"Discussion" with the Mrs. EMERGENCY Need your input :)

[tolken4]

Ok, so we are getting ready to renovate our kitchen. Plans are not in writing yet, but it will be pretty much a complete reno. Floors, cabinets, countertops, appliances.

Just so happens, like a lot of 60s ranches, our garage is off the kitchen. But, unlike a lot of 60s ranches, I have a 2 deep x 2 wide garage with vaulted ceilings. Not much compared to a lot of garages on here, but still big compared to most in my area.


Here is the question, the wife has designs on taking the back part of the garage and turning it into part of the house. Think Mudroom/laundry/pantry. Something like that.

Here is my question, and I know I am coming to a biased crowed. But I want as honest an answer as possible from you all.

Is this a good long term decision as it relates to a house/real estate decision. Is the house more valuable with a unique oversized garage for the area? Or, is the first floor laundry/bigger kitchen area a better bet?

You all know my answer, but if it is better for the fam, I could put my tail between my legs and take one for the team.

Any thoughts from any real-estate folks, or anyone else who has been thru this?

 

[Kevin54]

Larger kitchen will get you the most return vs. a large garage. I hate to say that on a garage site to a bunch of garage guys, but it's the truth. As far as what you say "first floor laundry", I'm taking it that you have a second floor, or are in a Ranch with a basement. If it's a Ranch with a basement, by all means, put the laundry on the main floor so you don't have to go up or down any stairs to do laundry. It's also less steps to wash those shop rags and not get caught doing it.

Although a deep garage like that is nice, the kitchen will bring your best return. An added plus would be if you have the room to put a laundry/ 1/2 bath in when coming ion from out of doors, or a mud room per say.

 

[btbsandman]

Good question for a friend in reality.

IMHO if it is done correctly, then it would improve the value of the house. However keep in mind if it is done incorrectly, like it is at my house, then it detracts from the value and daily convenience.

You should have plans and review them and lay it to see what it would look like.

 

[wedge40]

Your wife has the right idea. Walking from the garage into the washroom/mudroom is a great idea. I've added shelving to mine so it's also a pantry of sorts.

Wedge

 

[Kevin54]

One other thing....if you are in a 2 story home, if all of the bedrooms are upstairs, it is better to have the laundry room upstairs, instead of going down one flight to the main floor, or going down two flights to the basement to do laundry.

If you get a chance, post up some pics and let's see what you are dealing with.

 

[#1SomeGuy]

One other thing....if you are in a 2 story home, if all of the bedrooms are upstairs, it is better to have the laundry room upstairs, instead of going down one flight to the main floor, or going down two flights to the basement to do laundry.

If you get a chance, post up some pics and let's see what you are dealing with.

No thanks...Laundry in the basement is better for so many reasons, it's quieter not listening to the machines over your head, if there is an issue (overflow) it doesn't do as much damage, and the basement is less "usable" space than upstairs.

 

[LennyTheLizard]

I have a similar set-up in my house.

I HATE IT!
My Wife loves it!

The house originally had a 24' x 32' garage. Previous owner had a 7' x 14' room built into the garage off the kitchen for laundry room. It is nice to have laundry on main level, but I really hated losing that space in garage. Now that I have a huge shop detached, I guess it really doesn't matter.

You don't enter the house through the "mud room", it's a separate door off the kitchen which I really don't like. In photo 3, Kitchen entry on far left and man door on far right.

Please ignore the clutter. My wife would kill me if she knew I posted these pictures.


Just make sure it's planned out well. I would consider a mock up in cheap 3D Home software before you cut anything.

 

[jdsac]

All you have to do to answer that is look at a couple of things-

Find your homeowners policy & see how much they figure replacement cost per ft for the garage & for the house.

next find your tax bill see how much per ft you are assessed for the house &
how much for the garage.

Conditioned (heat etc.) habitable space will always be worth more than garage space.

 

[BD1]

I think you need to take ''LONG TERM'' out of the decision. Who cares 10 years from now, you maybe dead !
A practical stand point is the question.
What is it gonna take to get plumbing out there ? Gas or electric for dryer ? Venting dryer ? Are you doing the work yourself ? How much space we talking ? What is this gonna leave for parking cars in garage ? Could you add on to garage later ?

 

[e-tek]

^^^^ You kidnapped R2D2???

Kevin - while I agree it would be convenient to have laundry close by, having it in the basement is pretty important if you ever had a leak (like we did). It's also usually messy.....

 

[5lima30]

From a money standpoint your wife is right. The resale and sellability of a larger upgraded kitchen is much better. Is building a detached garage/shop an option? That would be a win win for both of you.

 

[Oggy]

Assuming the price of the reno isn't your biggest concern (which voids the cost of adding plumbing, electrical, etc), Kitchens sell houses, so adding to the usability of the kitchen will help in value. I don't know about your house, but in mine, if Mama's not happy, nobody is happy. so if this is what she REALLY wants, and you can live without the additional room in the garage, go for it, happy wife means a happy marriage...

 

[dlenkewich]

No thanks...Laundry in the basement is better for so many reasons, it's quieter not listening to the machines over your head, if there is an issue (overflow) it doesn't do as much damage, and the basement is less "usable" space than upstairs.

Agree'd.

A lot more noise will travel through wood vs. concrete.

 

[rslaback]

The kitchen is the better idea for resale. Garages always look big no matter what size they are as long as their isn't a vehicle in it. Otherwise no one would build a 20 x 20 2 car.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Ok, so we are getting ready to renovate our kitchen. Plans are not in writing yet, but it will be pretty much a complete reno. Floors, cabinets, countertops, appliances.

Just so happens, like a lot of 60s ranches, our garage is off the kitchen. But, unlike a lot of 60s ranches, I have a 2 deep x 2 wide garage with vaulted ceilings. Not much compared to a lot of garages on here, but still big compared to most in my area.


Here is the question, the wife has designs on taking the back part of the garage and turning it into part of the house. Think Mudroom/laundry/pantry. Something like that.

Here is my question, and I know I am coming to a biased crowed. But I want as honest an answer as possible from you all.

Is this a good long term decision as it relates to a house/real estate decision. Is the house more valuable with a unique oversized garage for the area? Or, is the first floor laundry/bigger kitchen area a better bet?

You all know my answer, but if it is better for the fam, I could put my tail between my legs and take one for the team.

Any thoughts from any real-estate folks, or anyone else who has been thru this?

Always build/remodel something that someone else wants because you WILL sell some day....and in this era of depressed housing markets and a BUYERS market for years to come...one has to adjust one's priorites.

A first floor laundry/bigger kitchen will sell before a larger garage...hands down.

Remember that the decision to buy a specific house is almost always made by the wife of the husband/wife buying population.

Sorry to be disappointing but we of the Fraternity of the Garage are an unprotected minority in society...subject to the whims of real world economics..garages don't sell houses...kitchens and laundry rooms do.

Any chance you can build a separate garage on site?

 

[RKA]

The two deep doesn't hold a lot of value for the average buyer, so reclaiming half that extra space for a well integrated mud room and laundry room would prevent potential buyers from walking away. Strictly looking at numbers, my last appraisal showed $180/sq. ft. For finished space, and $50/sq. ft. For garage space. Your numbers will vary, but that gives you a sense. Of course you'll have to sink money in to make it a finished space, as long as you don't overspend, you will get the money back on resale.

I would make sure you leave each of the bays deep (1.5 cars deep) if possible. Even if their is a shed outside, it's helpful to have extra storage space in the garage for bikes, workbenches, shelving, etc. Most people have to sacrifice one bay for these purposes, and they know it. Having that extra room in the 2 car garage means they know it can really accommodate the 2 cars and not leave 1 in the driveway. In extremely hot or cold climates, that's a plus. If you need the extra space indoors for a pantry or something, leave at least 1 bay deep for the reasons mentioned (it's still far better than no extra garage space).

At the end of the day a pantry and mud room are big bonuses that shouldn't cost you much money. The laundry room might cost you some, but it makes the house more functional, so you should see that money back at resale.

 

[bgarrett]

If you plan to live there forever, the value of the house means nothing but higher taxes. I suggest a win/win. Give in to the woman,then Get a big addition to the shop so you get your space back IN SPADES!

 

[440-6 Shaker]

It's a proven fact, kitchens and bathrooms sell houses.
Unless you can start generating a significant amount of income out of your garage to justify the need for more space the kitchen, pantry, mudroom wins and the garage becomes the unfortunate sacrificial lamb...
Sorry, my deepest condolences.

 

[CNGsaves]

Neighbor had this same dilema when he retired and wife wanted bigger kitchen. However, his garage was pretty small anyway so they decided to build out into back yard. They built a open dining room addition (like 10' x 12') out into back yard and integrated their back deck into the design. Roof peak of addition matched same pitch as bedroom in back corner of house.

Kitchen really opened up and now have beautiful kitchen with open floor plan that integrates with the living room. You would never know that an addition was put on the house. Only code requirement for addition was that crawlspace needed access for such things as termite inspection, so trap door in floor had to be built in and insulated since floor was only thing seperating living space from the cold crawlspace below.

Other option is to keep the "laundry room" at bare minimum size by using a European style stacking washer/dryer with very small footprint that actually could fit into a small closet.

Go down fighting before you give up 6 ft of your garage!!

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

To reclaim garage space from the bikes , lawn care equipment, etc, one can have a small outbuilding constructed CHEAPLY that fits on almost any lot..and it helps a lot.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

If you plan to live there forever, the value of the house means nothing but higher taxes. I suggest a win/win. Give in to the woman,then Get a big addition to the shop so you get your space back IN SPADES!

Every ones sells sooner or later..EVERYONE.

I have seen a number of older couples try to sell their homes to find that they will take a bath on the sale...if they can sell at all...because they did not plan for what others wanted.

Remodeling kitchens/baths get the most out of the money spent when the house is sold..but only a percentage. ALL OTHER REMODELING results in a significant LOSS.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Ok, so we are getting ready to renovate our kitchen. Plans are not in writing yet, but it will be pretty much a complete reno. Floors, cabinets, countertops, appliances.

Just so happens, like a lot of 60s ranches, our garage is off the kitchen. But, unlike a lot of 60s ranches, I have a 2 deep x 2 wide garage with vaulted ceilings. Not much compared to a lot of garages on here, but still big compared to most in my area.


Here is the question, the wife has designs on taking the back part of the garage and turning it into part of the house. Think Mudroom/laundry/pantry. Something like that.

Here is my question, and I know I am coming to a biased crowed. But I want as honest an answer as possible from you all.

Is this a good long term decision as it relates to a house/real estate decision. Is the house more valuable with a unique oversized garage for the area? Or, is the first floor laundry/bigger kitchen area a better bet?

You all know my answer, but if it is better for the fam, I could put my tail between my legs and take one for the team.

Any thoughts from any real-estate folks, or anyone else who has been thru this?

Just a thought...how are you using your garage space?

Is it work area or storage?

If storage, can you down size the stuff?

If not, can you rent storage for the stuff?

 

[justanengineer]

No matter how nicely you paint the floors, a garage is a mud room plain and simple, so you gain nothing there. As far as having a laundry in the garage, that is near the top of the list of STUPID ideas someone ever thought of for a home. Youre introducing moisture into one of the areas of the house that typically has the most problems, and where you typically want it the least. Youre also leaving yourself wide open for flooding issues, which if you havent had happen already are only a matter of time. Before you go looking into building a pantry or extending the kitchen, I would suggest helping to clean the kitchen a few times. SWMBO used to think our kitchen was small and lacked food storage space until I helped rearrange/organize it and also pointed out how much food we were buying but not eating and consequently tossing. Wasted space now = waste of effort building more.

Frankly, I would look around the rest of the house for wasted space before looking at the garage. If you have room in a basement, look there first. If you have a living room in addition to a den/office/library/other....I would look there. If youre out of room, build her an enclosed porch and put everything out there.

#1 way to keep a woman happy about the kitchen - keep it small but filled with top of the line appliances, help keep it organized and clean, and get off your backside to help cook once in awhile.

 

[Krash Kadillak]

If the architectural details work out, you could possibly have some 'loft' space over the addition inside the garage, so can regain some of the lost square footage.

 

[Al Bundy]

SWMBO used to think our kitchen was small and lacked food storage space until I helped rearrange/organize it and also pointed out how much food we were buying but not eating and consequently tossing. Wasted space now = waste of effort building more.

Last time I tried to help rearrange the kitchen my wife threatened to kill me in my sleep. I have a detached 30 x 40 that is strictly my domain. The kitchen is hers to do with as she pleases.

 

[bgarrett]

Every ones sells sooner or later..EVERYONE.
\.

You sound like one of those guys who try to buy one of my antique cars by telling me everyone has a price. After I die, hopefully at home, my son plans to retire to my house. He is thirty years old and if someone wants to buy my house after he dies, I sure wont care what its worth.

Millions of people die without selling their homes

 

[ajchien]

Updated kitchens and bathrooms are worth much more than a garage. A mudroom, or laundry room not as much, but still more than an extra large garage.

If you do it, maybe try to negotiate in some kind of upgrade to your garage at the same time.

 

[James E]

Millions of people die without selling their homes

Actually, I'd bet the annual number of people who die without their home being sold is very low, perhaps only in the thousands.

The point is valid. The overwhelming majority of people will NOT live in their current house until they die. Every house I ever bought was going to be the last one. Guess what? They weren't. Now, while I factor in what I want, I usually consider resale before I make the final decision on purchases, renovations, finishes, etc.

But, back to the OP. A two-deep garage is just an oddity in the real estate world. We all think having one would be cool but most buyers would just think it's weird. IMO, as long as the added space for the kitchen is coming out of the deep part of the garage and you still wind up with a two-car garage when it's all over with, the choice is obvious.

As long as it's useful space, added, heated kitchen space will always add exponentially more value than an extra-deep garage.

 

[fringeofinsanity]

You really didn't say what occupies this space or how much would be taken. Heated living space is going to have more resale, sure, but realistically, how much space are we talking? Big difference between 5x5 or 10x10. Is it currently working shop space? Storage? Empty?

Do you have a shed currently? Could you build one to recoup the lost space for storage?

 

[SlowPoke-Canada]

Nobody wants to give up garage space but it might make sense.
I have a 20x20 with a door on the front wall into a mud/laundry room. It works great for us and it was a selling feature when we bought. If my wife (for some reason) offered the extra mud room space as a garage extension, I'd turn it down. For us, its a better use of space as it is.
Is this a territorial battle for you/her? (overstating)
Would the family benefit more than you will sacrifice?

 

[BigE]

Do you have enough land to build a shop? If so, tell the missus she can have the laundry room if you also get a shop. Seems fair to me.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

I don't know how much you use the garage, or what your current kitchen looks like.

Solutions have to work for everybody.

 

[Al Bundy]

Actually, I'd bet the annual number of people who die without their home being sold is very low, perhaps only in the thousands.

The point is valid. The overwhelming majority of people will NOT live in their current house until they die.

This would be an interesting statistic to know. Every family member of mine that has died in the last 15 years has still owned their home. Unfortunately that entails quite a few. As far as friends and neighbors the vast majority have also been living in their homes. I'm obviously a small sample, but my experience is just the opposite. The overwhelming majority still live in their home at the time of passing.

 

[dieselgarage]

I have a friend that when he build his new home made it totally handicap assessable. He nor anyone in his family needed this. Wide doors, low counters that you cold roll up to in a wheel chair, bathrooms were all ADA compliant. Full mother-in-law quarters. I thought he was nuts. Until he went to sell it. He cashed in big time. Just food for thought.

 

[mikeyr]

I will take a contrary view here. How long are you going to live in the place ? if you are going to live there more than 5 years, forget property values and do what you 2 can agree on. Always planning on residual value, always planning on getting the most for your renovation dollars is a total waste if you are going to live there unhappily for 5 or more years.

That 5 years is totally subjective and just a number I pulled out of my rear, but there has to be a point where you live in the house you want and not live in the next owners house always thinking and planning about what will make that next owner happy.

Remember that old saying, a happy wife makes for a happy hubby, build the house you 2 want to live in. I personally would hate giving up part of my garage and luckily my wife would never ask/suggest. All of my renovations in our current house are just like the above poster, wide doors and handicap ramps, I am only 55 years old but I plan on dying in this house so I am plan for the long term. We lived in our first house 31 years so we don't like moving and only moved when her parents died and we moved into the house she and her brothers were born in after her parents bought the house in 1951.

 

[Falcon67]

X47 for do the kitchen. A mud/entry area makes a big difference in a house. One of the things that sold us this house was the 6'x10' laundry/mud room that you enter right from the garage. I wrecked out part of a bedroom at the old house to create a mud/entry and a larger pantry that kept people from coming in the back door through the master BR. Made a big difference in how the house "worked".

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

I have a friend that when he build his new home made it totally handicap assessable. He nor anyone in his family needed this. Wide doors, low counters that you cold roll up to in a wheel chair, bathrooms were all ADA compliant. Full mother-in-law quarters. I thought he was nuts. Until he went to sell it. He cashed in big time. Just food for thought.

I am actually surprised that all homes are not set up for total handicap assessibility.

Anyone can be handicapped ...forever..at any time.

Handicap assessiblity is not just for the elderly.

Two years ago I woke up with an incredible back problem...took months to get over...and I had never had a problem before. The advantages of having a handicap assessible home was one of the lessons I learned from that experience.

TMT

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

This would be an interesting statistic to know. Every family member of mine that has died in the last 15 years has still owned their home. Unfortunately that entails quite a few. As far as friends and neighbors the vast majority have also been living in their homes. I'm obviously a small sample, but my experience is just the opposite. The overwhelming majority still live in their home at the time of passing.

Too many people think the norm is what they are living.

The VAST majority of the country moves with the job changes...and a person who says they will not be moving is self employed, retired or not the breadwinner. Others are forced to move because of changes in health.

An example...

My parents live on a street in a state with a large elderly population and have lived on the same street (10 homes) for 27 years. In that time only 3 homes have the same residents..most have had to move because of employment, two have had to move because of health (heart attack/Alzheimer)..with 2 of the 3 left likely to move because of declining health (dementia/stroke).

Those who think they will die with their boots on in their house are greatly misleading themselves.

 

[srmofo]

Every ones sells sooner or later..EVERYONE.

I have seen a number of older couples try to sell their homes to find that they will take a bath on the sale...if they can sell at all...because they did not plan for what others wanted.

Remodeling kitchens/baths get the most out of the money spent when the house is sold..but only a percentage. ALL OTHER REMODELING results in a significant LOSS.

....but if you are not planning on moving in the foreseeable future, you could just as well lose because styles change. How many of those ederly homes were still in the style of the 70s.

 

[niget2002]

Tell her she can have the space in the back, if during the remodel, you're allowed to extend the garage out the front the same distance win/win!