was probably close to 600' and it also works perfect. When you're done this setup is just like having a long wire in place. Order 2, set them up, point them at each other and install an access point inside the shop.

Here's a video that will help to set them up.

 

[gungatim]

LGR!

 

[Hooked]

I may give the p-t-p bridge a try, thanks for the info. For the past 10+ years I've run a range extender (with external antennas) to my shop where it connects to a wireless router with external antennas. Both are sitting next to windows with line of sight so reception is good except during storms. However, the added bonus of service around our property would be very nice.

 

[Mirage]

This is EXACTLY what I did (and posted it before in the numerous threads on the subject). It works extremely well, and not only do I have perfect wi-fi inside with the wired router but the exterior one from the house also covers most of the acreage as well.

I used TP-Link, <$100 for everything. I don't know why more people don't go this route. it just works.

Loving my TP-Link CPE-210 setup as a repeater, was prepared to buy 2 and do the bridge but i'm getting good signal with just one blasting the signal in my detached garage.

 

[rharrison8]

I would recommend running a line to your garage and setting up a second router to use as an Access Point. If your ATT router is handing out IP addresses then you will want to disable dhcp in your router. Google setting up router behind ATT router.

I've done similar and it works well. In fact I changed 1 of the ports on the ATT router to be a DMZ to pass traffic to my primary router, and at the other end of the house is my second router which is used as an AP for wireless and a few hard wired connections.

It felt more safe having my computers behind my router that ATT wouldnt have access to, easily.

 

[Jackfre]

I have ordered the Ubiquiti Nanostation M5 kit. Onward through the fog...with you most capable assistance. Another question. What device will work best inside the shop behind the UB?

 

[Max]

This will shock you, but Ubiquiti makes a nice set of AP (Access Points) as well. Unless you want the shop on a subnet, there is no need for a router. If I remember right, the UAP-AC-LITE is about $80 and the UAP-AC-PRO is about $130. If it’s just phones out in the shop I’d get the LITE, if you want to move more data with laptops I’d get the PRO.

Ubiquiti has nice software that lets you configure your APs all together. The software can be a bit of a pain to get started on (at least for Linux which is what I use) but if needed we can walk you through it.

Some nice features of the APs:
- PPOE, so your ethernet cable also supplies power.
- Mount on a ceiling or wall, so your antennas are in a good location
- If you need multiple APs to cover your space, the APs will automagically hand you off to the one that has the best signal.

I chucked all of my routers (except the main firewall one) and went with ubiquiti APs. I now have high speed WiFi in every room and every floor of the house. Plus I have easy and integrated configuration and management of the APs. I am really pleased that I made the change, even with having to route the cat6 to feed them.

- Max

 

[Denwood]

For 100ft, and some reliability, the Nanobeam 5AC Gen2 is what you want for a wireless link to your shop. It will get you to about 50% the speed of a Cat5/6 network cable.

You need 2..one will be your "station" and the other your "remote". They come with nice little mounts to aim them.

They are POE so you just need one CAT5e or CAT6 LAN cable to each node. On the shop side, you can plug an WIFI access point directly into the Nanobeam and bob's your uncle.

I use these at work...cheap and reliable. Just youtube a few reviews and it will be a bit more obvious how it works. It can seem daunting at first..but they are actually not bad to set up.

We have a few commercial sites connected to each other with these units, including a system with redundant units (two links..one fails over to the other).

 

[dantecl]

What you want is a point-to-point wireless bridge. The Ubiquiti NanoStation series should do the trick, and you can get two for well under $200. These devices are designed to make a solid link of up to 10km. A building 100 feet away is easy. Even 200 feet away, you can run them at 10% power and have a rock solid connection.

You’ll mount the devices to the outside of the buildings, aimed at each other with a clear line of sight. You’ll run Ethernet cable (shielded, outdoor rated) from the device into the building. On one end, connect to your router. On the other, install a switch for wired devices and/or a WiFi access point. The devices use the Ethernet wire for power using a power injector, so just one cable.

This is superior to a mesh network for you. Meshes are for dealing with buildings, not between buildings. You won’t get good results with a mesh in this usage case.

(I’m an IT professional with extensive network experience, and I’ve implemented a WiFi bridge for my own shop outbuilding.)


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

I can confirm this is solid design, and would do the same if I had to. Also in the IT market.

 

[HotelMike]

I suffered from unreliable wifi in my garage. I got a TP-Link CPE210. Point and connect to your wifi router and now you have reliable wired network in the garage. Of course assuming the signal strength is there. I prefer this over a repeater solution, this is just my preference. Only about $40 + a switch compared to the Ubiquity solution above which I'd say is still a better or more correct way... choose just enough or overkill

 

[fattogatto]

If I'm getting it correct I can use the Linksys unit in my shop and hook it to the ATT unit in the house.

You will have two named services. One the ATT ID and the other the Linksys ID. Your phone should automatically switch to the closer one.

 

[Showkey]

You will have two named services. One the ATT ID and the other the Linksys ID. Your phone should automatically switch to the closer one.

Key word ......should.

Way too many variables.........Might auto switch to the strongest signal..........but that rarely works as well.

 

[BruceMc]

This is EXACTLY what I did (and posted it before in the numerous threads on the subject). It works extremely well, and not only do I have perfect wi-fi inside with the wired router but the exterior one from the house also covers most of the acreage as well.

I used TP-Link, <$100 for everything. I don't know why more people don't go this route. it just works.

I did the same recently, with the TP-link CPE210 @ $40 each. I connected to another building 500' away and blocked by a couple of connexes and maybe 75' of snow covered spruce trees, so no true line-of-sight. On the far end I've got two 4K IP cameras running at full resolution and frame rate, along with another local AP (which problem wasn't necessary afterall). With just a best-guess aim and no fine tuning, I'm getting a solid and stable 144Mbps. "Garage1" is the signal I'm getting off the far end --

 

[gungatim]

LGR!

 

[bobj49f2]

Today I finally got the system up and running. I bought a premade 100' Cat6 cable from Menards and pulled it through the conduit the previous owner had running from the house to the pole building. The previous owner was a forward thinking guy, he had conduits with pull strings from the house to the pole building, the barn and to the end of each driveway, one about 300' the other about 200' for camera wires.

Anyways it wasn't as easy as just hooking the cable between the ATT modem and the Linksys router. I misplaced the CD that came with the router but no problem, I was able to down the set up program from the manufacturers website. That didn't do the trick. The last time I used the router was at my old house using Warner cable. I couldn't get anything to work so I called my brother who is a lot better at computer stuff than me. It took us a few hours to figure what needed to be entered into each components set up program but finally it worked.

 

[ard]

I couldn't get anything to work so I called my brother who is a lot better at computer stuff than me. It took us a few hours to figure what needed to be entered into each components set up program but finally it worked.

Good to hear.

Buy Tech Support some beers and a steak!

 

[rayra]

I'd go with a buried Cat6 or Cat5e run to the structure, an inexpensive wifi router inside the shop as an extender and an addition wireless antenna cable to it to the outside of the building where the solar wifi can connect to it. That gets you wifi inside the shop building and on the side of the building you mount the external antenna on. And if you put that antenna at the apex of the roof and even higher, wifi all over the area around the building.

 

[NZGarage]

Hi,
From the wireless modem you have run a cat6 Ethernet cable to the closes point in your house to the new shed then connect to an Apple Airport Extreme.

This will give you the best dual band wireless wifi that just works and has Apple reliability and also Apple help line if you need free advise on setting pass words etc.

I use the older flat one with no internal hard drive they are cheap and reliable, it does not interfere with the other wifi modem signal.

Like this one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-AirP...3e6c:g:U8UAAOSw9h5eZJOY&LH_ItemCondition=3000

 

[bobj49f2]

Good to hear.

Buy Tech Support some beers and a steak!

It works both ways, I do mechanical work for him because hes not very good at it

 

[bobj49f2]

OK, I didn't quite have the system working as good as I thought, had a few bugs.

Everything seemed to be working OK until my son wanted to watch TV using his Xbox in his bedroom. He couldn't connect to the internet. I could connect to the net using my desk top computer and my TV using Roku without a problem. I pulled the cable from the Linksys router out of the back of the ATT gateway and after a minute or two everything worked fine. Plugged the cable back in and still was working fine.

Next day everyone in the house started complaining again about not being able to access the net using their wireless devices. I couldn't get email on my phone but the desk top computer and Roku still worked fine. Then I found I couldn't access my email on my desk top either and I had to send a quote to a customer. Pulled the cable from the router again and I could get mail on the computer and on my phone again. I called Linksys and was placed on a call back list. About 45 minutes later I get the call back and spend the hour and half on the phone with a young lady from some third world company. She had me unplugging cables and plugging in cables out and into different ports. Finally she put me on hold and got advice from a supervisor. They had me pull up the configuration pages on the computer. I had been going to IP address 192.168.1.1, which was the correct address to use to bring up the configuration page. They had me change the address to 192.168.2.1 and all seems fine. The explanation I was told is the router and the gateway was using the same IP address, the gateway wasn't able to issue a new address on it's own so it had to be manually changed. What a PIA.

 

[SGKent]

Do you have a modem / router from your ISP, and then you added another router in the other building?

 

[bobj49f2]

Do you have a modem / router from your ISP, and then you added another router in the other building?

Yes, ATT refers to their modem/router as a "portal".

 

[SGKent]

Yes, ATT refers to their modem/router as a "portal".

Sounds like ATT modem is a combination modem and router. It has the public IP (WAN) on one side, and your private IP (LAN) on the other. (Wide Area Network and Local Area Network). The most commonly used LAN subnet as delivered is 192.168.1.0 which is a non-used address on the Internet side. When you added a second router it was originally configured with the same subnet so it is like two houses on the same street with the same address. Mail goes to the wrong house. But you also added a second firewall when you added the second router, which separates the two networks so equipment in the garage is not easily going to be able to talk to equipment in the house, although you may not have a need for that. It is called double nating, which slows things and can cause issues down the line. NAT is the way the firewall works. If that was your intent Ok. If not then you could have come out of an Internet side port on the ATT router, and added an ACCESS POINT if you needed WIFI in the garage. If you also have hard wired (cat 5 or cat 6) things in the garage, you could use the Access Point if it had extra ports on the back, or you could add a switch (not a hub). A switch is usually 5 port to 24 ports. Both the Access Point and the switch would be using the same network that ATT is providing, and there would be no need for additional configuration beyond adding the password etc on the Access Point. A switch doesn't need additional configuration although some have settings which can be turned on to limit how much bandwidth certain items can use. Top image is how it sounds like you set it up based on whomever gave you info. The bottom is how I would have set it up for a client. NOTE: Many "Access Points" sold have a router in them but there is a checkbox in the setup that allows one to turn the router feature off and only use it as an Access point.

View media item 102521

 

[bobj49f2]

I am looking to have Wifi to be able to use my Ipad and cellphone to access the net and retrieve email. I also want to connect two computers to share files. My office computer in the home office has all of my business files including CAD drawings, I want to access files pertaining to my business, component documentation (.pdf files) and drawings (both .pdf and .dwg) I haven't try accessing or transferring files yet.

The way I have it set up is the top drawing, are you saying I won't be able to access and transfer files with this set up?

 

[SGKent]

I am looking to have Wifi to be able to use my Ipad and cellphone to access the net and retrieve email. I also want to connect two computers to share files. My office computer in the home office has all of my business files including CAD drawings, I want to access files pertaining to my business, component documentation (.pdf files) and drawings (both .pdf and .dwg) I haven't try accessing or transferring files yet.

The way I have it set up is the top drawing, are you saying I won't be able to access and transfer files with this set up?

not directly between the house and garage unless you upload them to a 3rd party on the Internet and down load from there. You've added a firewall between the house and garage. You could build routing tables but that would be a pain. If you will put the model Linksys down I will look up the manual and see if it can be used as just an access point. The netgear AC2000 for example has a router in it too but it is turned off by default. That way it is on the same network as the house. You'll share a folder on one computer, and then reach that folder from the other computer. Or you can leave it as is, upload the files to the Internet and down load using the other computer. The downside is CAD files are large. A good friend has a surveying business and the CAD files today are 3D, there are drone shots and the files are huge.

 

[bobj49f2]

The Linksys unit is a WRT54GL v1.1.

The CAD drawings I deal with are 2D, wiring schematics, 2 to 50 pages and control panel layout drawings. They are large files but I'm sure nothing like the ones your friend deals with.

I appreciate the advice. I haven't tried to access files between the two computers yet. I have my shop torn apart painting it while I'm dead in the water because of the shut downs, hopefully all will pick up soon.

 

[SGKent]

the wiki on them indicates that model V1.1 was released in 2005. I have tossed out all those older models because for some internal reason they act as bottle necks as they age. The chip overheats from what I have read, and over time the performance falls. We had one from that era at the network my surveyor friend owns that I manage for him, and I had one at home too - might have been the same model as yours, but the data thru put really went up a lot when we replaced them. They were choking the data down. Linksys may still make them, I don't know but if they did it would probably have more letters on it or a later V number. Is this one you just bought new?

The last English firmware update was 1/22/2016 version 4.30.18 (build 6). You might look at the status page to see what firmware it has and make sure it is at least updated if Linksys didn't already walk you thru it. We can discuss it if you aren't comfortable with that. I will get the manual and study it after lunch. Just got back from Sam's Club and seeing my welder to have some work done on some air cooled engine parts. Washed hands, filled the small alcohol bottle again after using it liberally while out, and now to fix a small late lunch. This SARS thing is a real pain.