"Discussion" with the Mrs. EMERGENCY Need your input :)

[Falcon67]

FWIW - if you plan to be there a while, make it how you like it. Screw resale. We may not get diddly back on the vinyl windows we're about to have installed, and payback approaches 15 years. But as long as we are in this house, it'll make it a lot more comfortable and easy to live in.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

....but if you are not planning on moving in the foreseeable future, you could just as well lose because styles change. How many of those ederly homes were still in the style of the 70s.

Well said.

Many elderly owners are shocked to hear that their house is worth much less than others because they haven't remodeled in 40 years.

I have heard several realtors state that if your remodeling is not within a five year period it is out of date.

If you remodel and plan on getting any significant return, the remodeling needs to occur within a few years of selling the house.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Larger kitchen will get you the most return vs. a large garage. I hate to say that on a garage site to a bunch of garage guys, but it's the truth. As far as what you say "first floor laundry", I'm taking it that you have a second floor, or are in a Ranch with a basement. If it's a Ranch with a basement, by all means, put the laundry on the main floor so you don't have to go up or down any stairs to do laundry. It's also less steps to wash those shop rags and not get caught doing it.

Although a deep garage like that is nice, the kitchen will bring your best return. An added plus would be if you have the room to put a laundry/ 1/2 bath in when coming ion from out of doors, or a mud room per say.

Keven speaks the truth!

Jim

 

[justanengineer]

But, back to the OP. A two-deep garage is just an oddity in the real estate world. We all think having one would be cool but most buyers would just think it's weird.

As long as it's useful space, added, heated kitchen space will always add exponentially more value than an extra-deep garage.

I would disagree, but I think it depends on the typical size of a "two car" in that area. My last "two" car wouldnt fit both of my vehicles empty, and the previous resident couldnt fit his crew cab F150 alone due to length (and the furnace). Considering the amount of folks with 3+ vehicles, motorcycles and other toys, riding mowers (sheds **** and get broken into), and need for other "storage"....I'd say a large garage is very desirable, especially in colder areas where people park inside, or in areas where a decent "two car" is rare.

....but if you are not planning on moving in the foreseeable future, you could just as well lose because styles change. How many of those ederly homes were still in the style of the 70s.

Very good point, but that does go both ways - one could lose bc they didnt update or they could lose bc they did. It may not apply to the OP but many older homes lose value bc the owner updates a "classic" house and rips out plaster, crown molding, adds a modern addition etc.....I think one of the most difficult renovations to pull off is "updating" an older home without it becoming an "abortion."

 

[James E]

I would disagree, but I think it depends on the typical size of a "two car" in that area. My last "two" car wouldnt fit both of my vehicles empty, and the previous resident couldnt fit his crew cab F150 alone due to length (and the furnace). Considering the amount of folks with 3+ vehicles, motorcycles and other toys, riding mowers (sheds **** and get broken into), and need for other "storage"....I'd say a large garage is very desirable, especially in colder areas where people park inside, or in areas where a decent "two car" is rare.

I hear you and agree to some extent, but in this particular situation, we're not discussing the value of a double-deep garage on its own--we're making a comparison between the value of living space versus the deep, extra space in a garage. Given only those two choices, I'd always choose the living space.

I certainly see the value of a garage that holds four cars, or two cars and all of my ****. But if the OP renovates his kitchen and leaves the garage oversized at the expense of a still-small kitchen, I think that's a mistake.

Just my 2 cents, and it may not even be worth that.

 

[gol4]

I faced this same situation last year. Laundry was down stairs. Wife was complaining that going up and down stairs was getting more difficult. Neither of us is going to get any younger. And remember if mama ain't happy, ain't no one happy. I gave up some garage space for a laundry room. But mine was with the understanding that I would build a detached garage and we would eventually convert the whole garage into additional living space. It has worked out pretty well so far. I recouped some heated space in the basement for additional work space. My deciding factor is I can build a detached garage cheaper then a home addition would have cost and move the noise, hazards and smells away from the house. While I have not moved to phase 2 yet, planning is underway.

 

[56rpm]

The OP never said they were planning on enlarging the kitchen, they're renovating it. Space from the garage will be used for pantry, mudroom, laundry. If we knew about basement, number of children, how long they plan on staying in the home, ability to add onto the garage, better advice could be given.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

I faced this same situation last year. Laundry was down stairs. Wife was complaining that going up and down stairs was getting more difficult. Neither of us is going to get any younger. And remember if mama ain't happy, ain't no one happy. I gave up some garage space for a laundry room. But mine was with the understanding that I would build a detached garage and we would eventually convert the whole garage into additional living space. It has worked out pretty well so far. I recouped some heated space in the basement for additional work space. My deciding factor is I can build a detached garage cheaper then a home addition would have cost and move the noise, hazards and smells away from the house. While I have not moved to phase 2 yet, planning is underway.

The value of a ground floor laundry is immediately apparent when one's mobility is impaired by age or illiness.

Many times it is one of the first features that a woman looks for when a couple is hunting for a house

 

[ssentt]

Buy her a strap-on.

Get on your knees.

Let her pound away on ya.

Either way she'll only be happy for a little while.

At least you getta keep garage floor space.

Hope this helped.

 

[SGKent]

It has to look like it was built there as an original part of the house and not as some after thought if you are to get the most out of it. IMHO a heated/air conditioned laundry room with a pantry etc in it will still be worth more than that footage in the garage UNLESS it makes the garage unusuable as a garage for cars and a little workspace. Be sure to add a laundry sink that you can clean up your hands or muddy things. If you can afford to add a small bathroom within it with a shower if possible that would be even better cause someone can clean up before they come in the house. If it is done in a way that looks like it was designed by the builder of the original house, then an appraiser will typically compare it to a home with an additonal bath. If it looks like a garage conversion then it may be treated as one. Be sure all the work is permitted.

 

[mikeyr]

Those who think they will die with their boots on in their house are greatly misleading themselves.

for most maybe that is true, but I am not misleading myself.

I owned and lived in my last house 30 years, when my in-laws died we moved into their house and will die in it. We are 55 and 56, my in-laws bought the house in 1951 and they died in the house (well in the hospital), its long ago paid for and it was our last move, my wife was born in the house (literally).

By the time I was 17 years old, I had lived in 5 different countries and moved more times than I can remember. I moved all the times I want to in my life, I am done moving. We have no desire to move back to our original house.

I even pay exhorbitant long term care insurance fees so we can have home care if we ever need it. We don't move...we travel and visit other places but we don't move.

Now we might have a second house in Europe (most likely France) when we retire but this is our home. I don't see your problem with planning for the inevitable of old age, so what if they are misleading themselves, they are planning and plans can always change with the times.

 

[tolken4]

Wow, I am amazed at the responses and quite frankly surprised at how much of a no brainer this one appears to be. Especially on this site. You should all be ashamed of yourselves! I can only imagine you all left your computers logged in and your wives posted on your behalf. Just kidding, it is much appreciated information.

So, there seem to be some recurring questions. I will try to answer them, if I miss any let me know. Oh, and thanks for all the input even though, your answers pretty much all sucked!

This is a 1964 Ranch. Laundry downstairs. Garage is 19*35. It is maybe a little shallower than a full 2 car, but we can fit two all the same. The kitchen is just on the other side of the wall from the garage.

Garage is currently used to store old machinery of various kinds. Wood woorking and metal lathes.

G & F spaces are garage. The original owner changed the plans to make the larger garage.

Now, that I have decided to turn in my man card. How about some details. We will be bringing a designer. But, in your humble opinions.

How deep would you make the garage? Or rather, how much space would you give to the kitchen and pantry/mud room? I assume all the way across the garage would make the most sense? Seems silly to have a corner that is not taken up.
How deep is a nice sized 2 car?

Sold my car a while back. My baby. Thinking I should be allowed to get that back for giving up my garage space

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

for most maybe that is true, but I am not misleading myself.

I owned and lived in my last house 30 years, when my in-laws died we moved into their house and will die in it. We are 55 and 56, my in-laws bought the house in 1951 and they died in the house (well in the hospital), its long ago paid for and it was our last move, my wife was born in the house (literally).

By the time I was 17 years old, I had lived in 5 different countries and moved more times than I can remember. I moved all the times I want to in my life, I am done moving. We have no desire to move back to our original house.

I even pay exhorbitant long term care insurance fees so we can have home care if we ever need it. We don't move...we travel and visit other places but we don't move.

Now we might have a second house in Europe (most likely France) when we retire but this is our home. I don't see your problem with planning for the inevitable of old age, so what if they are misleading themselves, they are planning and plans can always change with the times.

Just telling like it is...

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/almosthome/senior.html

"After age 65, a woman has a one-in-two chance of spending time in a nursing home. A man has a one in three chance because of his lower life expectancy."

You can read the other factoids at the link.

You may very well die with your boots on in bed...but the odds say you will likely not.

 

[JimVonBaden]

for most maybe that is true, but I am not misleading myself.

I owned and lived in my last house 30 years, when my in-laws died we moved into their house and will die in it. We are 55 and 56, my in-laws bought the house in 1951 and they died in the house (well in the hospital), its long ago paid for and it was our last move, my wife was born in the house (literally).

By the time I was 17 years old, I had lived in 5 different countries and moved more times than I can remember. I moved all the times I want to in my life, I am done moving. We have no desire to move back to our original house.

I even pay exhorbitant long term care insurance fees so we can have home care if we ever need it. We don't move...we travel and visit other places but we don't move.

Now we might have a second house in Europe (most likely France) when we retire but this is our home. I don't see your problem with planning for the inevitable of old age, so what if they are misleading themselves, they are planning and plans can always change with the times.

Sounds like me, and a great plan!

Jim

 

[Al Bundy]

Just telling like it is...

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/almosthome/senior.html

"After age 65, a woman has a one-in-two chance of spending time in a nursing home. A man has a one in three chance because of his lower life expectancy."

You can read the other factoids at the link.

You may very well die with your boots on in bed...but the odds say you will likely not.

I thought the discussion was about still owning your home when you die, not whether you actually die in your home.

 

[tolken4]

I thought the discussion was about still owning your home when you die, not whether you actually die in your home.

Funny, cause I thought it was about giving part of my garage to my wife/kitchen.

No one have anymore input? See above.

 

[soob]

Heated and cooled space is appraised at 3x more value than garage. Sad but true. With houses you have to go with what other people value things at, or you'll get screwed. The flip side is that you can get a really good deal on esoteric houses that happen to match your own interests. Lots of value to you, but when you buy only pay what it's worth to the public at large.

I got a new house recently, house garage was almost 700 square foot, the detached was 700 plus a 400 sq ft loft. They appraised the detached garage at $5000. Got a good deal on the house though.

So to sum it up: buy weird houses at weird house prices. Making them less weird makes you money, making them more weird costs you money.

 

[tolken4]

Wow, I am amazed at the responses and quite frankly surprised at how much of a no brainer this one appears to be. Especially on this site. You should all be ashamed of yourselves! I can only imagine you all left your computers logged in and your wives posted on your behalf. Just kidding, it is much appreciated information.

So, there seem to be some recurring questions. I will try to answer them, if I miss any let me know. Oh, and thanks for all the input even though, your answers pretty much all sucked!

This is a 1964 Ranch. Laundry downstairs. Garage is 19*35. It is maybe a little shallower than a full 2 car, but we can fit two all the same. The kitchen is just on the other side of the wall from the garage.

Garage is currently used to store old machinery of various kinds. Wood woorking and metal lathes.

G & F spaces are garage. The original owner changed the plans to make the larger garage.

Now, that I have decided to turn in my man card. How about some details. We will be bringing a designer. But, in your humble opinions.

How deep would you make the garage? Or rather, how much space would you give to the kitchen and pantry/mud room? I assume all the way across the garage would make the most sense? Seems silly to have a corner that is not taken up.
How deep is a nice sized 2 car?

Sold my car a while back. My baby. Thinking I should be allowed to get that back for giving up my garage space

Thanks, again, I think it appears the overwhelming consensus is to do this and make at least part of the garage into kitchen/pantry/mudroom/washroom.

I am curious now if anyone has any more details on how much space and how they might do it given the above drawing and dimensions?

 

[soob]

How deep would you make the garage? Or rather, how much space would you give to the kitchen and pantry/mud room? I assume all the way across the garage would make the most sense? Seems silly to have a corner that is not taken up.
How deep is a nice sized 2 car?

Sold my car a while back. My baby. Thinking I should be allowed to get that back for giving up my garage space

It depends on how much room your kitchen needs, really. But personally I love a garage that's five feet deeper than usual (i.e., about 25 feet deep). It makes a huge difference in terms of usable space.

Also as far as taking up the whole wall, you could leave some and make it into a storage room, a notch for a tool box or some lawn equipment, etc. Problem is that if the closet opens on the cooled side of the house you get it appraised as part of the square footage of the house, otherwise probably not.

 

[MP&C]

No thanks...Laundry in the basement is better for so many reasons, it's quieter not listening to the machines over your head, if there is an issue (overflow) it doesn't do as much damage, and the basement is less "usable" space than upstairs.

Sounds like you aren't the one carrying the laundry up and down the steps. We have a two story house we built about 10 years ago, and I insisted the laundry go in the bonus room. She wanted them downstairs in the mud room. When I asked about dirty laundry generation, she reminded me of dish towels from the kitchen. Once I asked her to compare the amount of laundry generated from bedrooms and bathrooms, and the amount of trips up and down steps, it was a no brainer. Laundry went on the floor with the bedrooms.

 

[soob]

Why not a laundry chute?

 

[uncletater]

No thanks...Laundry in the basement is better for so many reasons, it's quieter not listening to the machines over your head, if there is an issue (overflow) it doesn't do as much damage, and the basement is less "usable" space than upstairs.

Clearly you do not do the laundry in your house. We should poll the wifes or those who do the laundry as to see how they feel about going up and down stairs with loads of laundry. You mention noise. Laundry does not take all day. Maybe a few hours at most. Start it, find something to do, change it over, find something to do, fold, done.

 

[MP&C]

Why not a laundry chute?

A chute typically doesn't go both directions. Hoofing loads of laundry UP the steps isn't bad on young folks, but gets much more of a burden as one gets older. Plan ahead. When she gets too old to carry the laundry for you, it will be your turn

 

[Kevin54]

When we were first looking for a house in the area we live in now, the one house I liked had a 5' wide hallway and the laundry room right across from the Master Bedroom. Close, convenient, and right where most of the dirty laundry generates from. Our house we have now, the bedrooms and bathrooms are all at one end and the laundry is at the opposite far end. We have a single story Ranch style home and the wife ******* about where it's at now.

I gave up space on the house garage twice since we have lived here. The first time was to expand the laundry room. Everything was put into a 8' x 10' room. Water heater, water softener with a huge external salt bin, and the washer and dryer. I opened the wall up and expanded out 4' into the garage and put the water heater, softener into there and added a bank of shelves. Later on I added another large closet that houses an upright freezer and a chest type freezer. To most people, they would think the house was originally built like that. It did shorten the space of the garage down some, but it's still 22' deep x 22' wide. Still a two car by todays standards. My wife is the only one that parks in the house garage anyways, because I have my garage. And we don't plan on moving anytime soon, so it's no huge deal. Plus the way they are built, other than the plumbing in the expanded laundry room, it could be all removed and gain a buttload of space if need be in a good days time and no one would know what was even there.

 

[justanengineer]

I am curious now if anyone has any more details on how much space and how they might do it given the above drawing and dimensions?

I would push the kitchen out into your deck with an extension. In my eyes you dont have a double deep garage but a comfortable 1.5 deep. Admittedly, according to many in these parts and my last landlord, you do, but I wouldnt consider it that.

Clearly you do not do the laundry in your house. We should poll the wifes or those who do the laundry as to see how they feel about going up and down stairs with loads of laundry. You mention noise. Laundry does not take all day. Maybe a few hours at most. Start it, find something to do, change it over, find something to do, fold, done.

Mine would vote for the basement, she made me put ours down there despite having a usable "nook" walled in between the garage and kitchen. Both had the appropriate wall connections so it didnt matter to me, and she built herself a sewing area in the nook so both areas ended up used. Her logic - 2-3 big baskets per week up/down isnt going to kill her, but having the upstairs noise would be bothersome since laundry is usually done at the most inappropriate time. She also wanted all of the non-kitchen/bath "utilities" downstairs and well out of sight of guests. The kitchen and bath are both on the main floor as they are pretty fancy "show pieces" but there isnt anything to show off about your laundry.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

I thought the discussion was about still owning your home when you die, not whether you actually die in your home.

Read the facts at the link I posted.

The odds are either the husband or wife will be in the nursing home.

With the very expensive cost of long term care in nursing homes, how do you think most couples end up paying for that cost?

They have to sell their home.

Sad but true.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

A chute typically doesn't go both directions. Hoofing loads of laundry UP the steps isn't bad on young folks, but gets much more of a burden as one gets older. Plan ahead. When she gets too old to carry the laundry for you, it will be your turn

Plan the remodel as if you will being doing the laundry from a wheelchair...the details will fall into place.

 

[cyamaha2007]

Oh man that sounds terrible. You are far nicer than i could ever be. Heck i have a 2000sqft detached shop and i wouldnt give a inch. I would phrase it like this, Sure you can take 100sqft of my garage if i can add 200sqft back to it. If you were asking to extend the garage into the house and loose a bedroom or office what would she say? Good luck