Disapointed with Armstrong ratchets

[RCsGarage]

I purchased both ratchets from Advance a few years back;
1/4" (10-994)
3/8" (11-994).


The 1/4" started locking up on me on more than one occasion. I can't turn the on / off lever and the tang is just locked in place. After several tries it will fix itself but will lock back up a few minutes later. It's a sealed head so I can't service it.

Then last night I was changing the rotors & pads on my wife's car and while removing one of the caliper bracket bolts the back of the lever locking piece on the 3/8" broke off and damaged the head rotating gears. I wasn't using a cheater bar so I don't know why it broken so easily?


I just spoke with Advance and they said they will warranty the 3/8" but I will have to buy a new 1/4" since it's only warranted for a year?? I looked on Armstrong's site and they say all of their tools have a lifetime warranty.

I called Apex (Armstrong) and since I don't have a Fastenal store in my area they said I could bring them into Sears and they would take the tools and Apex would send me new ones. That's great customer service but I'm a DIY'er, neither ratchet has seen a hard life so it's time for some new ratchets.

I'm looking for a 11-12" length 3/8" and a smaller length 3/8". For the smaller I'm leaning towards the F80, that way if it breaks I can fix it myself but what's a good size 11-12" 3/8" ratchet? After seeing how fragile the locking mechanism is on the Armstrong I'm a little hesitant to go with another locking one. I'm not looking for soft or hard handles, just straight chrome bodies. Any recommendations?

 

[KM223]

Go get yourself a couple of Snap On ratchets and buy once cry once. Never worry about it again.

 

[anndel]

Go get yourself a couple of Snap On ratchets and buy once cry once. Never worry about it again.

+1

 

[gdocktor3]

What do you mean its a sealed head and you can't fix it????? All ratchets are serviceable.

 

[RCsGarage]

Go get yourself a couple of Snap On ratchets and buy once cry once. Never worry about it again.

I agree, that's why I'm going w/ the F80.
Does SO make a locking version FLF80A?

Armstrong no longer exists, they were just eliminated. I would suggest getting them fixed or warrantied out as quickly as you can and then switch to something else if you are not happy with them because there will likely be no parts for them available within a short time. You can always put a GW 84 tooth rebuild kit in them, but there isn't a repair kit that I know of for the locking hinge. The GW locking ratchets aren't the same as Armstrong in that regard.

I know, I'm heading to Sears this evening.

 

[KM223]

I agree, that's why I'm going w/ the F80.
Does SO make a locking version FLF80A?



I know, I'm heading to Sears this evening.

I think it's the FX80.

 

[RCsGarage]

OP, I forgot to mention, I don't know what you mean about the 1/4 ratchet having a sealed head. Both of those ratchet heads can be taken apart easily with a pair of snap-ring pliers. Use the snap-ring pliers to remove the visible internal snap-ring (on the square drive side of the head). Once you do that the guts just drop out easily.

In terms of a good alternative, a Snap-on FX80 would be the closest match for your Armstrong. Locking flex head 80 tooth ratchet that's about 11-12 inches long total.

You're right about it being serviceable, I wasn't thinking.

I'll check ebay for the FX80...thanks for your help!

 

[RCsGarage]

I think it's the FX80.

Thank you!!

 

[T45]

Its funny how many armstrong reviews are so positive, when we all know these designs show this flaw repeatedly from what I can tell.

Get yourself a snap-on f80 (fx80, fhx80, flf80, fhlf80etc) in whatever style you like and use it for 10 years and I doubt you will complain about the price. If you are tight on cash, look for NOS or lightly used on ebay for around 65%-75% of new cost. Well used perhaps a touch lower.

New rebuild kits are $10 and will be around for 20 years, and snap on is profitable enough and innovative enough they will likely be around.

 

[Loscaldazar]

I agree, that's why I'm going w/ the F80.
Does SO make a locking version FLF80A?

I think it's the FX80.

It has been updated to the FX80A. All 3/8 flex ratchets that end in the "A" have a slightly thicker yoke. I'd get the FX80A over the FX80...


Also, to fix your 1/4 ratchet, open it up, and try stretching the spring a little bit. The self-reversing and jamming issue is cause by the too weak/short spring that Apex used. This issue was solved (for Matco) when production was switched to AJ Manufacturing. My Matco 1/4 drive ratchet is way better than my Apex made armstrong ratchets in the self reversing department (as in, it doesn't self reverse). I would keep the Armstrong 1/4 drive ratchet too because it is way better than the Snap On T72 mechanism which is clunky and has it's own issues with being super loose.

For 3/8 drive (and 1/2 drive for that matter), Snap On is the way to go.

 

[TNBurban]

Its funny how many armstrong reviews are so positive, when we all know these designs show this flaw repeatedly from what I can tell.

Get yourself a snap-on f80 (fx80, fhx80, flf80, fhlf80etc) in whatever style you like and use it for 10 years and I doubt you will complain about the price. If you are tight on cash, look for NOS or lightly used on ebay for around 65%-75% of new cost. Well used perhaps a touch lower.

New rebuild kits are $10 and will be around for 20 years, and snap on is profitable enough and innovative enough they will likely be around.

How many of these reviews are "I just got it but haven't used it yet, but it looks awesome"??? I'm willing to bet quite a bit. They bought something based on reputation, opened the box and it felt heavy, looked shiny and was new.

I see a lot of these types of "reviews" that are nothing more than tool polishing. I laugh when I get emails from online retailers I bought something from asking me to do a review 2 days after I got it. A lot of times I haven't even got it out of the packaging yet before I'm getting these emails, let alone actually used it a few times to give an evaluation.

 

[Stevenn1]

Go get yourself a couple of Snap On ratchets and buy once cry once. Never worry about it again.

True!
As painful as it is ($$$), I never regret buying Snap-on ratchets. I have the FX80 (pretty sure its not the FX80A) and had no issues. With it locked straight its a little longer and just as solid as the FL80. You can set it to free flex but it can slip back to locked by just bumping against something.

 

[M6erfan]

How many of these reviews are "I just got it but haven't used it yet, but it looks awesome"??? I'm willing to bet quite a bit. They bought something based on reputation, opened the box and it felt heavy, looked shiny and was new.

I see a lot of these types of "reviews" that are nothing more than tool polishing. I laugh when I get emails from online retailers I bought something from asking me to do a review 2 days after I got it. A lot of times I haven't even got it out of the packaging yet before I'm getting these emails, let alone actually used it a few times to give an evaluation.

Agreed.

Reminds of when I frequented car detailing forums. Car wash shampoo reviews used to crack me up..."5 Stars! Great green color & Smells Great!"

 

[Super Sport]

I know, I'm heading to Sears this evening.

Sears is going to be a waste of time and won't be able to handle this warranty. I don't know why Apex gives people the run around like this, but you're going to want to deal with them directly unless you have a local retailer that actually stocks this item.

 

[Super Sport]

Its funny how many armstrong reviews are so positive, when we all know these designs show this flaw repeatedly from what I can tell.

I don't recall seeing any other issues similar to the OP. Care to post a link?

 

[PJNJ]

The 1/4" started locking up on me on more than one occasion. I can't turn the on / off lever and the tang is just locked in place. After several tries it will fix itself but will lock back up a few minutes later. It's a sealed head so I can't service it.

Isn't it serviceable by removing the snap ring and plate just like the 3/8 version?

 

[BIG BACCHUS]

I don't recall seeing any other issues similar to the OP. Care to post a link?

Google has a search bar. The only reason they have good reviews is because for every review where the owner had legitimately used it and says that it locks up, the action is choppy and the quality is inconsistent, there are 10 reviews where someone gets it, sees that it's shiny, has a ripped arm holding a hammer, likes the hourglass handle and writes a five star review saying "fits nice in my hand, many clicks per turn" and then they throw it in their no-name toolbox. I'm in LOVE with Armstrong tools and will continue to buy second hand because I loved them for their tools, not their warranty. That being said, their ratchets are of utterly terrible quality.

 

[Loscaldazar]

There's plenty of people who have actually used them and haven't had problems, let's not exaggerate. Yes, they do have a higher failure rate out of the box than Snap On, but if they work right out of the box the first few times they are put under load, they are fine. The gearwrench 84T ratchets are the same way.

The issue, as I have stated multiple times is the spring. The short spring allows for the pawl to slide too far back during ratcheting or under high load, letting it self reverse or jam. Stretching it ever so slightly eliminates the self reversing and jamming problems these ratchets have. Apex obviously screwed up on ordering or choosing what size/strength spring to use in these ratchets. Typical Apex. The switch to AJM by Matco has solved this issue. It's a simple fix though, and not an issue with the design per say....

I've been one of the people talking about this flaw (in both the 84 and 88 models from Armstrong, Mac, Gearwrench, and Craftsman) long before other people accepted that there was an issue (and one of the biggest critics of Armstrong/Apex), so I'm far from a fanboy here trying to defend them, just giving an realistic portrayal of what the problem is.

Plus, Snap On has some work to do in their 1/4 drive ratchet department. The T72 is one of my least favorite ratchets in 1/4 drive due to its choppy and stiff action with a loose fitting gear assembly that allows for all sorts of slop and jamming when you try to ratchet at a slight angle with the ratchet. No one is perfect.

 

[T45]

The switch to AJM by Matco has solved this issue. It's a simple fix though, and not an issue with the design per say....

This is a good post, and thanks for chiming in to articulate the specific detail of the issues.

I think its slightly overstating that the fix is simple--if it was that simple it wouldn't have taken matco a year to change vendors to solve the problem.

Also there is more of the bigger issue right now--1) armstrong is dead, 2) the USA kits are gonna go away, and 3) the ones they still have are expensive and also 4) existing kits probably have the flaw (spring/wharever) still not corrected.

there's enough hair on that deal to get a ********* row of asterisks on any recommendaton....is all I'm saying.

But props again for laying it out clearly what the issues are and how to fix them. People now need to make up their mind on how that impacts their purchase/use of the tool.

 

[pstemari]

Matco's year-long problem was that Apex moved the factory and didn't ship any product for months.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[gdocktor3]

Plus, Snap On has some work to do in their 1/4 drive ratchet department. The T72 is one of my least favorite ratchets in 1/4 drive due to its choppy and stiff action with a loose fitting gear assembly that allows for all sorts of slop and jamming when you try to ratchet at a slight angle with the ratchet. No one is perfect.

I feel the same way as you. IMO The only 1/4" Snap On ratchet worth a damn is the quick release flex head and it's only because it has qr. I'll take my Gearwrench 120xp or SK 40970 over my t72 any day.

 

[T45]

Matco's year-long problem was that Apex moved the factory and didn't ship any product for months.

New Armstrong 88 tooth ratchet - PICS - The Garage Journal Board
www.garagejournal.com
The Tools › General Tool Discussion
Dec 21, 2011 - 20 posts - ‎15 authors

For something that was just a new spring (design/redesign/modification), you would think they could have figured this out and fixed it before losing the contract...in 5yrs

 

[M6erfan]

For something that was just a new spring (design/redesign/modification), you would think they could have figured this out and fixed it before losing the contract...in 5yrs

And we wonder why they're gone...

 

[shockwave]

I have had this issue before and usually can be removed from c clip and lube up I have had more issues with drive end shearing of on these more than gear slippage

 

[Al Borland]

Tacky flattened hourglass handle with the arm kills them for me...

 

[drink]

Sears is going to be a waste of time and won't be able to handle this warranty. I don't know why Apex gives people the run around like this, but you're going to want to deal with them directly unless you have a local retailer that actually stocks this item.

Years ago a salesperson at Sears said, "even though Sears sells Armstrong tools Sears will not perform warranty service on them even if you buy them from Sears." Although the Armstrong warranty says to take the tool back to the place of purchase Sears refused to cooperate.

Currently I have no idea if SBD will be making any Armstrong tools or be providing any warranty service for them. Some members here say Armstrong has bit the dust and has become a memory. Brands of sockets like Allen, Armstrong, and Craftsman have a lot in common. That is why I was wondering if Armstrong will be continued by SBD.

 

[sk farmer]

armstrong ratchets? l am a big fan of them. i think those that had issues were the exception and not the rule. you don't see many people complaining about the gearwrench, matco and craftsman versions and they are all pretty similar and in many cases the exact same.

i just picked up 2 more in a private sale here. i doubt repairs will be much of an issue. matco 88 kits drop right in and are less than 20.

 

[jshillin]

I have that same 1/4" ratchet. When I first got it, mine did the same thing, I tore it apart, cleaned it really well and lubed it. It's been fine since.

 

[Loscaldazar]

For something that was just a new spring (design/redesign/modification), you would think they could have figured this out and fixed it before losing the contract...in 5yrs

For all I know the springs were cheaper and they figured they would save more money by buying the wrong/not correct spring than they would spend in warrantying it.

That sounds exactly like something Apex would do!

Bonus stuff:

 

[SMKS]

My Armstrong ratchets worked great and I used them a lot. But I did sell them a while ago as I was thinning the herd.

Warranty has always been a weak point with Apex brands. Add in how they've botched their U.S. manufacturing and discontinued Armstrong, and I'm pretty much done with Apex brands.

Hey OP - I wouldn't even bother taking it to Sears. When Apex told me to go to Fastenal, the people at Fastenal had no idea what I was talking about. I would be utterly shocked if Sears took care of it for you.

Call them back and tell them that's not an option and see if they'll warranty it for you.

Once you get it warrantied, sell those ratchets and forget about that brand. It *****, but it is what it is.

 

[nieuport17]

I have the 3/8 Armstrong. I used cheater bar often, and the locking switch is still ok.
On the gear, I have replaced with a repair kit once and it started the jam. Replaced with another repair kit, and it was fine again.
I don't know, something with the gears maybe.
I'm still a little upset that Apex canned Armstrong which was made in the USA.

 

[Super Sport]

Years ago a salesperson at Sears said, "even though Sears sells Armstrong tools Sears will not perform warranty service on them even if you buy them from Sears." Although the Armstrong warranty says to take the tool back to the place of purchase Sears refused to cooperate.

Currently I have no idea if SBD will be making any Armstrong tools or be providing any warranty service for them. Some members here say Armstrong has bit the dust and has become a memory. Brands of sockets like Allen, Armstrong, and Craftsman have a lot in common. That is why I was wondering if Armstrong will be continued by SBD.

Armstrong and Craftsman were both made by Apex, but otherwise not affiliated. Sears owned the Craftsman name, and Apex owned the Armstrong name. SBD bought the Craftsman name from Sears. The Armstrong name still belongs to Apex, although they have announced that they are eliminating it and focusing on their other (imported) brands.

 

[RCsGarage]

Found out what the problem was with the 1/4". I found a sliver of metal inside. The paw teeth look fine, so do the teeth on the gear tang. Not sure where it came from but after testing it out on a project this morning it worked perfectly fine.



So now I'll return the 3/8" to Advance and have them replace it under warranty since it seems Sears is no help.

And I ordered a F80 (since I was looking for a small 3/8" anyway) and picked up a FX80A too. If anyone wants to buy the 3/8" Armstrong once I get the new one shoot me a PM.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[mikebaker1129]

For all I know the springs were cheaper and they figured they would save more money by buying the wrong/not correct spring than they would spend in warrantying it.

That sounds exactly like something Apex would do!

Bonus stuff:

What is the difference in length?

 

[flyt100]

It has been updated to the FX80A. All 3/8 flex ratchets that end in the "A" have a slightly thicker yoke. I'd get the FX80A over the FX80...


Also, to fix your 1/4 ratchet, open it up, and try stretching the spring a little bit. The self-reversing and jamming issue is cause by the too weak/short spring that Apex used. This issue was solved (for Matco) when production was switched to AJ Manufacturing. My Matco 1/4 drive ratchet is way better than my Apex made armstrong ratchets in the self reversing department (as in, it doesn't self reverse). I would keep the Armstrong 1/4 drive ratchet too because it is way better than the Snap On T72 mechanism which is clunky and has it's own issues with being super loose.

For 3/8 drive (and 1/2 drive for that matter), Snap On is the way to go.

Thanks for this. I had that problem and tried this last night. Worked fine!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

 

[braidmeister]

Go get yourself a couple of Snap On ratchets and buy once cry once. Never worry about it again.

No greater truth has ever been spoken.

The best of the best of the best sir. With honors.

 

[Citation]

Found out what the problem was with the 1/4". I found a sliver of metal inside. The paw teeth look fine, so do the teeth on the gear tang. Not sure where it came from but after testing it out on a project this morning it worked perfectly fine.



So now I'll return the 3/8" to Advance and have them replace it under warranty since it seems Sears is no help.

And I ordered a F80 (since I was looking for a small 3/8" anyway) and picked up a FX80A too. If anyone wants to buy the 3/8" Armstrong once I get the new one shoot me a PM.

Thanks for the help everyone!

Funny how the guts of that ratchet look identical to that of my Apex/Husky and the Apex-Gearwrench ratchets (well the Husky has QR). I had a Husky with that locking flex head design. Big disappointment.

 

[amason3]

There's a reason they're going under, and I believe a big part of it is quality control. I had to fiddle with one of my 3/8 to get it to work properly also. Any thick grease or grime (from manufacturing) can cause reversing issues. Also, the head was milled too deep by several thousands, so the slop in the anvil/gear would also cause reversing. I put a .004" shim between the gear and plate to eliminate the slop and it fixed the issue. My other 3/8 and 1/4 drives have had no issues, but they are not sloppy like the one I shimmed. So it isn't the design, it's the tolerances.

 

[Derek420]

If it looks like **** smells like **** it is ****....
Stick with snap on dual80's or what I like even better and you don't hear as much about is Mac axis 90t ratchets I love them they have 20t on paw contact and just flat out look better than snap on ratchets. I own the 18" flex head 3/8 w/ comfort grip and snap on doesn't even make a version of it also have the 13" non flex 3/8 w/ comfort grip ,can't wait to get the 1/4 drive rat. Cornwell 72t is good also IMObut all feature similar floating paw design but the dual80s all are also fair choice I hate my 60&88t Marco rats straight up ****.

 

[nieuport17]

To OP, let us know how the warranty goes with Armstrong goes. Please post back