Disapointed

[Fredartic]

I just want to express my disapointment about this forum that has changed from few years ago.

Let me explain. I see that there's no place like it was for sharing and exploring new products in specially epoxy floor coating. There are three companies here that have the control. I'm sure their products are very very good. I'm sure that these guys all have knowledge and they are generous giving information. I'm sure that their companies are respectable. The point is as a simple user, I'm looking here for the opinion of other customers. Now, I feel that nobody is at ease to express themself other than recommanding one of the three companies and that closes the free debate. In my opinion, this is not the goal of a forum. That's why I'm disapointed. I know that we can find many brands on the market of epoxy floor coating and I would want to count on the members here to discuss about those products but it's not the case.

So, I said it. No offense to anyone.

 

[retfr8flyr]

I am a new member, so I don't know what it was like in the old days. I found this site researching for what I wanted to put on my garage floor. I found that there is plenty of information on products, other then the big 3 you describe. I thought I wanted to put tiles down but after getting some free samples and knowing how I use my garage, I decided on epoxy.

I don't think there is any restraint on discussions about any company and what they offer. I always feel free to ask any question I want. As you say, there are a vast number of online places where you can order epoxy coatings. I talked to many of the online company's about their products but kept coming back to the helpfulness, knowledge and after sale support offered by Fred, Scotty and Justin. For me it came down to choosing from one of their offerings.

Personally I think it's great that we have all the support from the various vendors on the forum. I am on many forums where the vendors never actually interact with the members. Sure the vendors will offer their products but I have also seen them offer valuable advice on competing products, even recommend other companies products. I don't really understand your problem with the fact that they are quick to offer advice. Just my $.02.


Earl

 

[bdamico]

The benefit to members outweighs your concerns by a wide margin. No one gives a hard sell here and they are very helpful. I think the reality is there may be tons of epoxy products out there but there is no reason to go searching around for something else when you have known good products here. The other reality is that prep is so big a part of it that you as the end user really can't judge whether the product you or someone else used is really better than another product. And because the biggest issue is prep, it is important and helpul that the vendors are here doing that. And there are plenty of threads about epoxy coat bubbling etc. so that indicates others feel free to be critical of the vendors' products.

 

[larry_g]

You have a valid concern about this forum. However this forum is but one data point in the stop for flooring information. The vendors that choose to participate in this forum do a lot to help out the people here. Sure they do it to advertise their product also. The vendors who do participate here seem to always push the positive aspects of their product and refrain from bashing the competition. I always appreciate a vendor that will sell me on the merits of their product, not the failings of their competition.

So I would suggest that you consider this forum as only one stop in your search for information.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[MacTexas]

I am happy they identify themselves as vendors. I know their information a little biased but they add good professional information.

 

[Herb67SS]

I think the vendor participation here and willing assistance to members is one of the most valuable aspects of this forum. I am a participant in other forums on other topics and there is no such support. And I have confidence in the fact that members won't let any vendor get away with false claims about their products on this form. Takes guts to put yourself and your product and company out there for free shots by the participants in this forum. Bad actors or vendors don't last long here.

Other forms of advertising and communication from companies are one way, transmit only. Here it's two way. That's a good thing for everybody involved.

 

[JimVonBaden]

I wouldn't say no one is willing. I have disagreed with a vendor or two, and always give my honest opinion when I have one. I think there are others who do the same.

Jim

 

[ADSR]

I wouldn't say no one is willing. I have disagreed with a vendor or two, and always give my honest opinion when I have one. I think there are others who do the same.

Jim

I believe a lot of members do the same. If a product is ****, one of our members will stand up and make a fuss about it.

 

[Fredartic]

I believe a lot of members do the same. If a product is ****, one of our members will stand up and make a fuss about it.

I agree with you guys. I'm sure that members won't miss to express if a product is not good. The point is there is no debate on epoxy coatings here. Someone arrives here and wants epoxy, or ask for one specific unknown brand, the debate will be closed by "call one of the three companies that is here and that's it!" Just take a look on the forum and make your own conclusion.

I asked for some informations about products and I didn't have answers other than what I said that closed fast the thread. It was not like it before. This disapointed me cause I would wondering a place to discuss about all products on the market and it doesn't happen here.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Fred:
This is an open forum. If U-Coat It, Muscle Gloss, Rustoleum, Norklad, etc... want to come here and offer help, opinion or promotion it is their right to do so.

Frankly, I spend too much time helping the customers who bought these products with every question that they (manufacturer X, Y or Z) are too busy or unqualified to give. Perhaps they don't like to web-chat at 9:16PM on a Sunday night.

Lastly, if you take a few minutes to use the search feature you will find that many different coatings are debated and discussed here. If you don't like to search, propose a coating that you have found in Canada and I am sure someone will give some feedback if it has been used or not and what the result was.

 

[darkk]

I just want to express my disapointment about this forum that has changed from few years ago.So, I said it. No offense to anyone.

Dude! What is your problem? Read a little, you will see there are several complaints from people in some of the posts. They didn't black listed or edited out. Some problems may be valid,maybe not. I have seen no evidence of strong arming by the Big 3 as you put it. Big 3 what the hell is that anyways. Point is, this forum has much information and many people to offer it and their experiences freely. If there a several compnaies that stand out the most, it is probably because they have earned it. Lighten up dude, with less stress you'll live longer....

 

[bdamico]

I agree with you guys. I'm sure that members won't miss to express if a product is not good. The point is there is no debate on epoxy coatings here. Someone arrives here and wants epoxy, or ask for one specific unknown brand, the debate will be closed by "call one of the three companies that is here and that's it!" Just take a look on the forum and make your own conclusion.

I asked for some informations about products and I didn't have answers other than what I said that closed fast the thread. It was not like it before. This disapointed me cause I would wondering a place to discuss about all products on the market and it doesn't happen here.

Then find the place where it happens and come back and show us. Or why don't you go learn about the other products and put them down and tell us about them? In any event stop wasting time and put down porcelain.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Just joining the discussion here. The thing with this forum is there is just a huge wealth of information, both by do it yourselfers, installers, and the manufacturers, that this is a wonderful and invaluable resource. You really need to read as many of the older threads as you can before you tackle a project. The manufacturers are very helpful here as are the installers. They are very straightforward about their products and are very helpful about how to use not only theirs, but other peoples too! In fact, sometimes one will help out in answering basic questions for another manufacturer when they aren't around! That is pretty helpful! For my first floor project, manufacturer Paul Oman helped me answer all kinds of questions and I didn't even buy any of his product since I had already purchased from another supplier! I will absolutely consider his products going foward (some of which are pretty unique and very useful). Others here like Scotty at Legacy are so helpful, many swear by his products and support. I've not bought from them (yet), but have no problems at all with how he represents himself or his company.

I would not want these forums to go without the manufacturers. Just too much help to everyone here. Everyone is free to buy whatever products from whomever they want, and either hire someone to install a floor or try to do it yourself. I think alot of people do their project, and then move on to other projects on other forums. Few people would stay interested in a floor forum for years to answer questions if they aren't constantly doing new floor projects. Most of those left to answer new questions are the installers and manufacturers and a few recent do it yourselfers like me. So read those old threads by the users of the products from the past and you'll get the user's experiences best that way. - Paul

 

[Fastback]

I agree with the OP.

Manufacturers can set up a forum or a "how to" chat on each of their respective websites, or at least have a sub forum here at the GJ. I do not feel they should be trolling the users sections to dispense wisdom as fact.

If you want advice from a manufacturer go to that manufacturers website, if they do not offer that ability then maybe they are not as large or as professional as they like to appear on this web forum. This forum does not exist to help someone grow a floor coating business.

I feel that with the commercial flooring suppliers, and the installers that now "Hang out" at this site (And dont get me started over on the heating section) do so for personal gain and it is not at all altruistic. They are in it for a personal gain, dont kid yourselves as to why they are here.

I was at this forum under a different name before I had this screen name and it was a better place before it became as commercial as it is now. I find myself using and recommending this site less and less anymore.

 

[Zelatore]

Perhaps I don't spend enough time in the flooring or heating sections, but I don't have any problem with Legacy et al hanging out here.

Sure they are promoting their product. They make no bones about it and I have no problem with that. If they weren't forthcoming about who they are and their affiliations that would be one thing, but such is not the case.

I understand the OP's concern that this is stifling open debate; that some people just respond to any flooring question with 'use XYZ' without giving it much thought. However I find such wide-spread support a ringing endorsement. I do not believe it stops discussion on other products, but it does set the bar high for another product to gain support. If you have an interest in ABC company's product by all means bring it up - we're all happy to hear about alternatives. Perhaps you've found a product that works as well as Legacy at half the price - who wouldn't want to hear about that?

But the fact is Scotty and the rest DO spend a lot of time here and have garnered a loyal following. Not through deceit of some sort or shady practices, but by offering a good product and outstanding support, even to those of us NOT buying their product.

On the one hand, I understand the OP's worry; that we may become too myopic. We've found a product we like and we may not be spending enough time looking for alternatives. The counter-argument is we've found a product we like and DON'T NEED to look for alternatives.

I believe it's a valid concern, but I do not think it rises to the level of a problem as yet.

 

[slickgt1]

Umm yea I am disagreeing with the vendors all the time. And just in case, if anyone is not familiar, Porcelain Tiles are better.

This is the best DIY home improvement (garage improvement) site out there. Yea it's called garage journal, but there are lots of great people here.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Lots of great input here. Honestly, I am not sure who you consider to be one of the controlling three... When I log on as a vendor, obviously I comment on products I sell. But, I try and do more than that.

For example, on at least two occasions this year, RaceDeck and I both chimed in on a thread about using interlocking garage tile for trailers. Both of us have had some experience with this and we both wanted to make sure that the consumer knew it was NOT a good idea.

I see a lot of threads where people are looking for something in particular. Aluminum base molding for example. I don't sell it, but I have been in the business for a decade and I can tell you where to find it.

I can't begin to count the number of times Legacy Industrial has commented on a thread about repairing a floor. In most cases he has nothing to gain, but he provides helpful, expert insight into fixing the problem.

There are also countless threads where a customer service or even an unfair critique has come up. The forum allows vendors the ability to help fix the problem.

"If you want help from a manufacturer go to a manufacturer's website" is outstanding advice. I highly encourage people to go straight to the source. There are times though where people have not yet decided on what product(s) might work and they need some expert advice.

VCT Tile is a great example where the manufacturer has been largely overruled. On a thread I started asking about the product, Armstrong chimed in directly and stated its not approved for garage use. BUT if you look at the thread, many people have disregarded that.

Where I take issue is where vendors or manufacturers do not disclose who they are and are simply using the forum for the purpose of SEO back links (which does not even work), self promotion. I think it is also important that we all learn to bite our tong about competing brands.

 

[dmeadow]

I think people on this forum are smart enough to understand who is a vendor and if they have a commercial interest. I'd have a problem if the vendors weren't disclosing who they are. I've found their input invaluable. I mean, who can better answer a question or a concern, some nitwit who has done one floor and thinks himself an expert, or someone who has done hundreds and really IS an expert/professional?

Thanks to all vendors for taking the time to help us out!!

 

[pauloman]

no opinion here - but I monitor track about 12 forums on misc industries and this is the most vendor open one of all. At the other end, some forums literally attack and remove any vendor that posts. Pick your forums carefully!

 

[Fredartic]

I agree with the OP.

Manufacturers can set up a forum or a "how to" chat on each of their respective websites, or at least have a sub forum here at the GJ. I do not feel they should be trolling the users sections to dispense wisdom as fact.

If you want advice from a manufacturer go to that manufacturers website, if they do not offer that ability then maybe they are not as large or as professional as they like to appear on this web forum. This forum does not exist to help someone grow a floor coating business.

I feel that with the commercial flooring suppliers, and the installers that now "Hang out" at this site (And dont get me started over on the heating section) do so for personal gain and it is not at all altruistic. They are in it for a personal gain, dont kid yourselves as to why they are here.

I was at this forum under a different name before I had this screen name and it was a better place before it became as commercial as it is now. I find myself using and recommending this site less and less anymore.

Here is one who has understand the essence of my original post. Thank you!

 

[larry_g]

Here is one who has understand the essence of my original post. Thank you!

I think most understand the essence of your post. For me I do not agree with your thought process. I welcome any vendors who chose to come here, clearly identify themselves, and join the conversation.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[bbarbulo]

actually i have to say i am impressed with the professional advice that is offered by these guys. choosing their product ultimately comes down to you.

that being said, i've used niagara protective coatings or something to that effect in the past. the product is tough as nails but did ultimately fade from the sun and also got fine scratches in-line where the tires go. still cleans up nicely and shows well though. so there... there is a quick review about another product offering

 

[pauls_workshop]

"I feel that with the commercial flooring suppliers, and the installers that now "Hang out" at this site (And dont get me started over on the heating section) do so for personal gain and it is not at all altruistic. They are in it for a personal gain, dont kid yourselves as to why they are here."

Funny, I feel the same thing when I ask questions at Lowes or Home Depot or the Car Dealership or anywhere else I go shop. Those terrible people there answer my questions too but do it with the hope that I buy their products from their store. Sometimes I do even which is wrong of me. Sometimes not. I view the manufacturer input in general as helpful. It is Capitalism sure but no different than any other Capitalism in America I know of. And the help here is pretty altruistic really. Sure, there are product suggestions by the manufacturers when one applies to a question. That is fine. People can check those options out or others from other manufacturers, same as when I get a recommendation from the guy at Lowes to buy this or that product. If they all start acting like Ferengi, we may have a problem. Google it or Wiki it if you don't get that reference! I for one like the manufacturer help on the forum. Caveat Emptor always applies in life, here as other places. It is all just Capitalism, which isn't so terrible. That is what alot of free societies are based on, and it tends to provide jobs to people and other useful things. I know I would have had no chance of doing my epoxy floor project without the expert help here from the manufacturers, most of which I didn't even buy the products from! - Paul

 

[RaceDeck1]

I was hesitant to jump in this thread, but could not resist. I do believe that the 1000's of members input, ideas, suggestions and wisdom are far more powerful than that some of the vendors who are active .
You are right that my opinion on what the best garage flooring system is could be a biased, but I would say that the members in this forum are well informed about all of the options in the garage and I would never think that someone would make an entire decision on what option is best for their garage based on my sole post-reply....I'm not that good

I am also a person who enjoys working in my own garage on hobbies, hotrods, and just hanging out with friends... after all, that is how I came up with the concept of RaceDeck and a modular flooring specifically made for the garage in the late 90's. I would think all of my trial and errors would be of value to at least a few on the forum. I am also the first to say that no one garage flooring option is best for everyone.

As for having every possible question answered on a company website, rather than answer one that is posted? that is a good question, but if we tried to do that we would have another 100 pages of word content. There are really 1000's of questions that come in each week and all are different ( colors, climate, combinations, installations, uses, comparisons, about us, about our competitors, et)

Lastly, I would not be fooled by forums where there are "no vendors" , it is common for many to come up with an alias and endorse their products as if they were a customer, Usually they are called out and for me it's easy to read between the lines. ( it happens here too, but the members here are pretty sharp and have called them out) . Whenever I investigate a product or company on the web, I search numerous areas to help make the best educated decision.