Discovered wired box, options?

[delirium330]

In prepping the garage before I paint I'm trying to take care of some of the electrical cleanup along with new lights going up. I got around to removing the blank cover plate on this box and found it wired up (see below picture). After some trial and error with the main, I found this is sitting on a 20 amp circuit.

I'm pretty inexperienced from an electrical standpoint, but not sure what this could possibly be/was used for or why it just had a blank cover plate on it? There is a security system in place and the 20 amp breaker lists this one as "Dedicated" along with about 3 other outlets on the circuit used to provide dedicated and backup power for the security system. I know the security system was installed after the home build... could this just be a junction for the installers to run wire? It is in a very convenient place for my remodel, so could I stick an outlet here to use going forward?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It was probably meant for an outlet but one wasnt needed so the wires were spliced together so the other outlets work and a cover plate was put put over it to close the box.

U could add in an outlet here. I would recommend adding a pigtail so the circuit current isnt running through the outlet. Also if The outlet fails, it wont effect the other devices...

 

[delirium330]

It was probably meant for an outlet but one wasnt needed so the wires were spliced together so the other outlets work and a cover plate was put put over it to close the box.

U could add in an outlet here. I would recommend adding a pigtail so the circuit current isnt running through the outlet. Also if The outlet fails, it wont effect the other devices...

Great, thanks for the input. By pigtail, you mean getting a small length of new Romex and splicing it in to those existing connections so the current isn't flowing through the new outlet?

 

[sourdough]

IMO, it is a connection box wherein a home-run from the panel is connected to 2 (or more) branch circuits (lighting/power). One cannot just wire-nut these connections together and leave them hanging inside a sheet-rocked wall with no access. Not only is that unsafe, but there is no access if a circuit fails for some reason. I believe it is also code to do so; if not, still a smart idea.

I'm not a journeyman electrician, but I built a wet bar in the basement of my previous home 25 years ago that had many light fixtures and receptacles using 2 20A circuits. I even wired the 20' refrigerator on the same circuit as the microwave but had a DPST switch to isolate the micro from the fridge with a neon pilot indicator to remind me to turn the fridge back on after the micro was used.

BTW, the pic you provided shows a well-done connection/access job.

Hope this helps.

Jim

 

[kf4zht]

You had a good electrician. Most of the time I have found such connections either wire nutted and electrical taped up (against all sorts of code) or in a metal box that is closed in behind drywall.

 

[Ray-CA]

...By pigtail, you mean getting a small length of new Romex and splicing it in to those existing connections so the current isn't flowing through the new outlet?

Kind of..... Take a length of Romex, about 10-inches or so, and pull the black, white and bare wire from it. Strip 3/4 of an inch off one end and by removing the wire nuts, but the black with the black, white with white etc.

You can then use the "pig-tails" to connect to a new outlet.

Ray

 

[damienga15de]

Had a discussion recently on a code Facebook page, if I used wire nuts here in Ireland I'd be sacked instantly.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Eriehunter]

The original box was either replaced or this box was cut into existing drywall. You are going to have to snoop around and see what else is on the circuit, and make sure you can/want to add outlets to it. It is a splice box so it probably has a purpose and you need to figure out what that is before you start changing stuff.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The screws to attach it to the stud are a potential code violation {314.23(B)(1)}. The installer should have used a old work box instead.

You may be at the fill limit now on that box and probably would have difficulty fitting a receptacle and pigtails in the box.

Charles

 

[n8n]

Is there a wire nut on the ground wires? There ought to be, but it appears to me that they may just be twisted together.

 

[404]

Adding the pigtails to the outlet is considered "better" but really you can take the wire nuts off and just add a quality brand of outlet, bend the wires ends to make fish hooks to put under the outlet screws.

I don't like those 2 sheetrock screws protruding into the box at all. Perhaps consider putting a piece of non conductive material over them. Maybe cut a piece of plastic from a spare outlet box to slip inside?

Or replace it with an old work box but that is kind of tricky.

Good luck,
404

 

[n8n]

Or wrap the device w/ electrical tape after making connections as you would if using a metal box or Madison hangers.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk

 

[Cmreschke]

Ok definitely not an overfilled box. That looks like an 18 cubic inch box with 2 14/2s in it. Most likely not cut in probably just had a box that they stole the nails from (happens a lot) to nail up a 2x4 somewhere, so the used screws to install the box. You say it's in your garage? Test your gfi in the garage and then check for power (before you reset the gfi) if you have power there still then install a gfi. Wire it with pig tails so that is not protecting down stream.
If you have no power then it might already be protected by the gfi reset and test again, if so a standard receptacle will be fine.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Ok definitely not an overfilled box. That looks like an 18 cubic inch box with 2 14/2s in it.

Well, the OP said it was a 20 amp circuit, so I'm going to take a stab that its 12 gauge wire.

He will be under the limit for a 18 cu in box, at 15.75, but nothing else can be added to the box, thats for sure.

Charles

 

[delirium330]

So after further investigation it looks like there is only one outlet running on this 20 amp circuit and it was installed after the home build as a dedicated outlet to power one part of the security system (as a power redundancy measure). It was a bit crazy going through all of the testing with the security system and testing the circuits (there is backup power redundancy on EVERYTHING... even some batteries for different devices in case everything goes down and a full on APC battery backup as a 3rd layer).

My best guess is that they originally used this box for the "dedicated" outlet, but then later realized they needed to have that "dedicated" outlet in a different location on the wall and they made the connection/extension in this box and ran the new extended wire to the new location and then just capped this box for access. When I tested the circuit only this box and the newly located "dedicated" outlet gave me a voltage reading.

First I'll break off half of an unused plastic wall cover to shield those screws as was recommended. I think there may be enough room to stick in an outlet, but will be tight. If the 20 amp outlet at the end of this circuit is not a GFI, should I use a GFI for the new outlet?

 

[kiatech]

good god that box is mounted horribly.

 

[Gerald O]

White sheath - isn't that 14g wire? Shouldn't be on a 20A breaker.

 

[Gerald O]

The GFCI receptacle can't go on the end of the circuit. It needs to be the first receptacle in the circuit to be able to protect the rest of them. Wire the 'line' terminals to the wires from the breaker, and the wires to the remaining receptacles on the circuit get connected to the 'load' terminals.

 

[delirium330]

The GFCI receptacle can't go on the end of the circuit. It needs to be the first receptacle in the circuit to be able to protect the rest of them. Wire the 'line' terminals to the wires from the breaker, and the wires to the remaining receptacles on the circuit get connected to the 'load' terminals.

Since there is only one receptacle on this circuit then this junction would technically come before the one receptacle (on the end of the circuit). So I think a GFI here would protect itself and the one other receptacle downstream from it.

 

[n8n]

So after further investigation it looks like there is only one outlet running on this 20 amp circuit and it was installed after the home build as a dedicated outlet to power one part of the security system (as a power redundancy measure). It was a bit crazy going through all of the testing with the security system and testing the circuits (there is backup power redundancy on EVERYTHING... even some batteries for different devices in case everything goes down and a full on APC battery backup as a 3rd layer).

My best guess is that they originally used this box for the "dedicated" outlet, but then later realized they needed to have that "dedicated" outlet in a different location on the wall and they made the connection/extension in this box and ran the new extended wire to the new location and then just capped this box for access. When I tested the circuit only this box and the newly located "dedicated" outlet gave me a voltage reading.

First I'll break off half of an unused plastic wall cover to shield those screws as was recommended. I think there may be enough room to stick in an outlet, but will be tight. If the 20 amp outlet at the end of this circuit is not a GFI, should I use a GFI for the new outlet?

it's not that there" may be enough room" to stick in an outlet you need to do the box fill calc per the NEC. How many cubic inches is the box? either look on the back for a stamp or just measure it

http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/box-fill-calculations

 

[n8n]

White sheath - isn't that 14g wire? Shouldn't be on a 20A breaker.

Some older NM was white in all sizes. Current production would be yellow, you are correct. OP should verify. 20A breaker should have 12AWG minimum.

 

[Cmreschke]

Well, the OP said it was a 20 amp circuit, so I'm going to take a stab that its 12 gauge wire.

He will be under the limit for a 18 cu in box, at 15.75, but nothing else can be added to the box, thats for sure.

Charles

15.75 before or after device?
I've got 11.25 before device (off the top of my head) iirc #12 = 2.25 cubic inches each times 5 conductors (grounds count one time not individually = 11.25 cubic inches.
Your math is correct with a device.

OP install a gfi and call it good.

 

[delirium330]

Thanks for all of the input, for what it is worth, the box measures 2.5in by 3.5in.

 

[Ray-CA]

Thanks for all of the input, for what it is worth, the box measures 2.5in by 3.5in.

Need one more: How deep is it?

2.5x3.5= 8.75 square inches

8.75 x depth = cubic inches (volume)

Ray

 

[delirium330]

Need one more: How deep is it?

2.5x3.5= 8.75 square inches

8.75 x depth = cubic inches (volume)

Ray

Haha, I must have been having a dense moment yesterday. Measurements are 3.5 (H) x 2.2 (W) x 2.5 (D) = 19.25. Seems like I may be a bit off in measuring, so maybe is a standard 18 box.