Digging for retaining wall next to hedge.

[NDJ]

I want to create a parking spot right close to edge of my property. Due to the grade, I will need to put a retaining wall there about 2 feet high to allow leveling the area. The whole city block is on a slope . On the next door lot, there is a row of cedar hedge trees about 1 foot away from my property line. I had a guy lined up to dig down for the wall base, But he thinks it will cut off the roots of the neighbours hedge and possible kill them. Any one done any thing like this ?

 

[wssix99]

You should search the shrub or tree. Roots don't extend too far beyond the canopy, so you may not have a big issue. If you are close to the root ball, the roots should adjust.

 

[BillK]

How close to the trees will you actually be digging ??

 

[Nthill93]

Who gives a ****. You can dig on your property all you want.

 

[Firebrick43]

Who gives a ****. You can dig on your property all you want.

LOL, its not in the USA, in fact, bring and excavator on your property without a permit just to play and see how long before your neighbors call the building department. In NY I bet it would be pretty soon

 

[BillK]

Who gives a ****.

A good neighbor does.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Who gives a ****. You can dig on your property all you want.

And this is the attitude that gets people into trouble. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. If you have to live next to people, best not to make enemies out of them just because you can.

If my neighbors had no concerns then so be it, but if they had any concerns that it would harm the hedge, and I planned to live there for a while, no way would I go near it just to pave a parking spot. Sorry but life is too short for neighbor drama like that over a patch of dirt.

 

[ace10]

Nobody here can see your proposed project and your details are scant. So here's all I got.


First, are you absolutely certain of the property line?
Second, in order to not be a jackknob like one of the previous posters, I suggest contacting an arborist who can do an on-site assessment of the project with respect to properly identify the neighbor's shrubs and giving an opinion on their survivability.
If the excavator has concerns, then you need to heed them.

Finally, if you really want to get the project done and the shrubs aren't likely to survive, then you need to have a conversation with your neighbor BEFORE you break ground. Again, we don't know the size or type of shrubs. They might be inexpensive, fast growers that are easily replaced. It's also possible that digging them and reinstalling after is an option. Heck, the neighbor might not even like them.

Are the shrubs screening something on his property that you don't want to see?

 

[ace10]

Edited.

You must be a real treat IRL. Can only imagine what you've got going on in your special corner of the world.

I've got a neighbor like you... he's put a bunch of rubble to block a culvert from my property to his. He uses the same logic and has the same level of people skills.... "It's muh property"

 

[PoorUB]

Who gives a ****. You can dig on your property all you want.

LOL! Glad i don't live next to you. But i hate to say it, you are correct. If you built a retaining wall on your property and the neighbor's hedge died I am not sure thare is much they could do about it. I suppose they could sue you after all, you can sue someone for pretty much anything.

Personally I would check with the neighbors, confirm the property line and go ahead.

 

[NDJ]

Well I guess this thread is going to get locked and that will be the end of the advice. This was probably the wrong place anyways.
I am certain of the property line as I am referencing from in iron survey pin at the corner.
The hedge is "Thuja" cedar species, Probably decades old and dense, gives good privacy between our lots. I get along with the neighbour and dont want to endanger that. Lot is only 40 feet wide so I need every inch.

 

[Bucko]

First I would talk with the neighbor and explain what I was going to do and see just how they feel about the shrubs. They may just say they don't care and had wanted to do something else there anyway. Then you have done your part.

If they planted them that close to the line then they were not really considering your property since it will eventually grow into your yard.

In the end it will either be no issue or it will be but its your property.

 

[ace10]

Well I guess this thread is going to get locked and that will be the end of the advice. This was probably the wrong place anyways.
I am certain of the property line as I am referencing from in iron survey pin at the corner.
The hedge is "Thuja" cedar species, Probably decades old and dense, gives good privacy between our lots. I get along with the neighbour and dont want to endanger that. Lot is only 40 feet wide so I need every inch.

Arborvitae have very shallow, spreading type roots. If the shrubs are massive and the branches have spread over the property line, then the digging is definitely going to be in the root zone.

An expert might be able to suggest if root pruning is a viable option while they're still dormant.

 

[BillK]

Is there any way to do it without having to dig ? A couple of pictures would really help. Maybe someone could come up with a better suggestion.

 

[NDJ]

OK. Heres a pic. The 2x2 is sitting right on the property line. The trimmed side of the hedge actually overhangs my property about 6" . Its about 12-14" from the property line to the 'trunks' of the hedges at the base. I did some exploratory diggin on the right side of pic and only found that one thick root near the surface. Ground is hard to dig by hand here, lots of potato sized rocks. I presume I will need to go down further to get below topsoil for wall base

 

[LeonardY]

Sounds like you have a good neighbor.
The right way is to check with them and check with the city.
You mention the whole block is on a slope. There may be restrictions.

I know that in my area a 2 foot garden wall does not need a permit. But if cutting into an engineered slope requires one.

 

[kelpaso1]

Who gives a ****. You can dig on your property all you want.

Glad you are not my neighbor.

Like was mentioned, get an arborist to look at the situation and see what he says.

 

[ace10]

The rocks are a definitely a challenge.

I'm in the middle of a hand transplant of a weeping Norway Spruce. Last winter I pruned the roots with a spade like this, sharpened.

https://www.razor-back.com/tool/shovels-and-scoops/2451700-15-in-industrial-all-steel-spade/

The roots are sliced off cleanly, rather than ripping them with an excavator bucket. Doing it while the plant is dormant, should be better than during the growing season.

 

[lkjk]

Well I guess this thread is going to get locked and that will be the end of the advice. This was probably the wrong place anyways.
I am certain of the property line as I am referencing from in iron survey pin at the corner.
The hedge is "Thuja" cedar species, Probably decades old and dense, gives good privacy between our lots. I get along with the neighbour and dont want to endanger that. Lot is only 40 feet wide so I need every inch.

Good on you for being a good neighbor and not listening to the clowns. Thujas take forever to grow, and are really good for privacy, worth saving

 

[NDJ]

Sounds like you have a good neighbor.
The right way is to check with them and check with the city.
You mention the whole block is on a slope. There may be restrictions.

I know that in my area a 2 foot garden wall does not need a permit. But if cutting into an engineered slope requires one.

I have checked into bylaws. No permit required for retaining wall under 4 feet. I have talked with neighbour about trimming and cutting on my side, he is ok with it. The hedge is nearly 100 ft long and has not been maintained well (pruned back) by previous owners (on both sides) . I had to cut it back to bare branches in one area where it was 3+ft over my side and he was OK with that. I am sure he likes the hedge, as do I, for privacy reasons.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Who gives a ****. You can dig on your property all you want.

1. I feel sorry for your neighbors.
2. I'm glad you aren't my neighbor.
3. Stay there, do not move here!

 

[nadogail]

Because the project in discussion is not located in the USA, what we take for granted may not be the norm where the project is located.

i am of the opinion that a discussion about the project with the neighbor may head of an expensive battle which may end causing years of bitterness. Good neighbors can be a treasure and bad ones will definitely become a problem that can take a lot of money and years of time to resolve. N

 

[nadogail]

I meant t suggest you attempt to avoid a battle with your neighbor

 

[FredWanaker]

in many states if you kill a neighbors tree thru negligence you are responsible for the damages. Digging down where you know there will be roots that will kill a tree is considered negligence. It is one of those weird things that none of us but lawyers and judges understand. Kinda like a the trees were there first thing. The only ways I know around it are (1) talk with the neighbor and get an agreement it is Ok. (2) when the trees are small don't let the roots and branches grow onto your property (3) get an attorney and see if a judge will agree with you. Sorry. See the articles below.

You have the legal right to trim tree branches up to the property line. But you may not go onto the neighbor's property or destroy the tree itself. In almost every state, a person who intentionally injures someone else's tree is liable to the owner for two or three times the amount of actual monetary loss. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/trees-neighbors-faq.html

 

[mikedodge]

It's a risk whoever planted the hedge took putting it there. If you're allowed to put a retaining wall and driveway that close to the property line it shouldn't stop you from making use of your property. It would be bit surprising tho if they allow you to change the grade like that.

Why not make your driveway at that level and put the retaining wall on the other side of the driveway? Were in the same situation and that's how ours is.

 

[FredWanaker]

It's a risk whoever planted the hedge took putting it there.

No really. If you kill a tree someone else has on their property the odds are you will lose if they take you to court. The key word is Kill. You can cut roots but it has to be done in a way that does not kill the trees. If the trees are a public hazard, or public nuisance you can call the city and they will condemn them. We just went thru that here with a pine that was leaning over the street, and we became concerned. City made the owner cut it down.

 

[ace10]

Found this relevant excerpt of an excerpt, regarding Canadian case law:

"Following Lemmon v. Webb the law of nuisance caused by trees is quite clear 32. When encroaching branches or roots are not causing damage to the adjoining property, but are causing a nuisance by preventing the reasonable enjoyment of the land, the owner of the land encroached upon has the right to exercise a self help abatement option. That is, they may prune back the roots or branches to the property line without giving notice to the owners of the trees (although prudence suggests it may be wise to at least notify the neighbour of the intention to prune). (Freedman v. Cooper, 2015.) As long as the offending tree is not a boundary tree as defined in Chapter 3, and there is not a local bylaw or other form of statute prohibiting this type of work, then the self help option is available."

OP, the linky has a ton of good info regarding various situations. It goes into screening and trespass and self help.

Thursday Thinkpiece: Trees and the Law in Canada - Slaw

Periodically on Thursdays, we present a significant excerpt, usually from a recently published book or journal article. In every case the proper permissions have been obtained. If you are a publisher who would like to participate in this feature, please let us know via the site’s contact form...

www.slaw.ca

I think the question is whether the construction of a retaining wall is "reasonable enjoyment of the land" or something else.

Talking with the neighbor will go a long way. And, as I've suggested, good horticultural practices may prevent permanent damage or loss of the hedge.

Good luck.

 

[gregs]

I would discuss it with the neighbor. You may be able to contact someone in an Ag extension that could tell you a little more about the plant and its root system. It may be a situation of root pruning and it wont affect it at all. The other thing is you may want a better understanding of the root system and how it will affect your wall in the future.

 

[mikedodge]

No really. If you kill a tree someone else has on their property the odds are you will lose if they take you to court. The key word is Kill. You can cut roots but it has to be done in a way that does not kill the trees. If the trees are a public hazard, or public nuisance you can call the city and they will condemn them. We just went thru that here with a pine that was leaning over the street, and we became concerned. City made the owner cut it down.

The roots under your property can't affect what you can and can't do. If someone has a big tree with roots spreading across an empty lot you buy to build on those roots are coming out whether the tree likes it or not. It happens all the time.

" a person who intentionally injures someone else's tree is liable to the owner for two or three times the amount of actual monetary loss." Is meant towards a person who intentionally kills a tree by going on someone else's property to damage or posin it, not someone who is doing work on their own property.

A lot of tees are pretty forgiving with roots being cut as long as it's not the majority of them.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Green Giants have a dense "ball type" root system that generally doesn't extend past the canopy. As opposed to most other conifer type trees that have a "tap root".

But, as others have said- talk to the neighbor. Maybe even make an agreement. If any die, you'll replace with same of similar caliper- if available.

 

[kj_mustang]

I have checked into bylaws. No permit required for retaining wall under 4 feet.

Does the county/town have any zoning setback requirements for lot sidelines that apply to a retaining wall?

 

[dcg9381]

OP, know what your set back is on that side? driveway (flatwork) might be one thing. Retaining wall might be another.

 

[NDJ]

To repeat, in my area, No permit required for wall under 4 feet. The only setbacks in bylaw apply to distance of buildings from the proprty line( Setback is 4ft on side lot lines). Being on side of a hill, There are many lots here around me where the property lines are stepped with retaining walls. Some are above that 4 ft limit, So if built today, would need permitting. Dont need a permit for concrete or paving either. Can pave the entire lot line to line.

As a side note, There is a local tree protection bylaw. It applies to trees 8" dia at the trunk or greater. In that case, If you are applying for a building permit for whatever, The city makes you come up with a plan to preserve such trees, even if they are not on your property. Example, a short distance from me, There is a large (80 feet high) douglas fir on one lot only a few feet from the property line. Developers on the lot next door had to modify their digging plan to not come within about a 20 foot radius of that tree. Its marked off with a red fence line on their side, "No dig zone"