digging frozen ground

[mrpowderkeg]

Friday night through Saturday it rained, then snowed. I started digging my utility trench Friday night, Saturday it was too bad and resumed on sunday. I have 30 feet left, but the ground is froze 3 inches down. Where the snow covered the ground, it was still easy digging. How can I get the area to thaw where I need to dig? I did take the bobcat and dumped some snow over the area where the trench needs to be dug last night, I hope it stops any warmth from being blown away, and if I am lucky maybe thaw from the ground up?

I have some options though. I will try an take my gas powered saw with a diamond blade and slice a 1 foot wide path on each side where my ditch needs to be, and slice the 1 foot wide area in to strips, I think then I will be able to pry the frost out.

If worse comes to worse I will bring my backhoe out. I am so close to being done, that if the frost wasn't there I'd have an hour left to dig this. Do you think the snow will help? It has gotten down to single digits here at night, but will be in the 30s and lower 40s this weekend.

 

[Steevo]

I don't understand why you are digging by hand if you have a backhoe?
You could lose your man card for that

I think the rule is:
Always apply the biggest, most powerful machinery you have to the task at hand.
I think Tim Allen said that . . .

 

[Bobf]

Way back when I carried newspapers I walked past a cemetery each morning and would see they had spread glowing charcoal over the area they would need to dig a grave the next day. This was in MN and in the it did get cold.

 

[Kevin54]

Friday night through Saturday it rained, then snowed. I started digging my utility trench Friday night, Saturday it was too bad and resumed on sunday. I have 30 feet left, but the ground is froze 3 inches down. Where the snow covered the ground, it was still easy digging. How can I get the area to thaw where I need to dig? I did take the bobcat and dumped some snow over the area where the trench needs to be dug last night, I hope it stops any warmth from being blown away, and if I am lucky maybe thaw from the ground up?

I have some options though. I will try an take my gas powered saw with a diamond blade and slice a 1 foot wide path on each side where my ditch needs to be, and slice the 1 foot wide area in to strips, I think then I will be able to pry the frost out.

If worse comes to worse I will bring my backhoe out. I am so close to being done, that if the frost wasn't there I'd have an hour left to dig this. Do you think the snow will help? It has gotten down to single digits here at night, but will be in the 30s and lower 40s this weekend.

I don't understand why you are digging by hand if you have a backhoe?
You could lose your man card for that

I think the rule is:
Always apply the biggest, most powerful machinery you have to the task at hand.
I think Tim Allen said that . . .

That's sort of a no brainer. If momma ain't holding your man card for you, get the 'hoe out and get'r done. Hell, if I had a backhoe, I wouldn't even own a shovel except for planting tulip bulbs.

 

[5lima30]

How about using a propane "weed dragon" torch? I use mine in the winter to de-ice walks etc. Good Luck!

 

[bczygan]

Anything that insulates it. The snow does this.
Alternatively, if it is going to be sunny, use a black tarp or plastic sheeting or even garbage bags to soak up the sun's heat.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

Yeah I know man card thing, but By the time I drive the machine out I'd be done if it wasn't froze. I have over 100 feet done already, so close but so far. I have been doing this at night since it gets dark at 5pm now. I will see how it goes and if needed I will have to get the backhoe... The ground is pretty dark the way it is, nearly black. I will see since the sun is out what is thawed out more, the insulated trench spot or the stuff in the open. If it wouldn't have rained and then froze I'd be good.

 

[signcrafter]

I like the charcoal idea to thaw it out. Couldn't you use a Mattock to tear threw the top couple inches if that's the only part giving you trouble? Couple good swings and then the shovel should be able to do the rest I would think. https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS408US408&q=mattock. Go rent a bosch electric jack hammer if you odn't have one and get the shovel bit, it will shovel threw that frost no problem very quickly and then clean out the trench with hand shovel. https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=lI6iUMroI6bH0AG_gIHwCg.

But I have to ask like everyone else, why if you have a backhoe! Even if it takes time to drive it out of the garage how much time are you spending on thinking about all this and trying to work around an answer you already have? Grab a few beers and fire up the backhoe and get out there and get it done! You say "I would be done if the ground wasn't frozen", but you can also say I am done with running the utilities if you just got the backhoe out and go to town.

 

[Sureshot]

If covering with snow does not thaw it from the bottom try a trouble light. I also got caught at this time of year in a similiar situation. I covered the area and put a 100w bulb in the area overnight. I was shocked how good it worked. I am thinking you could put 2x's or 4x's along side the strip then put a tarp or something over and snow on the edges to skeep the heat in. In my case the trench was open but froze before I was finished and needed to deepen. If I remember right I put plywood over the had dug trench.

We used the coal thing years ago to hand dig a pipeline that had no tracer wire. We layed the coal in a strip and put some diesel on it and lit it. We then covered the strip with half barrels to hold the heat in. This thawed several feet in a day or two. It was many years ago when I was the shovel operator and don't remember much else about it.

 

[pop pop]

You better dig fast. It will be frozen down a foot before you know.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

Yes sir, everyone was telling me I have a few more weeks. I though differently, and I'm glad I got going on it.

 

[Professur]

If it's froze on top and you're digging a trench ... undercut from the side. Once the dirt underneath is gone, the top will collapse.

 

[Gary S]

You must be new to these parts if you expect to be digging in unfrozen ground this time of year. Get your advice from someone who knows. I've been here 60 years, and the average time of ground freezeup is around Nov 1.
We have a lot of transient fools here these days who think they are in Texas or Oklahoma yet, but we are working on educating them. Winter seems to do a good job of that.

 

[KPSquared]

Big pile 'o' hot coals will do the trick. Get them burning, keep them burning overnight and you'll be digging away in no time.

Still not sure why you're not using the back-hoe in the first place. . .

 

[RCStocker]

Check with the code in your area. gas lines and electric lines can't be layed in the same trench. You need to be down 18 inches or more by code and you an't do that by hand faster than you can dig it with a back-hoe.

The question is why you did not do it during the supper? Hello!

 

[mrpowderkeg]

I've been here my whole life, pops was an excavator, hence the access to equipment. I'll will get the backhoe and go at it Wednesday. I wanted to get it in sooner, but had to push to get the roof on first. Once the utilities are in, the tough stuff is done.

 

[RPH]

Back in my younger day's used to dig graves by hand in northern Michigan. The old guy that taught me his technique was to get under the frozen part by undermining it. Then break off big frozen pieces. Those you would trow out by hand. By the time you got the hunks out, grave was darn near done. It would freeze to 5 foot. Hardest part was chisling first hole to the soft stuff.

 

[motorcycle79]

U could use a pick axe, demo hammer, light a Bon fire on top, or get the back hoe out, or wait till spring. I would have dug the whole thing with the back hoe already

Oh u could also get a ground thawing machine

 

[DHS]

I am a native Floridian (never even seen snow) but I heard you could spread hay out thick and it would thaw it enough to dig. I dunno if its true but that is what I heard.

 

[MN BIANCHI]

It is going to be warm and sunny in Bismarck on WED. Close to 40 degrees, so you should be good.

Many years ago I started a building in early December after having a very cold November. The first backhoe was not big enough to break thru the frost even with a frost tooth. The excavating contractor brought in his biggest backhoe and a D7 Cat to get the job done. The backhoe would pick up a very large chunk of frozen ground with the help of the Cat. Then they would drop it back into the hole to break the large chunks into something that would fit in the bucket. The truck drivers did not appreciate huge chunks of earth being dropped into there trucks.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

Covering it did not help, it actually insulated it enough where it stayed froze, while yesterday all the bare earth that was not covered thawed. So It is uncovered, and tonight I will finish the job. Also I spoke with all utilities, and the electrical and gas can be in the same trench, the electrical first, seperated by 10 inches of earth, then gas at a min of 18 inches.